Disney dumps Narnia!

[hectorberlioz]

Linked here (http://www.cinematical.com/2008/12/24/disney-dumps-narnia/)

This means there won't be a Voyage of Dawn Treader for a while more.

Disney is such a wimp. First of all, they released Prince Caspian too early. You don't mess with the Indiana Jones competition. And Iron Man pulled in big too, unexpectedly. So that was their first problem. Secondly, Prince Caspian is the least familiar Narnia book, and most people don't have it at the top of their lists.

Oh well. My brother tells me that 20th Century Fox might pick it up. If so, they are probably better suited to co-produce. Though I see Fox as less friendly to the idea of making art, as opposed to profit.

[Midge]

I think you just ruined my Christmas, Hector!

*stomps around and mutters bad things about Disney*

[inked]

I suppose they want the equivalent of the Harry Potter draws?! THEN STICK TO THE BOOK (shouting intended)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The problem with the box office take is due solely to the re-make of PRINCE CASPIAN in modern political/teenage angst terms. They did NOT produce CS Lewis' work. Someone in the production, perhaps Douglas Gresham, wagged that they had "out-martialed Jack" - meaning that that they emphasized only martial aspects in the military sense of the term (see PLANET NARNIA by Michael Ward for more information on Mars and its donegality) - and "wrote a better story than Jack." Bah. Humbug.

I would suggest that the poor box office showing strongly suggests that parents did not think it a product of the Narnian and therefore would not take their children to see it. NO parents, no money. Lost opportunity due to squandered resource, in my opinion. And apparently in a lot of other people's opinions as expressed in their wallet survey.

I saw it precisely once in the theatre and was so disappointed that I didn't return for the paid-for-ten-times-in-theatre experience that was LWW. Perhaps Walden Media can learn a lesson if Disney cannot? STICK TO THE STORY AND DON'T CHANGE IT TO SUIT YOUR PATHETIC OPINION OF WHAT WOULD SELL. The books haven't suffered from that sort of hubris, have they? GET A CLUE, producers.

Better they not be done than the pathetic be done. BBC was better!

(That from a 35+ year reader of the books, mind you!)

[Tessar]

Could also be that people are getting a bit tired of fantasy stories with nothing but epic battles being released one right after the other :p.

[hectorberlioz]

Maybe. But I don't think they're much in the mood for more Gangster movies, overwrought dramas involving abortion, child rape or incest. Some of the so-called comedies are just as bad. You can't walk into a comedy without hearing most of the cursewords in the mythical Curseword Wardrobe.

Fantasy movies are all we have left.

Do I seem pessimistic? :p I have a toothache.

[Midge]

It just felt like there were certain things in both movies that could have been there, should have been there and weren't. Like when Lucy meets Mr. Tumnus for the first time, in the books, he drops his parcels and says, "Goodness gracious me!" [/chapter].

I sat there in the theater and waited and waited and waited for him to say it. Instead he runs like a pansy and hides behind a tree and doesn't say the line. That was one major disappointment. Such a little thing to put in, and adds so much integrity to the story. Kind of like PJ's sticking in "A shortcut to what?" "Mushrooms!" Shows that the people makin' the movie are actually reading the books to see what comes next.

Could be that people are getting tired of watching fantasy stories with nothing but epic battles which aren't even supposed to be there! :p:mad:

Plus they changed the dynamics of all the characters. Horrible movie-maker, that Adamson guy or whoever he is. I almost hope that this ruined his career but not really because that's a horrible thing to hope.

Hey, Merry Christmas!

[Varnafindë]

Perhaps people would have come back to watch again a movie with the noble High King Peter of the books, who "hasn't come here to take your place, you know, but to put you into it". Rather than the arrogant brat they made him into.

Still, it's very sad, and I still hope they get somebody else to finance it - perhaps somebody who will have learnt from Disney's mistakes.

I haven't been on NarniaWeb yet this morning - I wonder whet uproar there will be over there ...

[Alcuin]

Since Disney stripped out the heart of the story to be politically correct, perhaps they are not a good fit. Tolkien didn’t want his stories “Disneyfied”. Letter 13, 13 May 1937: It might be advisable … to let the Americans do what seems good to them – as long as it was possible … to veto anything from or influenced by the Disney studios (for all whose works I have a heartfelt loathing). He also denigrates Disney in Letter 202 written in 1957 and Letter 234 written in 1961: his dislike was not a passing fancy.

I personally like some of corporate Disney’s work; I think nothing ill of old Walt himself; but the company has certainly sacrificed itself to the avant-garde. But Lewis, I think, would have been horrified that his central, Christian allegory had been gutted from his work by a bunch of “soulless minions of orthodoxy (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/In_the_Cards_(episode))”.

[Mari]

:eek: But... but... ! :eek:
I want the rest of the films! *whines*
I wanna see 'The Last Battle' desperately. >_<

[GrayMouser]

While the whole rivalry between Caspian and Peter was ridiculous, I'm not sure how big a draw for the family audience it would have been to make the center of the plot the kids walking the wrong way through the trees, then turning around and walking back again, all the while arguing about whether they could or could not see Aslan.

As I said before it came out, a big problem is that Prince Caspian was always the weakest of the series- it's basically TLTW&TW redone with the Magic of the White Witch replaced by dull political wrangling, and the treason of Edmund by the skepticism of Susan.

Hoping that they come through with the wonders of the Dawn Treader....to boldly go where no man has etc.

[hectorberlioz]

I think GM is right. Prince Caspian was too much like LWW. Tough not even the very faithful BBC production included Aslan's run that takes place at the end of the book. That would have been unique and special. The movie is following too many general movie cliches, and not enough uniqueness from the books.

[Varnafindë]

Hoping that they come through with the wonders of the Dawn Treader....to boldly go where no man has etc.

Hoping that they get somebody to finance it at all. I really would like to see Dawn Treader - especially if they dare to explore its wonders.

[hectorberlioz]

Yeah Dawn Treader is the one I would like to see most, and then HAHB and TMN.

[inked]

Well, having received the film on DVD for Christmas, I finally watched the BEHIND THE SCENES thingies.

From the mouth of the director himself comes two stunning statements that enable a realization of why the movie did so poorly domestically. The first is that Adamson connected on the emotional growth of the characters as the story line. The second is that he felt he had to outdo the first film, LWW, because that was what everyone expected.

First, Adamson missed the story for his conception of emotional growth. If you see the omitted scenes sections, you can be thankful they were omitted because they veer from the story arc of Lewis in predictable Hollywood manners and would have only corroded the presentation further. This substitution of the director's story arc for the actual story is the basic problem with the storyline. It is the foundational error which made all the other deviations plausible. Adherence to the text story with much less "seizing the opportunity" to EXPAND the DIRECTOR's misconceptions would have produced a more coherent movie. Watch the extras and Adamson's remarks about the deleted scenes to get a good grasp of these strategic errors.

Secondly, Adamson was far too focused on attempting to outdo LWW in terms of "movie magic" and hence the driven need for excess of martiality in the strictly military sense. The warlike additions of the raid on Miraz's castle are specially telling, I think.

Thus, the huge budget was spent in a vaunting pride attempt to outdo himself on the big screen, plain and simple. That attempt cost large amounts of money, altered the story, and failed. Hopefully the next folks working with Adamson will get him to return to the storyline of whatever project it is. For, if he is like most directors, he will attempt to cover this "failure" with a splashier next effort. If his conception of whatever is as MISconceived as this effort, they'll certainly "lose" money too.

Perhaps I'm a bit simple, but frankly if you make more than it took to do the film, I believe that is called profit. If you happen to make 2 to 1 returns, that's a one hundred percent profit in my books. Of course, if you think you have to make an 8 to 1 return, try the stockmarket before the bubble burst... or has Hollywood lined up for a bailout because it can only make 2 to 1 returns?:mad:

[hectorberlioz]

Perhaps I'm a bit simple, but frankly if you make more than it took to do the film, I believe that is called profit. If you happen to make 2 to 1 returns, that's a one hundred percent profit in my books. Of course, if you think you have to make an 8 to 1 return, try the stockmarket before the bubble burst... or has Hollywood lined up for a bailout because it can only make 2 to 1 returns?:mad:

:p Yes, apparently all those Hollywood actors have fallen on hard times ;). Have to eat rice and beans now. No more caviar for Gwyneth Paltrow, no sirreee! :p

[Mari]

If he was trying to outdo the first as you say Inked, I think that's kinda silly. They were making a new film based on a book. Rather than making sure it stays linked to the first film, he ought to have made sure it resembled the book enough so people could make that connection for themselves.
And there is of course a big difference between characterdevelopment and characterrewriting... :rolleyes:

I is not pleased.

[inked]

Those are his words. Rent or buy or borrow the DVD and watch the extras sections. I am not making this up. The whole concern was to try to be epic and more-over-the-top than before. Just the sections on choosing locations will give you the sense. All the portrayals are, of course, positive. What else would his employees say? But one gets the sense of the overwhelming need to outdo LWW rather than tell the story. No doubt character development occurs in PC, but to make that the primary focus of the movie totally distorted the actual story by trying to tell it in contemporary Hollywood idioms of excess. The results speak for themselves...and very loudly, I might note.

Did no one have the gonads to tell Adamson that he had totally missed the boat on the story and the need to exceed?

We have the answer before out eyes, don't we?

[Tessar]

Inked, I would imagine that the investors put a great deal of pressure on the studios, and they're trying to get those 8/1 returns rather than settling for a 2/1 return.

[Midge]

Ugh. I LOVE Prince Caspian. It is one of my favorite books ever, and they totally had to ruin the movie. I do not think I will EVER tire of talking about how badly they stunk it up.

I am sincerely thinking about emailing Walden media and offering my expertise as a book-lover to make sure the movie follows the book. I understand why some things have to change about book-to-film type of things, but there was SO much that didn't need it in PC.

[cee2lee2]

We just watched the movie last night (bought the DVD without all the extras). It was an OK movie, but it was not Prince Caspian. Then I reread the book this morning and was so disappointed thinking about the movie it could have been if the book had been followed more closely.

I hope the rest of the books get made into movies but if this is an example, I'd rather not go further. I"ll stick with my BBC videotapes.

[hectorberlioz]

We just watched the movie last night (bought the DVD without all the extras). It was an OK movie, but it was not Prince Caspian. Then I reread the book this morning and was so disappointed thinking about the movie it could have been if the book had been followed more closely.

I hope the rest of the books get made into movies but if this is an example, I'd rather not go further. I"ll stick with my BBC videotapes.

It is quite shameful that a major movie studio couldn't do better at sticking to the books as the BBC series did. And they did it well. I still love the BBC Dawn Treader and Silver Chair. And if you ask me, there's no outdoing the Puddleglum in that version.

[cee2lee2]

And if you ask me, there's no outdoing the Puddleglum in that version.


Agreed! Tom Baker was gloriously glum!

[Varnafindë]

They made one major mistake about Puddleglum, though - at one point, the darkness of the cave and the Sunless Sea became too much for him and he had a nervous breakdown.

Marshwiggles do not have nervous breakdowns.

Misery doesn't become too much for them, because they have already anticipated it and been gloriously glum about it.

[Midge]

Ah.. apparently I am out of the loop here.. I have never seen the BBC Narnia films. Huh.

*loops a rope around the figmental neck of the Rule*

[Tessar]

You should really look into them, Midge... Maybe you'd be underwhelmed by them vs. today's tv shows with effects and such... But I really, really loved them as a kid, and I still do. To me, they're so much better than either of the Disney ones are... Really, really fun movies :).

[hectorberlioz]

Yes, I grew up with them as well. Supposedly a BBC Horse and His Boy was made at some point, but they never showed it.

[cee2lee2]

You should really look into them, Midge... Maybe you'd be underwhelmed by them vs. today's tv shows with effects and such... But I really, really loved them as a kid, and I still do. To me, they're so much better than either of the Disney ones are... Really, really fun movies :).

I agree, Midge. I never knew Narnia as a kid, first meeting the stories when I was in college. And it was after that that I saw the BBC shows. Even without all of the "special effects" the stories come through brilliantly.

[hectorberlioz]

Narniaweb.Com has some news about the Disney/Walden dispute. As I suspected, Disney was being irresponsible about the release date. The producer basically reiterates what we've discussed in this thread: release date, least-favorite Narnia book, etc. Here's the kicker line though...

"We also made a slightly more adult, darker story, and we shouldn't have."


Now they listen...:p Link here...

http://www.narniaweb.com/news.asp?id=2042&dl=21818770
http://www.narniaweb.com/news.asp?id=2042&dl=21818770

[Varnafindë]

Now they listen...:p Link here...

http://www.narniaweb.com/news.asp?id=2042&dl=21818770
http://www.narniaweb.com/news.asp?id=2042&dl=21818770

I noticed that comment too - and the NarniaWebbers could have told them all along that they were making a mistake.
Tried to tell them, even.

[nasuada]

i myself like the movie alot!but i think they can team with a better studio then disney.i heard that they might go with twentieth century fox.and actually i reread the book after i watched the movie and they have alot of word for word in it,they follow the book pretty well.

[ayra]

The whole movie was a rip-off. IF they had followed the book and IF they had TRIED to do a good job on the characters and such, THEN they might have gotten not only a better movie, but a bigger audience. :mad:

The part about the witch scared my little sibs and I didn't like the battle in the castle b/c it was not in the book, it was sad, and it made peter and the rest of his family look like they had given up on Aslan. They tried a do-it-youselfer and it failed miserably.

As you can tell, I did not like the movie b/c I am a die-hard follow-the-book-if-there-is-one person. :rolleyes:

[nasuada]

for the movie,they had to make it more exciting.i love the book and i love when movies follow the book,but they had to put some more action into it

[brownjenkins]

Lewis was never that much of a storyteller from a character sense, he was more thematic. That works fine among a reader base that identifies with your theme, but doesn't come across so well in movies.

Caspian was actually a decent movie... my kids liked it more than the first, and they haven't read any of the books, but it was untimately as shallow as the books are.

[inked]

Yeah, BJ, shallow enough to have sold over 100 million copies in 41 languages!

per wiki... (type in CS Lewis and have a go, old boy)...
"The Chronicles of Narnia is a series of seven fantasy novels for children and is considered a classic of children's literature. Written between 1949 and 1954 and illustrated by Pauline Baynes, the series is Lewis' most popular work having sold over 100 million copies in forty-one languages (Kelly 2006) (Guthmann 2005). It has been adapted several times, complete or in part, for radio, television, stage, and cinema."

on LWW...
"Time magazine included the novel in its TIME 100 Best English-language Novels from 1923 to 2005.[1]"

British Book Awards...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Book_Awards

and other signs of their shallowness that undoubtedly limit them in their appeal!

:p

By the by, you ought to get a copy of PLANET NARNIA by Michael Ward and read it so as to further substantiate your allegation of shallowness by refuting it.

or, social commentary today by the Space Trilogy at
http://culture11.com/article/36137

or, The Magician's Book
(reviewed here http://www.narniafans.com/archives/1660) in which the shallow books read as a child still haunt the imagination of this person authroing a book in response to the shallowness.

I could go on but I shan't. You have to do some things for yourself.:p

[hectorberlioz]

Lewis was never that much of a storyteller from a character sense, he was more thematic. That works fine among a reader base that identifies with your theme, but doesn't come across so well in movies.


Well that's just nonsense, seeing as how successful the BBC versions were in translating book to screen.

[nasuada]

The Chronicles of Narnia are the best books in the world!they are not shallow.

[ayra]

To be honest, the movie was shallower, (if thats a word) than the book.
Peter and all the other main characters in the book were much different in personality and how they went about securing Caspian's throne from Miraz.

The book is good enough for adults to read and enjoy, not to mention kids read and understand. Which is not that easy to do in the same book.:rolleyes:

[Alcuin]

JRR Tolkien to C. A. Furth at Allen & Unwin, his publishers, 13 May 1937, about publication in the United States and possible movie treatments of The Hobbit. This is from Letter 13 from Letters of JRR Tolkien.

It might be advisable ... to let the Americans do what seems good to them – as long as it was possible ... to veto anything from or influenced by the Disney studios (for all whose works I have a heartfelt loathing).

[GrayMouser]

Yeah, BJ, shallow enough to have sold over 100 million copies in 41 languages!

per wiki... (type in CS Lewis and have a go, old boy)...
"The Chronicles of Narnia is a series of seven fantasy novels for children and is considered a classic of children's literature. Written between 1949 and 1954 and illustrated by Pauline Baynes, the series is Lewis' most popular work having sold over 100 million copies in forty-one languages (Kelly 2006) (Guthmann 2005). It has been adapted several times, complete or in part, for radio, television, stage, and cinema."

I'm not sure if I'd want to go on numbers of copies sold as a guide to depth...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_fiction_authors

on LWW...
"Time magazine included the novel in its TIME 100 Best English-language Novels from 1923 to 2005.[1]"

Surprisingly good choices...Ubik, Neuromancer, Dog Soldiers, Snow Crash, The Sot-Weed Factor...

British Book Awards...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Book_Awards

Yep, up there with Catherine Cookson, Spike Milligan and Michael Moore.

and other signs of their shallowness that undoubtedly limit them in their appeal!

:p

By the by, you ought to get a copy of PLANET NARNIA by Michael Ward and read it so as to further substantiate your allegation of shallowness by refuting it.

or, social commentary today by the Space Trilogy at
http://culture11.com/article/36137

or, The Magician's Book
(reviewed here http://www.narniafans.com/archives/1660) in which the shallow books read as a child still haunt the imagination of this person authroing a book in response to the shallowness.

I could go on but I shan't. You have to do some things for yourself.:p

Of course, speaking of sales and awards, Phillip Pullman has sold 15 million copies in only ten years, and, for awards

The Amber Spyglass won the 2001 Whitbread Book of the Year award, a prestigious British literary award. This is the first time that such an award has been bestowed on a book from their "children's literature" category.

The first volume, Northern Lights, won the Carnegie Medal for children's fiction in the UK in 1995.[9] In 2007 the judges of the CILIP Carnegie Medal for children's literature selected it as one of the ten most important children's novels of the previous 70 years. In June 2007 it was voted, in an online poll, as the best Carnegie Medal winner in the seventy-year history of the award, the Carnegie of Carnegies[10][11].

The Observer cites Northern Lights as one of the 100 best novels.[12]

.......
On 25 May 2005 Pullman received the Swedish government's Astrid Lindgren Memorial Award for children's and youth literature (sharing it with Japanese illustrator Ryōji Arai).[13] Swedes regard this prize as second only to the Nobel Prize in Literature; it has a value of 5 million Swedish Kronor or approximately £385,000.

The trilogy came third in the 2003 BBC's Big Read, a national poll of viewers' favourite books, after The Lord of the Rings and Pride and Prejudice (the only entries in the "top ten" written before 1978).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Dark_Materials#Awards_and_recognition

Which you characterised as "notoriously" failing to compete....

And lest we forget, one fairly eminent critic who heartily shared brownjenkin's assessment was...Professor JRR Tolkien.

[hectorberlioz]

Actually the first two Pullman books were pretty darned good. Wonderful plot, lots of new imagery...it was the weird, twisted, preachy third one that made my stomach turn.

[Mari]

True, that. :(

[inked]

MY, My, my, Philip Pullman the anti-Lewis -as he is known in England- has sold 15 million copies in a decade and his movie bombed, too.

I guess there is some other factor in his case.

I cannot comment on his books, not having read them. However, I have read Mr. Pullman's commentary on Lewis through the years and am not impressed. He seems to think that only PP's views count! I have read speculation that PP is the inspiration for Gilderoy Lockhart in another wildly successful series about a boy wizard, though, so perhaps other authors have been more perceptive about his work than I can be!;)

[GrayMouser]

MY, My, my, Philip Pullman the anti-Lewis -as he is known in England- has sold 15 million copies in a decade and his movie bombed, too.

I guess there is some other factor in his case.



Lewis: 120 million in 55 years.

Pullman: 17 million in 15 years.(updated figures)

So, let's see, that works out to 17 x 3.66= 62 million in the same span- about half, but overall not bad- plus of course, he has a sequel coming out...;)

Oh, and when a Pullman movie bombs it's the fault of the book, but when a Lewis movie bombs it's the fault of the studio?

Yeah, certainly one other factor is that you have major religious organizations in the largest market relentlessly promoting one and calling for boycotts of the other, demanding it be taken out of public libraries, denouncing it from pulpits, talk radio, and TV programs etc.

As I said above, I don't think popularity is much a sign of quality- look at McDonald's and Harry Potter- but it's surprising that Pullman has done as well in America as he has, considering all the denunciations coming from people who haven't even read the book. :eek:

Maybe you should consider giving it a try- you might find that ideology doesn't always trump literary quality, as some of us atheists who love Lewis' story-telling have discovered.

[hectorberlioz]

Lewis: 100 million in 55 years.

Pullman: 15 million in 10 years.

So, let's see, that works out to 15 x 5.5= 82.5 million in the same span- slightly under, but overall not bad.

Oh, and when a Pullman movie bombs it's the fault of the book, but when a Lewis movie bombs it's the fault of the studio?

Yeah, certainly one other factor is that you have major religious organizations in the largest market relentlessly promoting one and calling for boycotts of the other, demanding it be taken out of public libraries, denouncing it from pulpits, talk radio, and TV programs etc.

As I said above, I don't think popularity is much a sign of quality- look at McDonald's and Harry Potter- but it's surprising that Pullman has done as well in America as he has, considering all the denunciations coming from people who haven't even read the book. :eek:

Maybe you should consider giving it a try- you might find that ideology doesn't always trump literary quality, as some of us atheists who love Lewis' story-telling have discovered.

You've got a good point there GM, especially about the movies;). However we haven't explored if Pullman's books were popular before The Amber Spyglass, after it, or if it was the same level of popularity.

Like I said, I thought the first two were great. But anyone reading the third one who isn't already of Pullman's mindset is going to go "WHOA!" and put it down, or be disgusted and hate it.

I thin Pullman would be more popular (and this applies to atheists in general) if he spent less time bashing CSL. The way he integrated his beliefs in his book was quite good (excepting TAS), and even touching (The Subtle Knife that cuts Will, who must face the reality of the pain rather than pretend it doesn't exist, which represents trying to face reality and not live in a fantasy world with God etc etc).

And anyone reading Pullman's criticisms of CSL is going to think he is going over the top...

When CSL disagreed with Arthur C. Clarke, he wrote him a nice letter discussing his disagreements. You can read these in the volumes published of CSL letters.

Pullman disagreeing with CSL: What a@#@%@!!!! I ##%#^&^@ hate him!

:p

[inked]

GM, you'll have to tell me if Pullman's movie followed his book. I can't tell you since I have neither read the book(s) nor seen the movie. Although Lewis' books have stood the test of time and audience appeal -which fact your facts reveal- we have yet to see about PP's.

I have read PP's criticisms of Narnia. I have read Narnia. I can evaluate those.

And PC the movie was NOT PC the book. But I have delivered on that elsewhere and feel no need to do a PP and re-iterate my iteration of my idea.

On the other hand, I have long argued on this site and in multiple threads for the greatness of Harry Potter!:D

[Mari]

:)
20th Century Fox to pick up Dawn Treader? (http://www.narniafans.com/archives/3269)

[Varnafindë]

:)
20th Century Fox to pick up Dawn Treader? (http://www.narniafans.com/archives/3269)

No need for the question mark any more - NarniaWeb says that it's official! :)

the goal is to get back to the magical aspects present in the first "Narnia" pic but mostly absent from "Prince Caspian."

I like that :) :) :)

[brownjenkins]

Yeah, BJ, shallow enough to have sold over 100 million copies in 41 languages!

I didn't say they were shallow, just more thematic than character-driven.

[inked]

Delighted to hear that someone else has picked on up the movie. Now, if they just follow the proven successful books rather than hollywoodization or disneyfication or other proven routes to nonsuccess! We shall see.......:cool:

[Mari]

No need for the question mark any more - NarniaWeb says that it's official! :)


Really? Oh good :)

[Midge]

I just want everyone to know that I got a-hold of a BBC version of "The Silver Chair".

The effects were really cheesy, you were right about that. But it was so perfect as to the book (except for the end... it wasn't night or winter and there was no dance or snowball!).

The only thing I didn't like about it was that it was the kind of thing where the actors think that passionate acting involves yelling all the time. There were a lot of times I thought they overreacted because they were yelling. But you guys were right; they are good movies (if the others are as good as that one, which I'm assuming they are!).

[cee2lee2]

Glad you enjoyed The Silver Chair. I need to make some time to watch my videos again.

[hectorberlioz]

Glad you enjoyed The Silver Chair. I need to make some time to watch my videos again.

Speaking of which, the DVDs are so cheap these days and I still haven't bought them!

I just want everyone to know that I got a-hold of a BBC version of "The Silver Chair".

The effects were really cheesy, you were right about that. But it was so perfect as to the book (except for the end... it wasn't night or winter and there was no dance or snowball!).

The only thing I didn't like about it was that it was the kind of thing where the actors think that passionate acting involves yelling all the time. There were a lot of times I thought they overreacted because they were yelling. But you guys were right; they are good movies (if the others are as good as that one, which I'm assuming they are!).

The yelling---you'll get used to it:p. But yeah, wasn't puddleglum just great? :D I thought so.

[Midge]

He was definitely my favorite. I LOVED the seashells in his hair. It took me a long time to figure out they weren't horns. :rolleyes: Go figure.

He was definitely my favorite. I wish that he'd had just a bit more ... in-your-face-ness when he stuck his hand in the fire. "Oh, yeah? Well..."

[hectorberlioz]

Did you notice how much the Witch yells? :p. You gotta see LWW. Even better for the screaming feature ;).

[Varnafindë]

I've got all the DVDs, but I haven't watched any other than than LWW - so I haven't watched The Silver Chair since I watched it on TV years back.

I should watch it again, in order to be able to explain why I was more disappointed with each of the series ...

I suppose Puddleglum was basically OK, but - as I said in an earlier post - they had given him a completely unnecessary and out-of-character nervous breakdown. Marshwiggles don't have nervous breakdowns. They just don't.

I'm afraid that's the thing I remember most from BBC's Silver Chair ...

[Midge]

His nervous breakdown? Oh, in the cave. I remember that. I was confused... I thought that I possibly just skimmed over it all the times I read the book. I've been known to do that. I had always imagined his skin being a muddy green color, instead of a normal skin color with green scales. And I was deeply offended when Jill and Eustace got all grossed out at his hands.

The prince was much less congenial and more creepy than I pictured him, and why on earth was his chamber encrusted in cobwebs? That made NO sense to me.

[Noldori]

Really? Oh good :)


Thank God! LWW was pretty darn good in my opinion, and Prince Caspian... well, let's just say that I was NOT pleased with Disney after that.

I just hope they keep on Harry Gregson-Williams for the soundtrack... I think his Narnia soundtracks are brilliant!

[nasuada]

I agree, the music is awesome! Well, now that Fox has hold of Narnia we can all sleep peacefully:p:D

[Varnafindë]

Yes, and Ben Barnes has already started growing his hair long for filming in July, because he'd rather not have to use hair extensions this time. :D

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/ben-barnes-prince-of-hearts-1709371.html

[me9996]

Hmm... On the original topic of this thread, I'd think disney dropped the Dawn Treader because they couldn't fit an epic battle in :D...
Nah, but it had bothered me that they put so much into the epic battles and now they're going on a slow boat to the edge of the world, I wondered how they would handle it and now I know.

P.S.
I didn't follow the link at the starting post, I very seldom follow links like that anymore, nothing personal, I'm just paraniod :)

P.P.S.
Not clinicly paraniod...

[hectorberlioz]

So, according to Narniaweb, filming has officially started on "Voyage." Any last wishes before they film the crucial scenes?

Me: I hope they don't bloat any scenes into being more important than they are. Probably the three most important scenes are: when the kids are captured and sold into slavery, the island where Eustace becomes the dragon, and finally the lamb and the lion. Then again, the wizard in the house, and the gold-turning water island....well, they're all pretty important now that I think of it. I hope they do justice to each, and hopefully realize this time that when it comes to "battle scenes," less can be more, and the author's intentions are good enough as they are.

[cee2lee2]

I am completely in agreement with your wishes about the battle scenes.

[inked]

You guys kill me! Expecting Hollywood to get "less is more" and that an author's intentions count?


Still one may wish upon a falling star!

[cee2lee2]

You guys kill me! Expecting Hollywood to get "less is more" and that an author's intentions count?


Still one may wish upon a falling star!

Wishing......................:D

[nasuada]

And Hoping!!!!!!!!!!!

[Midge]

When did we hear that they're doing "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader"???

[hectorberlioz]

Thay've been at since last year :). They switched to 20th Cen. Fox, from Disney. Disney wasn't happy because there were other blockbusters that beat out PC.

[Midge]

well, I knew that Disney dumped it (see title of this thread). I didn't know someone else had picked it up. I left in February. That's not "since last year"...

Hi, by the way.

[hectorberlioz]

Hi back to you :). What's been going on lately?

It's last year to me :p. I was still in school then, and now approacheth another semester! That's a "year" in my book ;).

[Varnafindë]

That's a "year" in my book ;).

How many years old are you then? :eek:

[Midge]

Haha... Good question, Varna... actually, the answer might explain a lot about Hector...

;)

[hectorberlioz]

http://www.aintitcool.com/images2009/dt3.jpg

From: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/42189

Majestic, no? :)

[hectorberlioz]

http://www.aintitcool.com/images2009/dt3.jpg

Majestic, no? :)

[Varnafindë]

Indeed - and notice the lamp in the top of one of the masts. I guess King Caspian had a certain historical model for making that lamp, don't you agree?

[hectorberlioz]

The lamp was a great touch. :)

In newer news, here's Ben Barnes (Caspian) talking about VDT:
"There are some big pitched battles in this one, swords and action," he reveals when pondering his forthcoming adventure, "although this film is more about magic, creatures and discovery. I am looking forward to seeing Caspian a few years later, as a king, playing a character that isn't so vulnerable and fragile this time around. And playing a king, I think that has to be pretty cool. The king is in charge, for a start, although then the kids turn up and they kind of [steal his thunder] a bit!

"But I am looking forward to it. After all, as a kid you dream of wielding swords in a fantasy adventure."
From:http://www.narniaweb.com/news.asp?id=2305&dl=24628925

Sooo...."big pitched battles," yet more about "magic" and "discoveries."

[GrayMouser]

Big pitched battles?:eek:

Where? The only place I could think for them to possibly squeeze one in would be in the taking of the Lone Isles, but that's right at the beginning- not usually where you want them.

Let's see, a secret Calormene fleet has been following the Dawn Treader to ferret out the Secret Power hidden at the World's End. Catching up to the them at Aslan's Country, a huge pitched battle follows in which the Sea Serpent reappears, flanked by the Sea People. A battle fleet of Monopods comes paddling over the horizon to the rescue, but meanwhile the Evil Monsters from the Isle of Dreams make their appearance.

Just when all seems lost, Aslan appears and calls on Ramandu and his daughter, who come blazing in using their star power. Alas, it proves too much for Ramandu who burns out, leaving a touching death scene with his daughter, who is then swept into Caspian's arms....

[paul]

unfortunately the Narnia Chronicles have to live up to LOTR . And Disney is not the company to do it . They want big bucks return.
Maybe CS Lewis was right in not letting these tales be made into a moview when he was alive. I hope he & Aslan would visit the Disney exc's that approved this mess.

[Varnafindë]

unfortunately the Narnia Chronicles have to live up to LOTR . And Disney is not the company to do it . They want big bucks return.
Maybe CS Lewis was right in not letting these tales be made into a moview when he was alive. I hope he & Aslan would visit the Disney exc's that approved this mess.

What do think of the newest one, then, not financed by Disney?
Does Voyage of the Dawn Treader - financed by Fox - live up to your standards?
(They are all made by Walden Media, though, not by Disney or Fox.)

[inked]

News:

http://www.fandango.com/movieblog/scoop-this-new-narnia-clash-of-titans-2-and-rise-of-apes-660806.html

The Magician's Nephew is next............

[Varnafindë]

... hopefully.
"We are starting to talk to Fox and talk to the C.S. Lewis estate now" - i.e. nothing is greenlit yet, but The Magician's Nephew is what Walden Media wants to make next. If possible.

[Midge]

Big pitched battles?:eek:

Where? The only place I could think for them to possibly squeeze one in would be in the taking of the Lone Isles, but that's right at the beginning- not usually where you want them.

Let's see, a secret Calormene fleet has been following the Dawn Treader to ferret out the Secret Power hidden at the World's End. Catching up to the them at Aslan's Country, a huge pitched battle follows in which the Sea Serpent reappears, flanked by the Sea People. A battle fleet of Monopods comes paddling over the horizon to the rescue, but meanwhile the Evil Monsters from the Isle of Dreams make their appearance.

Just when all seems lost, Aslan appears and calls on Ramandu and his daughter, who come blazing in using their star power. Alas, it proves too much for Ramandu who burns out, leaving a touching death scene with his daughter, who is then swept into Caspian's arms....

This was not that far off from what actually happened in VDT. Except for the part about the battle fleet of Monopods and the Secret Power at the World's End... But the rest of it is similar... I hated that movie so much.

[Midge]

This would officially be my letter of complaint to Walden Media or the directors or whoever needed it.

"Dear Walden Media,

Hello. My name is Midge and I am writing this to you because I've heard that you might be planning on making another of the Chronicles of Narnia movies.

I want to start off by saying that I am so hopeful everytime I hear another movie is coming out. I couldn't sit still the first time I saw a trailer for "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe." I grabbed my husband and said, "WE HAVE TO SEE THAT MOVIE!"

And it was a huge success. There are a couple of reasons for that. One of the reasons is that it stayed reasonably within the plotline of the book. The other is that there were tons and tons of Narnia fans who couldn't wait to see the wonders of the book mixed with the magic of the screen.

I am writing this letter out of a desire to finally see that happen. C. S. Lewis wrote books for children. They aren't deep books. They don't have a lot of backstory that is difficult to portray in a movie. They are written to keep children's attention.

So what I'm so confused about is why you keep changing so much about the movies. "Prince Caspian" was merely a harbinger of the destruction that is to come. There are two big problems I have with your movies. First: your habit of adding scenes which have no relevance to the stories. The night-raid on the castle in "Prince Caspian" is an example of this. It's very annoying and most unnecessary. There are some scenes I can understand and even enjoy, but others are just there for the whole showiness of the thing.

The other issue is much more subtle. Lewis is clear in the books that Aslan is a God-figure. Now, I'm not telling you that you have to associate him with a Christian God or Buddha or Zeus or any god in particular. But give him the deity that he deserves - the deity that Lewis authored into him. You have scenes that are nearly to the line like they are in the book, but with one word changed that strips Aslan of any God-ness that he might have.

For instance, in the book, Lucy meets Aslan in the wood and asks him what would have happened if she'd followed him. He says, "To know what would have happened? No one is ever told that." - Meaning of course that he doesn't tell people what would have happened.

The movies strip him of that Omniscience (a character of most gods) by having him say, "To know what would have happened? We can never know that." - including him in the unknowing.

Give Aslan back his deity and I'll watch whatever movies you put out. My suggestion would be for you to hire an actual avid Lewis fan (I know that you have Douglas Gresham helping, but his input doesn't seem very valuable - he's let your directors get away with a lot of things that probably have Mr. Lewis turning over in his grave) who can truly advise you on what would turn other Lewis readers away and what would make the movies great. I can promise you this - people who haven't read the books are going to love whatever you put in a movie, even if it's actually what is in the books. Hire someone who can tell you that if you want a great battle scene, the retaking of the Lone Islands is a beautiful spot for it (I am not an action-flick person, but even I was disappointed with the Lone Islands scene), or that the un-dragoning of Eustace is much more important than that Island where dream come true or even more important than the Island of the Dufflepuds.

I, of course, would love to volunteer for that job, but I have no expectation that would get it. However, I have almost no hope for any more Narnia movies you make unless you change how you decide the storyline, you will only make movies that will disappoint all the people you're trying to target by making these movies.

And if you don't do this, please do all of us Lewis fans a favor and stop associating your movies with his books. "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader" is a tarnish on the Narnia world.

Thank you very much!"

Now, I really actually want to send this... however, this kind of thing usually requires advisors. Does anyone else agree with this?

[GrayMouser]

They did put in the bit about " you know me by another name in your world", which I was waiting to see if they would.

I think with Magician's Nephew they want to push Tilda Swinton as the White Witch.

Means they're going to have to find a new Eustace if they're going to wait four years for SC.

[Varnafindë]

The night-raid on the castle in "Prince Caspian" is an example of this. It's very annoying and most unnecessary.

A funny thing I found is that when they meet on the Dancing Lawn and some want to eat first, and the moles want to dig trenches, and the fauns want to dance first, but Caspian and the Centaurs overrule them all and have a War council, which is what they need - then what Reepicheep wants to do before he is overruled with the others, is to attack Miraz in his castle that same night. So maybe they got the idea from the book after all. Only they weren't overruled ...

(I know that you have Douglas Gresham helping, but his input doesn't seem very valuable - he's let your directors get away with a lot of things that probably have Mr. Lewis turning over in his grave)

I don't think there's anything wrong with his input - it's just that they don't listen enough to him. They don't need a new advisor, they need to listen to the one they've got. I think he's loyal to the franchise - and I guess he has to be - and that's why he doesn't tell us about all the battles he's lost over how to make the movies.

Now, I really actually want to send this... however, this kind of thing usually requires advisors. Does anyone else agree with this?

I don't think you should even suggest yourself as an advisor, it might suggest the wrong attitude. And I'm not sure you should choose that wording about Douglas Gresham either - it's probably not that "he's let your directors get away with" anything - I guess he just doesn't have the power to stop it.

If you are to send it at all, I think you should rewrite it ...

[Midge]

Yes. I get very excitable (as fierce as a dragon in a pinch, maybe?) about this thing. Even when I wrote it, I realized it was unreasonable. :D

And I guess I didn't think of it that way - that the movie-makers wouldn't listen to Douglas Gresham. I assumed he was listening to them and saying, "Okay." It was very unfair of me.