Old Norse and Tolkien's Middle Earth

[Coffeehouse]

Okay my first attempt failed.. the crazy University network sent me back to another page and deleted all I had written! Ugh!!!

So, basically I'm starting from scratch here. Being a Norwegian I'm really interested in what aspects of Middle Earth are influenced and sometimes direct 'borrowing' from Old Norse mythology, language and geography, which basically means everything that was written, believed, spoken and whatnot in Norway and (a Norwegian colony) Iceland, and to some extent Sweden (and Denmark).

I've always seen similarities in some of the names in Tolkien's works and things that appear in Old Norse (I'm going to use that term pretty loosely instead of saying Old Norse language or Old Norse mythology, but simply Old Norse). Already I've given some examples in another thread, can't remember which, but here I want to go a bit deeper. Basically what sparked my interest was that I came across, (while doing some break-from-regular-studies-activity here at the University library. Who loves being a student? I do:cool:), a poem in the Poetic Edda (that's a collection of poems and stories written in Norway and then in Iceland as Norwegians made their way across the sea to settle there), called the Voluspå. It is about the prophecy of the Vala(;)) on the Ragnarok (which is basically the Final Destiny of the Gods in Old Norse, an apocalyptic battle that shook Midgard (directly translated: Middle Earth).

Here's an interesting part of the Voluspå:
"Then went all the powers
to their judgement-seats,
the all-holy gods,
and thereon held council,
who should of the dwarfs
the race create,
from the sea-giant's blood
and livid bones.

Then was Mötsognir
created greatest
of all the dwarfs,
and Durin second;
there in man's likeness
they created many
dwarfs from the earth,
as Durin said.

Nýi and Nidi,
Nordri and Sudri,
Asutri and Vestri,
Althiöf, Dvalin
Nár and Náin,
Niping, Dáin,
Bivör, Bavör,
Bömbur, Nori,
An and Anar,
Ai, Miödvitnir,

Veig and Gandálf,
Vindálf, Thráin,
Thekk and Thorin,
Thror, Vitr, and Litr,
Núr and Nýrád,
Regin and Rádsvid.
Now of the dwarfs I have
rightly told.

Fili, Kili,
Fundin, Nali,
Hepti, Vili,
Hanar, Svior,
Billing, Bruni,
Bild, Búri,
Frár, Hornbori,
Fræg and Lóni,
Aurvang, Iari,
Eikinskialdi. (Eikinskialdi = Oakenshield)

Time ´tis of the dwarfs
in Dvalin´s band,
to the sons of men,
to Lofar up to reckon,
those who came forth
from the world´s rock,
earth´s foundation,
to Iora´s plains.

If I'm not wrong here, this part includes Gandalf and all the thirteen dwarves that went with Bilbo Baggins to the Lonely Mountain in the Hobbit! Fascinating:)

[Valandil]

Yes - I don't recall where (maybe in one of his letters), but JRRT says something like that about the source of those names, including Gandalf's.

[Ilfirin]

Its no unknown secret that Tolkein borrowed from the Old Norse.

In fact an old portrait of Odin(One of the primary Gods in Old Norse) known as 'Odin the wanderer' looks like Gandalf's long lost brother. Obviously Elves and dwarfs are directly influenced from Old Norse, though his depictions were different, especially in the case of the former.

I think even Turin was partially based on a character from 'The Volsung Saga' from the Old Norse.Dagor Dagorath or 'The Last Battle' , mentioned as 'The Last Battle and the Day of Doom' in Akallabêth is clearly inspired from Ragnarok.

I think he equally borrowed from Finnish Mythology as well. One look at the names in Kalevala(a Finnish Epic), and there will be no doubts about the origins of Quenya.

Mythological works usually are not from a single person or source, its something that trickles down through generations and undergoes a lot of additions.

Though inspired and borrowed from various works, coming up with something like this all alone is nothing short of greatness.

*Takes a bow*

Ilfirin

Coffeehouse: No dude, Im not Norwegian. Im an Indian.

[Coffeehouse]

Really? As in the world's largest democracy India?

Yeah, the Elvish language seems to be primarily influenced by Finnish.

I take the view that Tolkien has honoured all of these mythologies and old and modern languages (Norwegian included:)) by producing the most eloquent mythology ever made. Tolkien's world combines all the cool parts with his own touch for beauty.

[Ilfirin]

Really? As in the world's largest democracy India?



Off Topic.

Yeah. Thats the same India, though I have my doubts about the democracy ;). Its been only a week, and as I have observed most of the folks here seem Europeans and Americans.

[Empress_Flynn]

I was just rereading FotR and I noticed when they're discussing Isildur's gaining of the one ring he says he took it as "weregild" for the death of his father...

Which was a Norse tradition where monetary reparations were made for the wrongful death of a person. It literally means "man price."

I just thought that was interesting because I hadn't noticed it when I read it before (or if I did I've since forgotten it, it's been a few years...)

[Galin]

Yeah, the Elvish language seems to be primarily influenced by Finnish.


Finnish is in there yes. To add to that, Tolkien generally commented on his major Primary World influences:

Quenya: 'Actually it might be said to be composed on a Latin basis with two other (main) ingredients that happen to give me 'phonaesthetic' pleasure: Finnish and Greek. It is however less consonantal than any of the three.' Sindarin: 'linguistic character very like (though not identical with) British-Welsh' & 'The Sindarin, a Grey-elven language, is in fact constructed deliberately to resemble Welsh phonologically and to have a relation to High-elven similar to that existing between British (properly so-called, sc. the Celtic languages spoken in this island at the time of the Roman invasion) and Latin.'

These quotes are from Letters.

Anyway, with respect to a Northern connection: in the interesting paper A Mythology For England (by Carl Hostetter and Arden Smith, Proceedings of the Tolkien Centenary Conference 1992) the connection to Yngvi-Freyr of the Vanir is well made: in brief here, Yngvi being Lord of the Ljós-alfar 'Light-Elves' who dwell in Alfheim 'Elf-home' -- to be seen as a memory of Ingwe of the Vanyar, Lord of the Calaquendi 'Light-elves', who dwells in Eldamar 'Elven-home'.

[Coffeehouse]

Finnish is in there yes. To add to that, Tolkien generally commented on his major Primary World influences:

Quenya: 'Actually it might be said to be composed on a Latin basis with two other (main) ingredients that happen to give me 'phonaesthetic' pleasure: Finnish and Greek. It is however less consonantal than any of the three.' Sindarin: 'linguistic character very like (though not identical with) British-Welsh' & 'The Sindarin, a Grey-elven language, is in fact constructed deliberately to resemble Welsh phonologically and to have a relation to High-elven similar to that existing between British (properly so-called, sc. the Celtic languages spoken in this island at the time of the Roman invasion) and Latin.'

These quotes are from Letters.

Anyway, with respect to a Northern connection: in the interesting paper A Mythology For England (by Carl Hostetter and Arden Smith, Proceedings of the Tolkien Centenary Conference 1992) the connection to Yngvi-Freyr of the Vanir is well made: in brief here, Yngvi being Lord of the Ljós-alfar 'Light-Elves' who dwell in Alfheim 'Elf-home' -- to be seen as a memory of Ingwe of the Vanyar, Lord of the Calaquendi 'Light-elves', who dwells in Eldamar 'Elven-home'.


Yep, Lysalver og mørkalver, light-elves and dark-elves! In some Norwegian dialects they still say 'ljos' for light. The place I have my summer cabin there have been stories told for hundreds of years about light-elves and dark-elves roaming around at night, some making mischief and some giving fortune. These elves are shorter and lighter than in Tolkien's world.