Redemption, without instant death?

[Vidugavia]

Is it possible for people in middle-earth to repent their bad ways without dying almost instantly? Is there any character in Tolkiens work that sees the errors in their ways and continues to live more then a month?

* Boromir, becomes a needle cushion.

* Maglor, takes a deep swim or fades.(might "live" more then a month, but what a life then)

* Maedhros gets himself fried in lava.

* Lotho Sackville-Baggins gets killed in his sleep and possibly eaten.

* Theoden who didn't do anything really evil, apart from letting wormtounge rule, is crushed by his horse about two weeks after his change of council.

Any more?

[The Telcontarion]

Wow...

A little harsh eh buddy? Sounds like a lot of anger there.

[Vidugavia]

Not angry at all, more amused of my idea. But my pen is sharp. :D

Galadriel, with her lust for dominion, might be an exampel of "safe" redemption or what do you think?

[Earniel]

Well, technically Maglor's ultimate fate is unknown. The only thing I remember about his 'end' is that he wonders by the shores, singing mournfully. It doesn't say whether he eventually faded, or perhaps was allowed to return to Valinor. So from where I'm standing his 'redemption' (i.o.w. finally letting go of that blasted jewel) saved him from sudden death that Maedhros chose.

And personally I don't think Maedhros actually got redemption before his death. He didn't want to let go of the Silmaril in the end, even while knowing his claim was without hope, so he took it with him into the fire. Something like: "If I can't have it, no one will." Classy.

And did Lotho really repent his ways? I wager he felt he picked the wrong companions for the road, but did he really see his errors? Debatable.

As for others... Frodo lives, despite trying to claim the ring in the end. He did end up losing his Shire, but I'm sure he got a few years of peace in Tol Eresseä after all. Not that bad a deal, I think. And as you said, the same goes for Galadriel.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I think Maglor's fate is pretty clear. Those shores he wandered, singing mournfully, were drowned along with the rest of Beleriand. He's almost certainly with his brothers in the Halls of Mandos. Note the almost.

As for Maedhros, I don't think he was as bad in the end as implied. The Oath was a powerful thing. It wasn't like us keeping or breaking promises at will. It was a much stronger bond.

I don't think we know whether Lotho repented or not, but one might expect that he did after his mom was arrested.

Frodo didn't need redemption any more than anyone else. Claiming the Ring wasn't anything he could avoid; it wasn't a flaw.

Galadirel did redeem herself but I don't really think she did anything so bad in the first place, either. Going to Middle Earth was (or should have been) her right. Isolationism was a flawed policy. There's one thing I agree with Feanor on.

Here's one not yet mentioned. Not so much redemption but a similar lack of posterity after gaining freedom from past sins: Wormtongue. He finally breaks free of Saruman's spell, kills him, and is dead within seconds himself. I hope he enjoyed those few free steps down the path before the Hobbit arrows got him.

[Valandil]

In case anyone is interested, I just bumped a thread on a similar topic in the LOTR Book Forum. :)

[Finarfin-1]

Thingol: Goes from refusing even the Edain vassals of his own kin (Finrod, Orodreth, Turgon) entry into Doriath on pain of death, to allowing his beloved only daughter to marry a human who talked a heap of trash at him in his own throne room. (Beren was more than justified btw, Thingol was being a xenophobic arrogant git) Thingol goes on to live for several more decades.

Huan: Knowingly allowed his loyalty to be constantly abused, until Celegorm actually became an accomplice to the attempted murder of Beren and kidnapping of Luthien. Since he was WITH Celegorm after Beren/Luthien left Angband "Huan returned to Celegorm, but his love for his master was less than before" to paraphrase, then he was aware of Curufin and Celegorm's prior planning to seize Luthien and force her to marry one of them. Huan sinned in not abandoning Celegorm the moment he heard that, but redeemed himself by forcing Celegorm to withdraw during the fight, and by catching the first arrow Curufin fired at Beren in his teeth. Huan went on to live for more than a month, but not by much.

Your point is a great one though. Tolkien made a recurring theme out of the price of redemption being quick and brutal death.

[Coffeehouse]

Well, Pippin did grab hold of the Ithil-palantir, which is a pretty poor thing to do:rolleyes:. He didn't die or anything! Though he did end up serving the Steward of Gondor, which is a punishment of sorts I guess under the circumstances.
But he did repent his actions, he was excused, and he lived for a very, very long time:)

[Earniel]

I think Maglor's fate is pretty clear. Those shores he wandered, singing mournfully, were drowned along with the rest of Beleriand. He's almost certainly with his brothers in the Halls of Mandos. Note the almost.Wasn't the drowning at this stage already a fact? Beleriand was destroyed and flooded during the war, but when Maglor and Maedhros stole the silmarils the war was already over. Maedhros probably wouldn't have found a fiery chasm either, if it hadn't been for the destruction the war had caused.


Your point is a great one though. Tolkien made a recurring theme out of the price of redemption being quick and brutal death.Somehow I don't think that's the theme Tolkien intended. If there was a theme, I think it was rather: "Sudden and brutal death happens."

Think of all the people who died sudden and brutal deaths who had done nothing wrong. DÃ*or and his sons? The people of Dorthonion, whose only mistake was having had Húrin as lord? Finrod? Barahir? Gorlim's wife, Eilinel? There's a lot of those too.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Regarding Maglor and Maedhros...There had to be some land left, or else where was the camp of the allies they raided to take the Silmarils. It wasn't in Eriador, I don't believe. Then again, you make an excellent point about the time frame. . . Now I'm confused. Something tells me I used to know this but I can't recall.