View Full Version : Why did Frodo depart?
Peter_20
03-23-2007, 03:24 PM
SPOILER! :D
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Alright, LOTR ends with the departure of Frodo, Bilbo, Gandalf and the Elves into the West, but why did Frodo depart?
I'm sure the Ring had something to do with it, but Frodo just said something like "the Shire is not saved for me", and, well, I never really understood this.
It's an extremely beautiful scene, no doubt, but could you please explain it to me?
Did Frodo break his mind when Gollum stole the Ring from him?
And in that case, what does this mean?
Did Frodo develop a kind of passion to the Ring so that he grieved losing it like that?
Landroval
03-23-2007, 07:09 PM
Yes, he went there to find healing
- Alas! there are some wounds that cannot be wholly cured, said Gandalf (III 268) – not in Middle-earth.
Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him – if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. So he went both to a purgatory and to a reward, for a while: a period of reflection and peace and a gaining of a truer understanding of his position in littleness and in greatness, spent still in Time amid the natural beauty of 'Arda Unmarred', the Earth unspoiled by evil.
As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time – whether brief or long. The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer 'immortality' upon them. Their sojourn was a 'purgatory', but one of peace and healing and they would eventually pass away (die at their own desire and of free will) to destinations of which the Elves knew nothing.
The Gaffer
03-27-2007, 06:14 AM
Yes, it is a spiritual journey to rest and healing. I loved the foreshadowing of it in his dream in Tom Bombadil's house.
And, to speculate on the meaning of it all, it is to show how, in going to hell and back, a person might be so changed as to fail to recognise that which they were fighting for.
sisterandcousinandaunt
03-27-2007, 10:00 AM
Tolkien was so caught up in his favorite mythology,;) that he couldn't envision a win without a perfect sacrifice.
"He that loses his life shall gain it" comes in, though. If Frodo had fallen into Mount Doom (a much more reasonable ending, actually, as Sam is clearly the 'everyman' of the work) Frodo would have been 'punished' for his struggle to unmake the ring. Tolkien can't have liked how that would appear (to everyone but Leif :p ) as random.
But Frodo was set up with only a few primary relationships. He has Bilbo. After that there's the Father, Son and (Un)Holy Ghost, Gandalf, Sam, and Smeagol. He's always portayed as distant from them, in ordinary human terms. So he's "rewarded" at the end for his sacfrifice, in a way the books audience can see.
Landroval
03-27-2007, 04:41 PM
He's always portayed as distant from them, in ordinary human terms.
What do you mean he is distant from Gandalf and Sam?
brownjenkins
03-27-2007, 04:54 PM
All Frodo really needed was a good Hobbit-lass. :D
hectorberlioz
03-27-2007, 05:01 PM
Rosie Gamgee was the only desirable in the Shire though, and Samwise got there first. No wonder Frodo sailed away, he was fightin' mad;)
Butterbeer
03-27-2007, 07:02 PM
"the Shire is not saved for me"
this, in itself, i think is the more interesting part of your enquiry than why he sailed away!
Does he reject a part of himself in this do you think? How much is it a sadness of the soul to devalue simple rustic honesty and peace?
brownjenkins
03-27-2007, 08:35 PM
Are you saying he'd become a city-boy BB? :D
inked
03-28-2007, 12:00 AM
BJ, your crass materialistic side is showing! Hobbit-lass and city-boy! Sheesh, the infection is worse than you imagine! :p
How about, Butterbeer, that Frodo had so expended himself in the quest that he lost the ability to participate in the full reality of the Shire and its goodness? Evil had so wrought a change in him, despite his very best efforts, that he had been changed irrevocably in this world and so needed to be 'made whole again' (and, having been through the test, to the very brink of the fire that is not quenched and where the worm corrupted, doesn't he need some time in Paradise before entering "heaven")? This certainly reflects the experiences of those who fought in WWI and lost their relationships (see Tolkien's reflections on the matter in LETTERS).
sisterandcousinandaunt
03-28-2007, 12:44 AM
even more after he becomes the White Rider. But he was hardly swapping tales in the Green Dragon with Frodo, even before then. Frodo is described as living alone, but with many friends...Folco, Fredegar, Merry and Pippin..."more often he wandered by himself". At the long expected party he was 33...he doesn't leave until 50.
His relationship with Sam clearly develops on the trip. He's much older, even in Hobbit terms, and Sam is his yard guy. Sam isn't among the invited guests to that last Bag End birthday, even.
So Frodo's a guy who, like his uncle, isn't settling down at the expected age. He just lives on his trust fund and pals around with much younger cousins. He doesn't actually "let his hair down" much, I think.
He can't 'lose the Shire' in the same way that someone with an actual bet on the table could.
What do you mean he is distant from Gandalf and Sam?
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