LOTR Discussion: Appendix A, Part 1

[Valandil]

Appendix A (Parts i, ii, iii, iv, v)

Introduction:

Sam’s return home to Bag End in “The Grey Havens� is followed by two rather curious words… “The End�. Don’t believe them… it’s a LIE!

Now, if you have never gone on to read the appendices, you won’t quite understand that claim. After all, an appendix sounds like something just crammed full of “ibids� and “op cids� and names of obscure authors and books and the dates when those books were published.

Well – the Appendices in “The Lord of the Rings� are not like that at all. They’re full of stories, more stories and thousands of hints at further stories yet untold. And isn’t that part of the magic of Tolkien’s work? It is so detailed, and many-layered. It’s the mystery of the ‘barely hinted-at’ that makes it all seem so real. Now – you might think that by digging into these layers, Middle Earth may lose its sense of ‘mystery’. But fear not – if you dig deeper, you won’t get to the bottom of everything. You’ll only find more and more layers of story, buried deeper and deeper still.

At least that’s what I found in these works. Of course, I didn’t find them my first time reading through the books. It was actually about my third time – maybe my fourth – and it was over fifteen years after my first reading. I read the books first when I was 14 or 15, then at least once more in college. But it was another reading – from the late autumn of 1993 to the early winter of 1994, in my early 30’s, when I finally continued on into Appendix A after reading LOTR.

I was blown away.

All that is just to get you to consider reading this material, if you haven’t yet. Now we’ll get on to the content.

But first, a quick mention of the sources. That “Red Book of Westmarch� must have been quite an exhaustive work. Tolkien tells us at the beginning of Appendix A that, “The legends, histories, and lore to be found in the sources are very extensive. Only selections from them, in most places much abridged, are here presented…� Wow – so what Tolkien gives us in the actual Appendices is only a small part from the sources he had – and even that must have left many gaps. There’s so much more “undiscovered story� lying around out there someplace!

Alright – on to the histories themselves:

- - - - - - -

Contents:
Appendix A consists mainly of narrative histories. First are brief accounts of ancient days (called the First Age and the Second Age). Next are historical overviews of 3,000 years of Third Age history of the Dunedain in the North (Arnor) and South (Gondor). Following this is the story of Aragorn and Arwen – how they met and fell in love. This is the extent of the material covered by this Discussion Project assignment. The next assignment will wrap up Appendix A with accounts of Rohan and of the Dwarves. In all these stories, we see hints of what was to come in LOTR, and gain a deeper understanding of their importance.

(i) – Numenor:

Tolkien takes us way back to give us the setting. He tells of Feanor - the greatest, but most willful of the Elves in the earliest days. Feanor made three great jewels, the “Silmarilli�, filled with the radiance of the Two Trees which gave light to the land of the Valar. These jewels were stolen by Morgoth the Enemy. Then followed the Wars in ancient Beleriand as the Elves who followed Feanor fought against Morgoth to attempt to reclaim these jewels. The Edain were Men of old who allied themselves with the Elves, aiding them in these early battles. When the Valar intervened at last, they rewarded the remnant of the Edain with an island home for themselves, called Elenna – on which the Edain established the Kingdom of Numenor. Their first king was Elros, brother of Elrond, for Elros chose to be numbered among Men.

The Men of Numenor were very tall, and lived much longer than other Men. In time, they became great seamen, and began to sail to Middle Earth. They grew in wealth and in wisdom and in all things were unsurpassed by other Men. They aided the Elves in battle with Sauron. Eventually, a great King arose named Ar-Pharazon. He sought to make war on Sauron, and Sauron’s armies fled before him – so that Sauron even surrendered to him. Ar-Pharazon took Sauron back to Numenor with him, but Sauron gained his way into Ar-Pharazon’s counsel, and deceived him and the rest of Numenor (all but a small remnant), into rebelling against the Valar, for the Numenoreans had long ago begun to envy the immortality of the Elves.

When this rebellion ultimately bore fruit, a great upheaval struck Numenor and the island of Elenna sank into the sea. Only the remnant of the Faithful were saved – followers of Elendil (a great noble of the land, related to the Kings of Numenor in their distant past), on nine ships, which were caught up by the cataclysmic storm and carried away to the coasts of Middle Earth.

On Middle Earth they established two kingdoms – Arnor in the north and Gondor in the south. Elendil was High King and ruled in the north, at the city of Annuminas, on the south shores of Lake Evendim, the source of the River Baranduin (Brandywine River). His sons Isildur and Anarion ruled Gondor from the great city of Osgiliath, on the River Anduin.

Sauron had escaped the wreck of Numenor, unbeknownst at first to Elendil and his sons. He returned to his former land of Mordor and began to rebuild his forces, once he learned that his enemy Elendil controlled lands about him. But he sprang his attack too soon, and the combined forces of the Men under Elendil and the Elves under Gil-galad in the Last Alliance of Elves and Men, was too powerful. His forces were defeated, he himself was thrown down and the One Ring taken from his hand. Thus ended the Second Age.

(ii) – The Realms in Exile:

This section consists of genealogical lists of the rulers of Arnor and of Gondor. We see that “The Northern Line – Heirs of Isildur� is divided into the sections; Arnor, Arthedain and Chieftains. “The Southern Line – Heirs of Anarion� is divided into; Kings of Gondor, Stewards of Gondor and Ruling Stewards. If we look closely, we also see that many of these men ruled for a very long time, by our standards (some for over 100 years) – and also that some, here or there, died an untimely death. We see brief descriptive vignettes about some – primarily in Gondor; a reference to “four Ship Kings�, which kings were childless, names held by some before taking the throne, and anecdotes about unusual successions.

(iii) – Eriador, Arnor and the Heirs of Isildur:

OK – I have to admit that this is my personal favorite – although it is so brief. I think I like it so because I always admired Aragorn, and this is the account of his ancestors.

This section begins by laying out the geographical boundaries of the land of Eriador. Then we’re told of Arnor, the ancient kingdom established in Eriador by Elendil. The story (LOTR itself) only gives us a few hints of its long history. We know that Isildur was ambushed by Orcs on his way there, for he intended to leave Gondor to his brother’s heirs and take up the throne of the High King in Arnor. His three older sons died with him – and we know that Aragorn is descended from a younger son, Valandil (my namesake). We also know that these people eventually dwindled, until they lived in secret, and were called “Rangers� by those who had forgotten their descent.

This account fills in some of the gaps. We learn that there were eight more High Kings after Isildur, and that after the eighth, who died in 861, the Kingdom was divided into three ‘daughter kingdoms’; Arthedain (where Amlaith, the eldest brother, was king) in the north and west, Cardolan to the south and Rhudaur in the east. The latter two quarreled over the palantir at Amon Sul (Weathertop), for it was the only one in the north not securely in the hands of Arthedain. Before many generations, warfare had decimated them, and the line of Isildur died out in both lands. Orcs began to trouble the land once more.

At about this time, another kingdom arose in the northeast. It was the land of Angmar, and it’s king was the Witch-King – one of the Nine Men who had become a RingWraith of Sauron – the Chief of the Nine, in fact. Soon, Angmar began to take out these Dunedain realms, one by one. The first to fall was Rhudaur, and then Cardolan. Some say the barrow in which the Hobbits were held was the final resting place of Cardolan’s last prince – who fell in a great invasion in 1409, which was eventually beaten back with the help of Arthedain’s Elven allies – Lindon and Rivendell.

This history being written by Hobbits, we’re also told that their ancestors had begun to come into from the banks of the Anduin, over the Misty Mountains and into Eriador by this time. When times grew more troublesome, some returned back over the mountains (ancestors of Gollum?), while others migrated further west, some settling at Bree, and eventually the Shire.

A Great Plague came through about 200 years after the invasion of 1409 (1636, to be precise). At this time, the King of Angmar sent evil spirits to the Barrow Downs – and none could live there after this time.

In 1974, Angmar had grown strong once more, and that winter launched a decisive attack on Fornost, the capitol city of Arthedain (it seems clear that Annuminas had been abandoned - perhaps right after the Division, but we are not told explicitly when). King Arvedui escaped with the palantiri, but he had to flee north. Cirdan of Lindon sent an Elven-ship for him, but Arvedui drowned when it was broken by the ice and sank.

King Arvedui’s sons had also escaped, but there was no kingdom left for them to rule. The remnants of the Northern Dunedain became a wandering people.

The Shire-folk survived those times, though war swept over them. They had been subject to Arthedain (for their land was within its bounds), but now took up self-rule. Their first Thain was chosen in 1979.

Meanwhile, the descendents of Arthedain’s line of kings took the title “Chieftain of the Northern Dunedain�. They remained in very close contact with Rivendell, for their heirs were fostered there, and there also an aged Chieftain would live out his last days in peace. They continued to fight against the creatures of the dark powers; Orcs, Wargs, Trolls – whatever would otherwise have beset the peoples of their former realm (though Angmar was no more, for the allies of Arthedain had crushed it after Arthedain fell – there’s more on this in the section on Gondor).

The chronicler then gives an account (post-LOTR story) of Aragorn, who appears to still have been King of both Gondor and Arnor at the time this is first written. He comes north at times, has restored a home in Annuminas, and Elanor, daughter of Samwise, is one of the maids of Queen Evenstar. Though the chieftains before him had still lived to twice the age of other Men, Aragorn himself lived to the ago of 210.

[Valandil]

(iv) - Gondor and the Heirs of Anarion:

This section is more developed than the one on Arnor. It’s about 30% of all Appendix A by itself.

While Arnor seemed to begin with a decline at the very beginning of the Third Age, Gondor first rose, then maintained, and finally began a long decline of its own – but a decline it survived. Remember that while we think of “Minas Tirith� when we think of Gondor, this was not a great city for most of their history. It was mostly a royal palace and was surely dwarfed by; Osgiliath, the great capitol, Pelargir, the main port city of Gondor, and Umbar, a southern port held by Gondor for much of the first part of the Third Age.

In it’s first millennium, we read of expansion and wars of conquest. Gondor grows outwardly in all directions. There are four successive “Ship Kings� – who build strong navies to send up and down the coast of Middle Earth. The first Ship-King was also the first childless king, and the crown passed to his nephew.

Atanatar Alcarin was King after the fourth Ship-King. He was named “The Glorious� for Gondor reached its peak in power and in wealth at his time. Yet he and his sons were not as active as their forbears, and this began to lead to the waning of Gondor. His elder son was the second childless King, who in this case was succeeded by his brother, and then by the brother’s son, Minalcar – who later took the name of Romendacil. Minalcar was very energetic and diligent. He fortified weak areas, drove back those who threatened the kingdom and built the twin pillars of the Argonath. He made alliances with the Northmen of Rhovanion, who dwelt east of Greenwood Forest. They were related to the ancestors of the Edain, and some of their descendants would later become the Rohirrim. He did all this as regent – for he served both his uncle and then his father in that capacity, for they wished to live without care.

To strengthen his alliance with the Northmen, he sent his son Valacar to live among one of their greatest chiefs, Vidugavia. Valacar went a bit beyond his father’s plans though, for he took to wife Vidumava, daughter of Vidugavia. Many years later, this bore fruit as the “Kin-Strife� – the first of Three Great Evils endured by Gondor in the second millennium of the Third Age.

When Eldacar, son of Valacar, took the throne of Gondor (in 1432), the southern provinces were already in revolt. For the first time, their king was not a full-blooded Dunedain. Besides this, an internal division seems to have arisen in the kingdom – a competition of sorts between the northern, interior part of the kingdom, with its alliances to the Northmen – and the southern, seafaring regions. It was Castamir, second cousin of Eldacar, who led them, and five years into Eldacar’s reign, drove him from Osgiliath into the far north. Osgiliath itself was in flames, the tower of its great stone (palantir) destroyed, and the stone itself lost in the Anduin.

After ten years in exile, Eldacar returned with a large army. Many of Gondor flocked to him, for Castamir had proven to be cruel, executing Eldacar’s eldest son who was captured at Osgiliath. Castamir also wished to move the capitol to Pelargir, the port city – for he favored the ships. There was a great battle at the Crossings of Erui, south of Minas Anor. Castamir’s army was routed and Castamir himself slain in battle by Eldacar. Castamir’s sons gathered their remaining forces and held out at Pelargir before sailing to Umbar, which they and their descendants held – and which Gondor only re-took briefly one time afterwards.

The Second Evil to fall on Gondor, and also the worst, was the Great Plague of 1636. King Telemnar and all his children died, and so did the White Tree planted by Isildur. His nephew Tarondor succeeded him and planted a seedling of the tree at Minas Anor. He then moved the King’s residence permanently from Osgiliath to Minas Anor – for Osgiliath was mostly deserted after the plague. By the Plague, Gondor lost the strength which had allowed it to keep a close watch on Mordor.

The Third Evil to befall Gondor was the Wainriders. This was a group of peoples from the east who rode in great wagons, or wains – and whose leaders fought in chariots. They attacked Gondor in the 1850’s, and occupied much of its former eastern territories (north of Mordor and east of Anduin) for several decades.

This section of Gondor’s history tells us more about the last days of Arthedain. For it was in 1940 that the estranged kingdoms of north and south again took counsel together and perceived that there was a common power working against them. Firiel, the daughter of King Ondoher of Gondor, was married to Arvedui, son of King Araphant of Arthedain. It was soon after this, in 1944, that Ondoher fell in battle with both of his sons – leaving no male heir. Arvedui made a claim on Gondor’s throne, but eventually this was rejected and the throne of Gondor was given to Earnil, a third cousin to Firiel and the general who defeated the army which had defeated Ondoher’s forces.

It was in Earnil’s reign, after Arvedui had come to the throne of Arthedain, that Fornost was taken by the Witch-king (1974). Earnil sent his son Earnur north with a fleet of ships. They arrived too late to save Arthedain, but with the help of Lindon and Imladris, along with a remnant of Arthedain’s forces, they destroyed Angmar’s army. It was at this time, in dissuading Earnur from a continued pursuit of the Witch-king that Glorfindel gave his prophecy that “… Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of Man will he fall.�

It later became clear that the Witch-king had gone south, for in 2000 – all the nazgul laid siege to Minas Ithil, finally taking it in 2002, and at last claiming a palantir. The tower became a place of dread and was renamed “Minas Morgul� – and Minas Anor was at this time named “Minas Tirith� – “Tower of Guard�.

Earnur was the last king of Gondor in his line, for he had no heirs – and he went forth at a challenge from the Witch-king and was never seen again.

It was at this time that the Stewards began to rule Gondor. The land faced frequent strife. While Cirion was Steward, Gondor was almost overwhelmed by the latest group of eastern warriors called the Balchoth. It was then (2510) that Eorl led the Eotheod from the north and joined Gondor on the field of battle – and together they routed the Balchoth. Cirion gave the land of Calenardhon to Eorl, and their new kingdom was named Rohan, and his people the Rohirrim. And the two peoples remained allies through the difficult years to come.

In the stewardship of Beren came the Long Winter of 2758-2759, with multiple invasions to both Gondor and Rohan. They held on though, but were further depleted. It was at this time that Saruman was given the keys to Orthanc.

The White Tree planted by Tarondor died the same year as the steward Belecthor II. No replacement could be found, so it was kept standing, “until the king returns.�

Turgon was the Steward under whose rule Sauron openly declared himself in Mordor. Ecthelion, son of Turgon, sought to strengthen his position by gathering men he could trust from near or far around him. One such man who rose to high rank in his service was called Thorongil – who performed great works of service, but slipped away without returning to Minas Tirith after his greatest triumph.

Ecthelion was followed by his son Denethor. We know a lot about him and his sons from the story, but we find out even more in Appendix A.


(v) – Here Follows a Part of the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen

You read the book and you can’t understand why Aragorn goes for Arwen instead of Eowyn? Well… read this one and you’ll see.

We start with the marriage of Aragorn’s father, Arathorn, and Gilraen. Arathorn’s father Arador was still Chieftain of the Dunedain at this time, and Gilraen’s father thought his daughter was a bit young (at 22) to wed. But with some encouragement from his wife he gave his assent (their “long-sightedness� plays a role in this discussion).

But soon after they marry, Arador is taken by Trolls and slain. Then – just a couple years after the birth of their son, Aragorn, Arathorn (now Chieftain) is slain by an arrow while hunting Orcs with the sons of Elrond.

The line of Isildur is probably in its most precarious position ever. The surviving heir is only two years old! Aragorn is raised in Rivendell, but his true identity is at first concealed from him.

Then come a series of momentous events. First – Elrond, seeing how Aragorn has grown into manhood, reveals his heritage to him. The next day, while Aragorn’s heart is rejoicing at what he has found, he sees Arwen for the first time, and is stopped dead in his tracks. They talk a little, but Aragorn falls for her right then and there… hard. This soon becomes clear to his mother, and then to Elrond. After this, Aragorn goes into the wild.

He wanders about for many years, wandering into far lands, making friends with Gandalf the Grey, serving foreign kings in different guises (see mention of “Thorongil� in Ecthelion’s service: hint-hint!) and learning the tricks of the Enemy. At last, after nearly 30 years, he comes to Lorien, and finds that Arwen is there as well (for her mother had been the daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn). They pledge themselves to each other. When Aragorn returns to Rivendell, Elrond lays the charge on him that his daughter will be wed to no Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor.

Aragorn returns to his toils. We have one particularly poignant moment at the passing of his mother Gilraen. But on he works. Highlights of Aragorn’s role in the War of the Ring is recounted, and then we have at the end, the account of the passing of Aragorn, and then of Arwen.

- - - - - - -

[Valandil]

OK - sorry the "summary" is so long, but really, it's already a summary in the Appendix. I wasn't sure what to do! :p

I should also note that, for the serious student, many of these tales are expanded on in The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and the History of Middle Earth books. I will also note that some dates not present in the account were drawn from Appendix B.

I have just a few questions to start us. Maybe I'll add more to this same post later:

1. How much of this material do you think Tolkien had worked out in advance, or while he was still working on the story - and what do you think maybe came as an "afterthought"?

2. What do you see from actual history? Did Tolkien copy particular histories or "borrow" episodes? Do any particular characters seem like real historical characters? Which ones, and who are they like?

3. What interests you about either Arnor or Gondor? Name some contrasts you see between the two.

- - - - - - -

Additional questions:

4. What do you like or not like about the story of Aragorn and Arwen?

5. Point out some things in the Appendix account that come to completion in the LOTR story - where the Appendix sort of "ties things together". In other words - what seeds planted in the Appendix bear fruit in the LOTR story?

6. Do you observe any consistent themes?

[Spock]

...."how many think Val has WAY too much time on his hands"? :)

Books such as these are a diversion, entertainment and a respite from reality; both for me and millions of others.

Scholarly review .....I think not.........tip toes out of the room......

[Gordis]

Great work, and beautifully written, Val! My congratulations.
It was hard to write, no doubt, considering that it was a summary of the summary.
Your questions are hard to answer though.

1. How much of this material do you think Tolkien had worked out in advance, or while he was still working on the story - and what do you think maybe came as an "afterthought"?

"In advance", before he started the LOTR? Almost nothing, IMO, except some First age material that later found its way into Silm. A great deal of it was invented while working on the last part of the story – the part about Arnor and Angmar, for instance, or about Arwen. Some things that emerged in the beginning of the story, like Aragorn heir of Elendil, Barrow-Wights, nazgul, were later reassessed and incorporated into the Appendices.
That is great pity that Tolkien seemed to be in a hurry while writing the Appendices. He wanted to include them into the book and they were published with it, but later Tolkien never found time to expand these wonderful stories. I love them even better than the book itself.


"2. What do you see from actual history? Did Tolkien copy particular histories or "borrow" episodes? Do any particular characters seem like real historical characters? Which ones, and who are they like?"
One can write a 1000-pages book in reply to this question. The division of the empire of Charlemagne in 814 (?) comes to mind – much like Arnor was divided. Egypt Upper and Lower – much like Arnor and Gondor. Then in Egypt – weren’t there some invaders much like Wainraiders? (My memories are vague here, sorry). Atlantis - Numenor of course. Well, this subject is endless.


3. What interests you about either Arnor or Gondor? Name some contrasts you see between the two.
Arnor has managed to fall into decline even before any real enemy appeared on the horizon. Why? Nobody really knows. Gondor prospered, despite numerous challenges, and its very prosperity probably proved its undoing. Some kings became too lazy to rule…

Then, it seems, from the start Arnorians and Gondorians adopted different policies towards intermixing with native "barbarians". Gondorian royal blood became "diluted", but the stiff-necked Arnorians almost died out altogether (come on, 30 Dunedain only came to the major war to help their Chieftain – they were very few indeed!)


4. What do you like or not like about the story of Aragorn and Arwen?
I don’t like it much, Val. I think this story was a very late idea, and not one of the best. What I don’t like about the story is the predestination idea. A beautiful elf-maid living among eligible elves reminds unwed for 3000 years. Then she meets a mortal and falls in love). Very well. But this very mortal happens to be the one who was destined to take the throne of Arnor-Gondor. Because he chanced to live exactly at the time when the Ring was found and Sauron knew of it and opened the war…Why, all the chieftains before Aragorn were raised in Rivendell! Why has she chosen Aragorn? And what if she had fallen for his dad Arathorn? Or his great- granddad? Would he then become the King? I doubt it. Or was she kept as a prize for the one who succeeds?

But of course, Tolkien made this story because the New King Elessar needed a heir. There was talk here a year ago: why not Eowyn?
But apart from that Aragorn was "too old and too grim for her", Aragorn (who after all was eligible for the throne because of his PURE BLOOD) could hardly start his reign by marrying a non-numenorean woman. So right out of the blue enters Arwen daughter of Elrond,

5. Point out some things in the Appendix account that come to completion in the LOTR story - where the Appendix sort of "ties things together". In other words - what seeds planted in the Appendix bear fruit in the LOTR story?
The loss of the Palantir of Minas Ithil, the rejection of Arvedui by Gondorians, Glorfindel’s prophecy, and a lot of others.

6. Do you observe any consistent themes?
Constant decline? Things that were are always better than things that are… And the happy end is nothing but the return to the sources in a way…
Also humility is wiser than arrogance…
Well.. whatever.

[Landroval]

Arnor has managed to fall into decline even before any real enemy appeared on the horizon.
What decline is that? Strife, debate, sure, but your label is too harsh. The northern kingdom had the necromancer and the nazgul on their back, ever at work, which is hardly matched by the Gondor's enemies. Actually
30 Dunedain only came to the major war to help their Chieftain – they were very few indeed!
Firstly, the Dunedain were not summnoned by Aragorn; moreoever, they were gathered in haste, and we must keep in mind that they weren't a concentrated power, covering quite a large area.
I think this story was a very late idea, and not one of the best.
Interestingly enough, Tolkien calls this the "highest love story" :p Then she meets a mortal and falls in love
Yeah, after thirthy years.

However, there is one thing I don't like about this Tale:
But Elrond saw many things and read many hearts.
...
But as for Arwen the Fair, Lady of Imladris and of Lorien, Evenstar of her people, she is of lineage greater than yours, and she has lived in the world already so long that to her you are but as a yearling shoot beside a young birch of many summers. She is too far above you. And so, I think, it may well seem to her.
Too far above you. Pffft

[Valandil]

Gordis - yes, Landroval is correct. The 30 were all that could be gathered in haste, and that could go mounted. That latter is another point we often forget. Tolkien's view of the Dunedain who go to war seems to be mostly of foot-soldiers.

And Landroval - I think what Elrond was expressing to Aragorn is common to what any father thinks of any young man who wishes to marry his daughter. :p

[Landroval]

And Landroval - I think what Elrond was expressing to Aragorn is common to what any father thinks of any young man who wishes to marry his daughter. :p
Or brother. Or uncle. Or grandfather. Ad infinitum :D

[Gordis]

What decline is that? Strife, debate, sure, but your label is too harsh. The northern kingdom had the necromancer and the nazgul on their back, ever at work, which is hardly matched by the Gondor's enemies. Actually
Strife, debate, open civil war.
A capitol city abandoned and falling in ruins.
I call this decline. :p

And don’t try to lay the blame for Arnor’s decline on the innocent Witch-King.
The decline started long before the Witch King ever came North and even before anything unusual was spotted in the Southern Mirkwood.

In the North after the war and the slaughter of the Gladden Fields the Men of Westernesse were diminished, and their city of Annúminas beside Lake Evendim fell into ruin; and the heirs of Valandil removed and dwelt at Fornost on the high North Downs, and that now too is desolate. Men call it Deadmen's Dike, and they fear to tread there. For the folk of Arnor dwindled, and their foes devoured them, and their lordship passed, leaving only green mounds in the grassy hills.

When was Annuminas abandoned? I think about the same time as Arnor was divided. Amlaith (eldest son of Eärendur - died in 946) was called "Amlaith of Fornost .

Also look here:

[The lord of that land was known as the Witch-king, but it was not known until later that he was indeed the chief of the Ringwraiths, who came north with the purpose of destroying the Dúnedain in Arnor, seeing hope in their disunion, while Gondor was strong.]’

The Witch-King set shop in Angmar in 1300 BECAUSE Arnor was already in decline, the three daughter kingdoms fighting with each other:

In Arthedain the line of Isildur was maintained and endured, but the line soon perished in Cardolan and Rhudaur. There was often strife between the kingdoms, which hastened the waning of the Dúnedain. The chief matter of debate was the possession of the Weather Hills and the land westward towards Bree. Both Rhudaur and Cardolan desired to possess Amon Sûl (Weathertop), which stood on the borders of their realms; for the Tower of Amon Sûl held the chief PalantÃ*r of the North, and the other two were both in the keeping of Arthedain.


Firstly, the Dunedain were not summnoned by Aragorn; moreoever, they were gathered in haste, and we must keep in mind that they weren't a concentrated power, covering quite a large area.
Where did I say they were summoned by Aragorn?
Nay, they were summoned by Galadriel, I think. What does that change?

-In haste? -yes, but the Rohirrim were also gathered in haste - and 7000 spears rode to Mundburg. Compare this to 30 Dunedain.

Val Sure the rangers were mostly foot-soldiers, but do you really believe that there were MANY left behind simply because they had no horses? How many?

Interestingly enough, Tolkien calls this the "highest love story" :p
IMHO, love stories were not Tolkien's strongest point. Anyway, I prefer Beren & Luthien.

Yeah, after thirthy years. What is 30 years for a 3000 years old maid? Moreover, they never saw each other for this 30 years.

Too far above you. Pffft But it is true, you know. Lineage in Tolkien's world is everything, whether you like it or not.
Arwen was far above Aragorn and Luthien was far above Beren and Idril far above Tuor.

[Landroval]

open civil war
Civil war in Arnor? Quote please
A capitol city abandoned and falling in ruins.
Though not on the same timeline, the same happened to Osgiliath
And don’t try to lay the blame for Arnor’s decline on the innocent Witch-King.
I believe the contrary; I bet that ugly son of a had some part.
When was Annuminas abandoned? I think about the same time as Arnor was divided. Amlaith (eldest son of Eärendur - died in 946) was called "Amlaith of Fornost .
I agree:
After Earendur the Northern Kingdom of Arnor was broken up. The sons of the king established smaller independent kingdoms. The direct line of the eldest son ruled the realm of Arthedain in the north-west; their city was Fornost. Annuminas became deserted owing to the dwindling of the people.
Nay, they were summoned by Galadriel, I think. What does that change?
This is a time of war; Aragorn left them with specific duties, I don't see how the bulk of them would leave in haste without a direct order from their superrior. Even Aragorn calls them "some of my kin", he doesn't jump around praising Eru for sending the bulk of his forces.
What is 30 years for a 3000 years old maid?
I never heard that elvish people require centuries to genuinely fall in love. Evidence points to the contrary - for example Finwe fell in love with Indis in seconds when hearing her welcoming song ;)
But it is true, you know. Lineage in Tolkien's world is everything, whether you like it or not.
In Hobbit, Silmarillion and in LotR, Tolkien sets to prove quite the contrary:
Here we meet, among other things, the first example of the motive (to become dominant in Hobbits) that the great policies of world history, 'the wheels of the world', are often turned not by the Lords and Governors, even gods, but by the seemingly unknown and weak – owing to the secret life in creation, and the pan unknowable to all wisdom but One, that resides in the intrusions of the Children of God into the Drama. It is Beren the outlawed monal who succeeds (with the help of Luthien, a mere maiden even if an elf of royalty) where all the armies and warriors have failed: he penetrates the stronghold of the Enemy and wrests one of the Silmarilli from the Iron Crown. Thus he wins the hand of Luthien and the first marriage of mortal and immortal is achieved.
That is why I regard the tale of Arwen and Aragorn as the most important of the Appendices; it is pan of the essential story, and is only placed so, because it could not be worked into the main narrative without destroying its structure: which is planned to be 'hobbito-centric', that is, primarily a study of the ennoblement (or sanctification) of the humble.
Arwen was far above Aragorn ... and Idril far above Tuor.
Please define their superiority. Mere ancestry isn't an automatic qualifier.

[Gordis]

Civil war in Arnor? Quote please
I have posted it already.
In Arthedain the line of Isildur was maintained and endured, but the line soon perished in Cardolan and Rhudaur. There was often strife between the kingdoms, which hastened the waning of the Dúnedain. The chief matter of debate was the possession of the Weather Hills and the land westward towards Bree. Both Rhudaur and Cardolan desired to possess Amon Sûl (Weathertop), which stood on the borders of their realms; for the Tower of Amon Sûl held the chief PalantÃ*r of the North, and the other two were both in the keeping of Arthedain.
Strife that leads to waning of the people and causes perishing of the ruling lines is not a mere dispute but open war. Note in Gondor the war between Castamir and Eldacar is also called "strife". The Arnorians fought for Amon Sul all the time, killing each other.

Though not on the same timeline, the same happened to Osgiliath
Exactly. And that was the DECLINE of Gondor.

I believe the contrary; I bet that ugly son of a had some part.
The handsome son of High Numenorean Lords had nothing to do with the division of Arnor in 890 or with the abandoning of Annuminas. He came North in 1300 - read the Appendices!
And, btw, rudeness doesn't make your argument sound better. :(

This is a time of war; Aragorn left them with specific duties, I don't see how the bulk of them would leave in haste without a direct order from their superrior. Even Aragorn calls them "some of my kin", he doesn't jump around praising Eru for sending the bulk of his forces.
How many constituted the "bulk" in your opinion?

In Hobbit, Silmarillion and in LotR, Tolkien sets to prove quite the contrary"
You mix noble lineage issue with the ability to turn 'the wheels of the world'.[/QUOTE] Arwen had no need to prove herself to become worthy of Aragorn, neither was thar required of Luthien. It were the "Less noble" who had to wrestle Silmarils from Morgoth and defeat Sauron and win the Crown lost millennia before.

Mere ancestry isn't an automatic qualifier.
Tell this to Thingol or to Elrond.


:p

[Landroval]

Strife that leads to waning of the people and causes perishing of the ruling lines is not a mere dispute but open war. Note in Gondor the war between Castamir and Eldacar is also called "strife".
Well, I was quite confident this morning that I could successfully nitpick on each and every argument; unfortunately, Peoples of Middle Earth reserved me an unpleasant surprise when I consulted it:
Arveleg I, born 1309 lived 100 years, slain 1409. The Witch-king of Angmar taking advantage of war among [the Numenoreans] comes down out of the North.
Exactly. And that was the DECLINE of Gondor..
The kin-strife, which is counted as the first great evil, occured five years before that; the burning of Osgiliath is not numbered among the great catastrophes - it is most likely an outcome, not a cause.
How many constituted the "bulk" in your opinion?
Since no such a speculation can be backed with facts, I will refrain.
In Hobbit, Silmarillion and in LotR, Tolkien sets to prove quite the contrary"
You mix noble lineage issue with the ability to turn 'the wheels of the world'. Arwen had no need to prove herself to become worthy of Aragorn, neither was thar required of Luthien. It were the "Less noble" who had to wrestle Silmarils from Morgoth and defeat Sauron and win the Crown lost millennia before.
I have a hard time trying to understand your point. Perhaps you could rephrase. Mere ancestry isn't an automatic qualifier.
Tell this to Thingol or to Elrond.
Appeal to authority, without any othe argument, constitutes a logical fallacy in a debate :p

[Spock]

Indeed!

[Valandil]

Gordis, THIS quote:

In the North after the war and the slaughter of the Gladden Fields the Men of Westernesse were diminished, and their city of Annúminas beside Lake Evendim fell into ruin; and the heirs of Valandil removed and dwelt at Fornost on the high North Downs, and that now too is desolate. Men call it Deadmen's Dike, and they fear to tread there. For the folk of Arnor dwindled, and their foes devoured them, and their lordship passed, leaving only green mounds in the grassy hills.

... could hardly be too indicative of how quickly the North declined. It's basically summarizing 3000 years of history into two sentences.

In fact - it's hard for me to imagine - the descendants of four Numenorean shiploads, suffering great loss at war and at the Gladden Fields, continuing to decline for the next several hundred years, then splitting into three kingdoms that were at war for a few generations... and still there was even a kingdom for Angmar to over-run in 1974! That tells me that the "decline" was an overall trend, but that they probably had their ups and downs along the way - prosperity, then a setback, a recover, a deeper setback, etc.

As for how many more rangers there were in the north - you could give me a number, I could give you a number, but it wouldn't matter much because it'd be a guess either way: 600? 1000? 2000? Who knows. Admittedly, not a whole lot, by standards of an army, but we know they weren't enough to sustain a kingdom at this time.

[The Gaffer]

Valandil, congratulations on an excellent, highly readable summary.

My experience was very similar to yours, in that I didn't read the Appendices until the second or third reading of LOTR. The sweep and majesty of the history that is sketched out was awe-inspiring, and the material greatly enriched my subsequent readings of the main story, particularly the history of Aragorn.

I think the greatest impact I felt when re-reading the Lorien chapter, where Aragorn takes Frodo to Cerin Amroth, and Frodo sees a vision of him from his meeting with Arwen.

"Here is the heart of Elvendom on earth, and here my heart dwells ever, unless there be a light beyond the dark roads that we must tread, you and I, come with me!" And taking Frodo’s hand in his, he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as living man.

Cue waterworks.

I love Tolkien's idea that powerful events leave an "imprint" in time and space, which is visible to some, e.g. Frodo. Gilraen shared it too, though in a different way. It gives the story a powerful spiritual side, and many of the more obscure passages leap into life once you re-read them with an understanding of what they refer to (e.g. Frodo's vision of Valinor in Bombadil's house).

Decline is certainly a theme amongst these histories, however, as is lineage, and decline is often directly attributed to those of pure-blood "mingling with lesser men". This is in parallel with the "fading" of elves and estrangement between the races.

One specific aspect of men's "decline" is mortality. The more men fear death and try to postpone it, the more corrupt and corruptible they become.

I didn't share the disappointment with the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. I found it very poignant, as you might have guessed from the above. At last Arwen understands the despair of the "Iluvatar's Gift" to men, and, broken by grief, she lies down to die in Lorien. Contrast this with Aragorn's acceptance of death, ending his life willingly, rather than clinging on until "unmanned and witless" (can't remember where that phrase came from but I'm sure it's in there somewhere).

[Gordis]

Well, I was quite confident this morning that I could successfully nitpick on each and every argument;
I am afraid that is what you are doing - nitpicking.
Really, did you really need the word "war" in the draft to understand the meaning of that "strife" that led to decline and to end of two of the three Royal lines?

burning of Osgiliath is not numbered among the great catastrophes - it is most likely an outcome, not a cause.
So you say it was no biggie because it is not numbered among the Great catastrophes? Capitol city burned and abandoned, the Great palantir lost - all these are just minor problems?

Since no such a speculation can be backed with facts, I will refrain.
I said North dunedain were few - because only 30 came South to Aragorn. You say they were not few. OK. Now to come to something we need an estimate.

I have a hard time trying to understand your point. Perhaps you could rephrase.
Appeal to authority, without any othe argument, constitutes a logical fallacy in a debate :p

"Mere ancestry isn't an automatic qualifier." you said. I said: "no, in Tolkien's word it is". I didn't say it is so for me (meaning I don't think that in the modern word a duke is better than a commoner). Neither did I say that it was so for Tolkien in the real world he lived in.
But in the world he created, in Middle Earth, ancestry means A LOT.
A descendant of Elendil is nobler than a descendant of Mardil, (also wiser, stronger even taller... :)) - even though both are destant relatives.
Elrond was after all the "son of the star" (!) :D , no wonder he believed his daughter too good for a mortal ranger, a wannabe king without a kingdom.
And in the world of Tolkien's creation such views were perfectly normal and common.
Sure even the weakest creatures could sometimes (very rarely in fact) matter a lot, but that bore little impact on the conception of lineage and nobility.

[Gordis]

this quote.. could hardly be too indicative of how quickly the North declined. It's basically summarizing 3000 years of history into two sentences.
Sure, but there is no better one. If we cut it in parts, and take in account the dating of events mentioned here, we can still see how the decline progressed.

In fact - it's hard for me to imagine - the descendants of four Numenorean shiploads, suffering great loss at war and at the Gladden Fields, continuing to decline for the next several hundred years, then splitting into three kingdoms that were at war for a few generations... and still there was even a kingdom for Angmar to over-run in 1974! That tells me that the "decline" was an overall trend, but that they probably had their ups and downs along the way - prosperity, then a setback, a recover, a deeper setback, etc. I agree. But still the overall trend is evident. I think their negative attitude to intermixing with ME "barbarians" was the reason of it all. It must have led to inbreeding and that to infertility and high children mortality.
Look at the Shire hobbits. I think initially the hobbits who came to settle in the Shire in 1600 were fewer than the Dunedain in the four ships of Elendil. And they have hardly settled in their new land, that they were decimated by the Plague (1636). But look at them later! High reproduction rate means a lot.

As for how many more rangers there were in the north - you could give me a number, I could give you a number, but it wouldn't matter much because it'd be a guess either way: 600? 1000? 2000? Who knows. Admittedly, not a whole lot, by standards of an army, but we know they weren't enough to sustain a kingdom at this time. It is all guesswork but one number can be more realistic than another. My guess the overall Northern Dunedain population numbered less than a thousand. Rangers? 1-2 hundred at best. Apart of already mentioned 30 Rangers who were all who came South, consider that they passed through Bree by very small groups. Also consider, that the Shire by 1318 was likely the most heavily guarded territory in all of Eriador (except the Angle maybe). How many were there at the Sarn Ford? It was called "a small guard of Rangers". I guess 10-20, no more. Nazgul made short work of them. And on all the long hike Bree-Rivendell Aragorn and Co met not a single one.

At last Arwen understands the despair of the "Iluvatar's Gift" to men, and, broken by grief, she lies down to die in Lorien. Contrast this with Aragorn's acceptance of death, ending his life willingly, rather than clinging on until "unmanned and witless" (can't remember where that phrase came from but I'm sure it's in there somewhere).
Yes that was the best part of the tale. It shows that to really understand the despair and ambiguity of the "Gift" one has to be mortal himself. Contrast that with the hautiness of the ambassadors the Valar sent to Numenor to explain to mortals the error of their ways (Akkalabeth). They were never able to understand...
Actually, I was disappointed not with the Tale of A&A itself but with the romantic story in it. Arwen as compared to Luthien is nothing but a wax doll, going with the tide and wining at the end.

[Butterbeer]

she turned to booze???

oh- you mean whining?

Nice work Val. A longish summary indeed.

Yes, those infamous 'lying' 2 words...'the end' that troubled PJ so much.
For myself i started the appendices on (after) my first reading- dipped in at first, skimmed around and as yourself, thought blimey, there's some good stories in here - plus the histories of the remaining three hobbits until Sam finally takes the boat was a nice touch.

All those children! ..almost as bad as BJ!

It was rather like finding a secret garden at the time as i recall. :)

I actually came across LOTR as a small nipper at the Manchester Odeon on Oxford street one rainy day back when - i was quite small and with my father and brother we saw the animated part1 of the LOTR .... didn't really understand what was going on but i remember being scared when the Blackrider almost senses them by the tree root off the road ... :eek: (i still remember that!)

Later my dad read to me (and my brother and sisters) the hobbit which i then read myself later and then the LOTR ... and thus the Appendices.

As i say a little gem.

..............

Not much of a "love story" for me - more a device, although i agree with eddy about the quoted moment from cerin Amroth.
I too doubt there were more than 200 (at very best count) Rangers, if by that we mean seasoned fighters. But what i was wondering was, those that were in the north as Gor says must surely have been keeping an eye on the Shire, yet lo and behold some thugs come up from the Greenway and the south and bamboozle the place ... what happened to the Rangers of the North?

personally i think 30 was the greater part of them, or not far off. Look at the trouble Bree had too - there were hardly an rangers around it seems.

[Butterbeer]

1. How much of this material do you think Tolkien had worked out in advance, or while he was still working on the story - and what do you think maybe came as an "afterthought"?

2. What do you see from actual history? Did Tolkien copy particular histories or "borrow" episodes? Do any particular characters seem like real historical characters? Which ones, and who are they like?

3. What interests you about either Arnor or Gondor? Name some contrasts you see between the two.

- - - - - - -

Additional questions:

4. What do you like or not like about the story of Aragorn and Arwen?

5. Point out some things in the Appendix account that come to completion in the LOTR story - where the Appendix sort of "ties things together". In other words - what seeds planted in the Appendix bear fruit in the LOTR story?

6. Do you observe any consistent themes?

:p is it just me - but do these really sound like school essay questions? :D It's the phrasing i think :D

5) - the obvious one would be the Tree! Again as you yourself state and has been mentioned, it is the coming full circle of Man and elf and the blood Lines of the Numenoreans right back to Aragron and Arwen and the replenishing of the granduer of the bloodline, the re-unity of that heritage. Again the symbolism with the white tree.

Boromir I and Boromir II was a nice touch i thought. Also the Icemen and the loss of the palantir etc.

[Valandil]

Thanks for the compliments BB and Gordis - and you too Gaffer! Glad you found it readable. I was afraid it would be WAY too long to hold interest, and entertained doing a chopped up version consisting of maybe one fourth - but time ran out on me anyway and I wanted to post on time.

BB - you're right about the questions. I had a real hard time thinking of any good ones.

In fact - I've meant to mention all along that I would welcome any of YOU asking some additional questions, if you think of any you'd like to have discussed.

:)

[jammi567]

Wow! good work.

I haven't really read the appendices in ages. i only mainly dip in, so i'll leave this to the experts. :)

[Gordis]

I think this quote captures the very essence of the Appendix A:

They heard of the Great Barrows, and the green mounds, and the stone-rings upon the hills and in the hollows among the hills. Sheep were bleating in flocks. Green walls and white walls rose. There were fortresses on the heights. Kings of little kingdoms fought together, and the young Sun shone like fire on the red metal of their new and greedy swords. There was victory and defeat; and towers fell, fortresses were burned, and flames went up into the sky. Gold was piled on the biers of dead kings and queens; and mounds covered them, and the stone doors were shut; and the grass grew over all. Sheep walked for a while biting the grass, but soon the hills were empty again. A shadow came out of dark places far away, and the bones were stirred in the mounds. Barrow-wights walked in the hollow places with a clink of rings on cold fingers, and gold chains in the wind.’ Stone rings grinned out of the ground like broken teeth in the moonlight.

I love this "the young Sun shone like fire on the red metal of their new and greedy swords". It is so well written.

However, now that I think about it, it somehow doesn't fit very well with the image of the old declining civilization we get from the Appendices... More like building of the young new kingdoms...

[The Gaffer]

Doesn't that quote come from In the House of Tom Bombadil?

[Spock]

nevermind :eek:

[Earniel]

To think the Dutch translation completely omits the appendices! It was only later that I noticed that my friend, who had just bought the English version, had a list of angerthas and tengwar in her copy! I then had no option but to buy the English version, which I was already planning on but then I at least had an excuse. :p Never regretted it, the appendices hold a wealth of info I hate to go without.

The White Tree planted by Tarondor died the same year as the steward Belecthor II. No replacement could be found, so it was kept standing, “until the king returns.�
The dying of the Gondorean White Tree doesn't seem to be a random effect, it always coincides with a death of a ruler. But does any of you have an idea why the Trees died when they did? The Tree that died with the death of King Telemnar and his children seems obvious enough. The direct line is broken and a nephew takes the throne and moves it to Minas Anor.

But why didn't the Tree die at the death of Ondoher and his sons when the line was again broken big time? Or why did it not die when the kingship effectively died out in Gondor with the unspecified death of Eärnur? What was so special about Steward Belecthor II that the Tree followed suit at his death and not at a seemingly more significant earlier event?

How much of this material do you think Tolkien had worked out in advance, or while he was still working on the story - and what do you think maybe came as an "afterthought"?
I think much of the events of the Second Aera were developed during the writing of LoTR. Eventually he also linked to the Silmarillion tales which already existed before. I don't remember a specific time line, but I daresay the idea of sunken Númenor seemed to exist in some capacity, yet not yet linked into Middle-earth.

What do you see from actual history? Did Tolkien copy particular histories or "borrow" episodes? Do any particular characters seem like real historical characters? Which ones, and who are they like?
The Plague that hits Gondor and Arnor pretty hard must have been based on the pest-plague in Medieval Europe.

What do you like or not like about the story of Aragorn and Arwen?
It certainly explained a few things. I remember Arwen's sudden appearance at the end somewhat confused me on my first LoTR-reading. And Aragorn's words at Cerin Amroth had me clueless. The appendix-story makes a lot clearer, although I somewhat agree with Gordis that it seems much of an after-thought. It could have been improved on if Tolkien had had more time to flesh it out.

I didn't share the disappointment with the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. I found it very poignant, as you might have guessed from the above. At last Arwen understands the despair of the "Iluvatar's Gift" to men, and, broken by grief, she lies down to die in Lorien. Contrast this with Aragorn's acceptance of death, ending his life willingly, rather than clinging on until "unmanned and witless" (can't remember where that phrase came from but I'm sure it's in there somewhere).Yes, the contrast between both takes on mortality is striking. It is curious enough that Arwen doesn't seem to put much stock into being able to meet Aragorn again beyond the limits of the Arda, while he does.

[Valandil]

:
:
The dying of the Gondorean White Tree doesn't seem to be a random effect, it always coincides with a death of a ruler. But does any of you have an idea why the Trees died when they did? The Tree that died with the death of King Telemnar and his children seems obvious enough. The direct line is broken and a nephew takes the throne and moves it to Minas Anor.

But why didn't the Tree die at the death of Ondoher and his sons when the line was again broken big time? Or why did it not die when the kingship effectively died out in Gondor with the unspecified death of Eärnur? What was so special about Steward Belecthor II that the Tree followed suit at his death and not at a seemingly more significant earlier event?
:
:

I think there was something special about Belecthor II - but I have no idea what it was.

This goes beyond the information in the Appendices, but in HOME 12: "The Heirs of Elendil" - we see that Belecthor lived to be 120. You have to go back 8 generations of Stewards to find one who lived longer - and none after him lived to be any more than 100.

That's very unusual for how Tolkien lays out the ages that characters in his lineages reach. Among the Dunedain, they are always shortening - consistently. Belecthor II may be the only exception - besides Aragorn (except for much smaller variances among Stewards).

So - I wonder if Tolkien either had something special in mind for Belecthor - or else if he wanted to at least ALLOW for something special about Belecthor, and was going to get around to thinking what it was later.

[Earniel]

Interesting tidbit about Belecthor II's age. I wonder what Tolkien wanted to add to his life, but never came around to.