Chapter two-the vanishing glass

[jammi567]

Chapter 2 starts off by saying how everything’s stayed the same, but only pictures of Dudley show how times have changed. We are then formally introduced to Harry, and how everybody treats him. We’re told that it’s ‘Big D’s’ birthday, and what type of presents he’s got but never uses. We are then given a description of Harry.

Jo said in an interview that his eyes were going to be important to the story, yet we haven’t been given a reason. So what do you think the importance is?

Dudley comes into the room, is given a description, and then complains that there’s one less present then last year. Petunia answers a call, and comes back saying that Mrs Figg has broken her leg.

Has she or hasn’t she?

Harry then remembers that he hates going to her place, and that he was forced to look at her cats. Vernon and Petunia talk about what they should do with him, and conclude that they have to take him with them to the zoo. Vernon takes Harry and tells him that if anything should go wrong, then he takes all the blame. We are then told of Harry’s past experiences with the hair coming back after she cut it and that he was laughed at school for wearing sell taped glasses, and baggy old clothes. Also, the other experience of finding himself on the roof of the school after running from Dudley’s gang.

Where did he get his glasses from? Was the last experience Apparition or Levitation?

Whist in the car to the zoo, Harry tells everyone that he dreamed about a flying motorbike. This, of course, is from when Hagrid took him to the Dursley’s ten years ago. This gets Vernon mad, of course. When they arrive, they go around and see the animals. In the afternoon, they go to the reptile house, where they see a massive python. Dudley says that it’s boring and walks away. The snake looks at Harry and winks. Harry stares and for good reason. Snakes can’t wink because they don’t have eyelids, nor can they hear sounds unless they’re vibrations on the floor!

Do you think there is any reason for Jo to do this, except to introduce unknowingly us to Parseltounge?

Dudley pushes him out the way, and Harry unknowingly does a non-verbal Vanishing spell on the glass. This let’s the snake out and escape.

A possibility here, but could this snake be Nagini that we first see at the beginning of the forth book?

Once they get home, Vernon sends him to the cupboard for a week with no meals. We are then told that if Harry thinks long and hard, he can see a blinding flash of green light and his scare hurts a lot. The text then goes into what some of the former Order members do when they see him. Finally, it ends on a note that he had no friends because no-one wanted to get on the wrong side of Dudley’s gang.

(I hope this is ok, because this was done on very short notice, and I didn’t have a lot of time to do it in because I wanted it to put up as quickly as possible).

[durinsbane2244]

as to mrs. figg, that's a very very good point! i see no reason why she should lie about it, as she knew that harry was, however unhappy, better off with her than the dursleys. but it seems odd that, though she herself couldn't do anyting, she wouldn't have any wizarding friends that could fix it...unless of course the accident happened in front of muggles, to whom she couldn't explain a sudden mending...hm...*walks of pondering*

[jammi567]

Maybe she faked it because dd had the idea already that Harry is a possible Horcrux (maybe even as soon as dd first seeing him after his parents died ie. 1st November), and he wanted to test if it was true. Therefore, Figg 'broke' her leg because I would think she knew the Dusley's would be going to the zoo. So after it happened, she might've found out about it somehow, and reported it to dd. Therefore, dd knew Harry was a parselmouth all through the ps/ss and part of the way through cs, before anyone else found out about it.

[durinsbane2244]

why would that test if he was a horcrux? honestly, i doubt JK had even thought of those at this point. the first was a children's book. also, he believed that Voldy had giving Harry some powers anyway, so knowing he was a parselmouth doesn't mean he knows he's a horcrux.

[jammi567]

How do you know when that chapter was writen. it might've been writen any time between 1990-97. and just because it's a childrens book (although you can't really call it that, what with Quirrel drinking blood, and having someone sticking out the back of his head), doesn't mean that she can't not mention something this early in the series that doesn'y fully appear for another six books.

[sun-star]

Dudley comes into the room, is given a description, and then complains that there’s one less present then last year. Petunia answers a call, and comes back saying that Mrs Figg has broken her leg.

Has she or hasn’t she?

She might have done, and there were no wizards around to fix it; or it might just be an excuse because she's going somewhere in the wizarding world and she doesn't want to tell the Dursleys about it.

Where did he get his glasses from?

The NHS...

Whist in the car to the zoo, Harry tells everyone that he dreamed about a flying motorbike. This, of course, is from when Hagrid took him to the Dursley’s ten years ago. This gets Vernon mad, of course. When they arrive, they go around and see the animals. In the afternoon, they go to the reptile house, where they see a massive python. Dudley says that it’s boring and walks away. The snake looks at Harry and winks. Harry stares and for good reason. Snakes can’t wink because they don’t have eyelids, nor can they hear sounds unless they’re vibrations on the floor!

Do you think there is any reason for Jo to do this, except to introduce unknowingly us to Parseltounge?

I think it's just another way of showing us unusual events which we later find out are magic, like the haircut, jumping onto the roof etc. Also, Harry's conversation with the snake shows the reader that he's a sympathetic boy who can take an interest in other people (or snakes), unlike Dudley and Piers.

Dudley pushes him out the way, and Harry unknowingly does a non-verbal Vanishing spell on the glass. This let’s the snake out and escape.

A possibility here, but could this snake be Nagini that we first see at the beginning of the forth book?

I got the impression Nagini had been with Voldemort most of the time he was in exile, not just three years, but I might be wrong about that.

[durinsbane2244]

i doubt that nagini was in the zoo, it just seems to be to far of a shot...

[jammi567]

Was the last experience Apparition or Levitation? i recon that it was appiration because he just appeared suddenly. ans anyway, no human can levitate except on a broomstick.

[durinsbane2244]

well...in the forth book he did use the levitation spell to get out of the water...i think...unless that was just the film...

[jammi567]

checked relevent chapter, and nothing of that sort happens, so it's just a film thing. anyways, that reference to humans not levitating in 'Quidditch through the ages'.

[durinsbane2244]

what about in the POA when DD "magicked" harry onto a stretcher? i'm sure he just lifted him and set him down wiiiiiiiiiiith....[drumroll, please] levitation! :D

[jammi567]

"no spell yet devised enables wizards to fly unaided in human form"
Chapter 1 - QA.

[durinsbane2244]

unaided. see. he was aided by magic. :D

[jammi567]

the point is, that unless subconsusly knew how to do theat spell non-verbally, it had to be apperation. i know he can get a licence for it for another seven books, but surely that's easier then not knowing a latin spell that he hasn't learnt yet, and doing it in a way that he struggles to do with similer spells in his sixth year.

[durinsbane2244]

ah, but i don't think he had a "clear picture" or "strong will" to go on the roof! apparition doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would happen that way, and especially where someone wasn't trying to go...

[jammi567]

for some strange reason, wanting to escape to anywhere from a gang that has made your life a misery for the past 10 years, shows me that he had a "strong will". sure, he probally didn't want to end up on the roof, but still...

[durinsbane2244]

well, here's a point. as they were chasing him, they probably were able to see him. it was their conclusion that he was "caught on a gust of wind". if they thought that happened, he had to have actually ascending instead of dissapearing and reappearing, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to explain it at all. therefore, i still don't think it was apparation...

[jammi567]

it says that "Harry supposed...". since when has he been acurate in what true apperation is like, and every time he's been "levitated", he's conveniantly been unconsuce. and from the way the text is written, it reads like he appeared suddenly, because if magically "levitated", he wouldv'e felt himself being "levitated", and as everything is from his point of view, i think it would've been described, even if not named.

[durinsbane2244]

so do you think when he was unconscious someone apparated him onto a stretcher with a wand? i think not.

[jammi567]

so do you think when he was unconscious someone apparated him onto a stretcher with a wand? i think not.
*sarcastic ha ha* no, what i mean is, everytime he is levitated, he is also unconsus. therefore he doesn't know what that feeling is like still, after six books. therefore, at this point in time of the series, where he has no idea that magic can exsist, he just assumes that it was the wind, because he doesn't know any better.

[durinsbane2244]

reading from here, i think you just unintentionally backed me up that it WAS levitation and not apparition....HA! :p

[jammi567]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O! :D i-i-i meant to say that he asumes that it's the wind because there's no other thing it could be. but if you read QA, it says that no human can fly unaided. therefore, it must be apperation. also, just because in book six, he does side along apperation, and that it's painful, doesn't mean that it is painful when you do it on your own. otherwise, why would wizards does it at all? and if it was painful, when harry and co. are doing apperation lessions, why isn't there any mention of it being so?

[durinsbane2244]

er, because they never managed it, o' course. DD said that all wizards feel it and you just get used to it, i believe. also, what if he just made, say, his shoes fly or something?

[jammi567]

what, make them fly by throwing them off the top of the stairs!

[jammi567]

to settle this argument once and for all, i'll PM someone who has read the books, but hasn't joined in the argument, and ask them what their opinion is. once they've given their answer, we'll leave it at that, because otherwise, this could go on forever (or until someone asks JK herself about the incident of course).

[durinsbane2244]

well...ok than..i suppose thats fair...i do enjoy a good debate though... :D

[jammi567]

yes...except this isn't so much a debate as "i'm right, you're wrong", "no, i'm right, and you're wrong" etc.

[durinsbane2244]

HA! yes. well. gotta take what you can get, eh? ;)

[jammi567]

well, yes i guess.

[durinsbane2244]

yes. so. back on topic....er....any other questions?

[Spock]

Ok, I'll weigh in on this.

As Harry had no recollection of **how** he got on top of the roof, levitation is ruled out. One would be conscious of leaving the ground, etc. Spontaneous apparition seems to be the answer as he went and hid behind the dust bins and 'next thing he knew he was on the chimney'.

This after re-reading the chapter, checking HP sites and such, is my take on the question. :cool:

[durinsbane2244]

blast. foiled again...i shall return in greater force!!! *strikes dramatic pose* TO THE SKIES!!!! *flies away*

[tolkienfan]

I always thought that it was levitation, but after jammi and Spocks' arguments I changed my mind. I think it was more likely apperation, but how is this really important? :confused:

[durinsbane2244]

hm...A VALID POINT! we've spent a few days argument in vain! :( ;) :D

[jammi567]

I always thought that it was levitation, but after jammi and Spocks' arguments I changed my mind. I think it was more likely apperation, but how is this really important? :confused:
oh, it's just fun for us to debate about trivia things like that because it makes the whole harry world, and harry himself, that much intersting upon a re-read.

p.s it was durinsbane and me, not Spock, who did all the arguring, but it was him who settled it.

[Butterbeer]

ware! my dear Jammi ...

settled?

so the 'mighty' spock speaks and that is it?

Nay!

there are other powers in this world, many without name ... that existed long before the days of Spock and his muggle viewpoint ...

-are you a muggle too Jammi?

[jammi567]

yes, but it was just easier that way.

p.s you're the craziest person i've met on here yet, you know that. half your posts doen't make the slightest bit of sense, whilst the other half are wows.

[Butterbeer]

...
;)

[durinsbane2244]

man, i wish people went around complimenting me like that...the thanks i get for making sense... :( :p

[jammi567]

oh, yeh, well done for making thoughtful and intersting posts durinebane. so, do you wish to answer another question?

[durinsbane2244]

sadly, jammi, i think not much is left but where harry got his glasses, about his eyes, and parseltongue. so. dursley's bought glasses, the eyes may come into play soon, and yes, intro for parseltongue (coupled with a laugh) oh, and i appriciate that warm, heartfelt, completely true compliment. HA! :D

[jammi567]

feel free to add any questions of yor own, because we seem to have run out of them.

[durinsbane2244]

yes indeed. i've noticed. that's why i said such up over yonder^! ;) :p hm...*goes off to get book*

[jammi567]

so durinsbane, thought of any yet?

[jammi567]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, i've just thought of a question: how does harry know when his birthday is? because i'm sure the dursleys wouldn't tell him to make him happy.

[durinsbane2244]

well, for one thing, i doubt even they're that cruel, and also, if they want to be so "normal", "normal" kids know their birthdays... :D

[jammi567]

very good point.

[durinsbane2244]

i thought so. :D

[sun-star]

The Dursleys would have to tell Harry his birthdate for practical reasons - he couldn't start school without it, for example.

[jammi567]

*total silence as the clock ticks loudly, as someone else, for once, thinks up a new question* :D

[Lizra]

The only question I have is "I wonder why the Dursleys are so unimportant to the latest books....will they make a *comeback* of sorts for the final book?....I vote maybe..... :p

[mithrand1r]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, i've just thought of a question: how does harry know when his birthday is? because i'm sure the dursleys wouldn't tell him to make him happy.

It may be through the school systems. Schools normally request for a date of birth for their records and probably to check and see if the required vacinations have been received by the appropriate dates.

[mithrand1r]

The only question I have is "I wonder why the Dursleys are so unimportant to the latest books....will they make a *comeback* of sorts for the final book?....I vote maybe..... :p

Probably due to the fact that more and more "Action" takes place away from the Dursleys house.

[jammi567]

Probably due to the fact that more and more "Action" takes place away from the Dursleys house.
And also the fact that they're becoming less and less important to the story as a whole.

[Lizra]

And also the fact that they're becoming less and less important to the story as a whole.

Yes...I think this is a mistake though....we need to get back to our roots a little....imo, I want more Dursley action.

[Butterbeer]

this, i feel is the real zeitgeist question of our times!

i vote.... maybe not ...but possibly ;)

Cast you votes good people ... lets have a vote-in!!

[Butterbeer]

Yes...I think this is a mistake though....we need to get back to our roots a little....imo, I want more Dursley action.


Dursley on Dursley????

[Lizra]

Dursley on Dursley????

:D No....I don't think so, too much fat :eek: ......I still want more drama from Petunia though. Some sister anquish would be good. Lets bring back some pain from the past to really get Harry's juices flowing......

[Lizra]

this, i feel is the real zeitgeist question of our times!

i vote.... maybe not ...but possibly ;)

Cast you votes good people ... lets have a vote-in!!

I agree!

Cast your vote for "Bringin it on Home" to the Dursley pad in the last book.......

A. could be
B. perhaps.....
C. It's a possiblity
D. You might have something there!
E. I'd hit it! :p

[jammi567]

Here's (http://community.livejournal.com/hp_essays/40108.html) a interesting essay i've just found, that shows who was really more emotionally hurt before Harry went to Hogwarts. what do you think?

[Lizra]

:D what do I think? :rolleyes: :D, Well.....F*** Diddums :p

In the last book, I'd like to see Harry liquify and extract all Dudder's fat through his nostrils. The remaining bag of putrid flesh than is Vernon's son should be turned into jerky and fed to coyotes. :)

[jammi567]

you're disgusting. personally, i would love for Patunia to show Harry the letters she recieved, as well as explaining what she truely thought of her sister.

[durinsbane2244]

disgusting? nay! say not disgusting! say rather, "brilliant!" :D

[jammi567]

disgusting? nay! say not disgusting! say rather, "brilliant!" :D
but then, you're denying answers from him. :)

[jammi567]

just reading this essay here (http://community.livejournal.com/hp_essays/123364.html), and it said:
when he talked to the snake at the zoo in PS, he didn't seem shocked that the snake understood him...a little surprised, but not as shocked as most people would have been.
did anyone else notice that, because i certainlty didn't.

[Lizra]

Well, I think a trip back to the Dursleys is just what Harry needs to open up his veins and let some hate and rage flow....this should be right before a showdown with deatheaters/Voldemort.....or wait...silly me! :o :D she's going to use Harry's "young love" life to initiate the rage that starts things up and enables Harry to really cut loose.....of course he will have to switch his emotions to love again, at the last moment.....to deal the final blow.....riiight? ;) I just hope we don't have to deal with nonstop headaches again :rolleyes: ...... :p

[Lizra]

just reading this essay here (http://community.livejournal.com/hp_essays/123364.html), and it said:

did anyone else notice that, because i certainlty didn't.
No, I didn't either....I think that's a pretty silly statement.

[Lizra]

disgusting? nay! say not disgusting! say rather, "brilliant!" :D

Heh! ;) :D

[jammi567]

No, I didn't either....I think that's a pretty silly statement.
why?

[durinsbane2244]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaand, chapter 3 very soon...PM dispatched tooo...sun-star, i believe... ;)

[Serenoli]

BTW, when you guys were arguing 'levitation' vs 'apparition', someone mentioned (poss. durinsbane) that none of them ever managed apparition. Quite untrue, actually, all of them did manage it; Hermione and Ron even had their tests, and Ron failed because of half an eyebrow. As for Harry, he even took Prof. Dumbledore back from the cave to Hogsmeade.

Btw, what would you call the spell by which Snape was dragged along in Bk3, when he was unconcious? Some form of levitation, perhaps? But thats a discussion for another book, I think...

As for magicking him onto a stretcher, he might just have conjured a stretcher under Harry, and then levitated the stretcher...

[jammi567]

i think it must've been durinsbane because i was arguring for apperation, whist he was for levitation. in the end, i won. :D

[jammi567]

anything else?

[jammi567]

An interesting quote from one of Redhens essays:

"To normal human ears, Parseltongue, when spoken by a human wizard, is a hissing and spitting without drawing breath. When expressed by a snake, however, it is at most a simple hissing of air. Snakes, like most reptiles, hiss because snakes, like all other land animals and amphibians, breathe. Snakes do not, however, produce vocalized sounds, because they do not possess vocal cords.

Neither do they possess eyelids. In Harry's exchange with the boa constrictor in the zoo, however, Harry understood the snake to have both spoken and winked at him. It seems reasonable to assume that both the voice and the wink were some form of psychic projection, which Harry was able to receive, interpret and to respond to in kind, while the exchange remained either inaudible, or unintelligible, and invisible to onlookers."

what do you think?