Book VI, ch. IV & V: The Field of Cormallen; The Steward and the King

[Landroval]

The Field of Cormallen

The chapter begins shortly after the destruction of the ring occurs. Tolkien uses again, to great effect, the changing of perspective, the story being related now from the point of view of the armies of the west.
Gandalf signals the arrival of the eagles and goes with three of them to the rescue of Sam and Frodo from the Crack of Doom. Afterwards, follows the reunification of the fellowship, the recounting of tales and the honoring of the ringbearers.

I was most impressed by several parts of this chapter. Aragorn’s description at the beginning is very powerful, “his eyes gleamed like stars that shine the brighter as the night deepens”; the way Gandalf calls on the captains of the west to “stand still” has a somewhat biblical ring to it. It is also interesting to note how the situation changes for Sam and Frodo, from “falling, worn out, or choked with fumes and heat, or stricken down by despair at last, hiding their eyes from death” to waking up in the mirrific land of Ithilien. To be noted is also Frodos’ reluctance to wear any weapon (altough in letter #195 Tolkien points out that the hero is not a “pacifist” in modern terms).

The way the hobbits are treated is really impressive, from the cheers of the knights, to the song of the ministrel (thus fulfilling Sam’s dream) or to the honoring of Gandalf (as if he was their esquire) and of Aragorn:” And then to Sam's surprise and utter confusion, Aragorn bowed his knee before them; and taking them by the hand, Frodo upon his right and Sam upon his left, he led them to the throne, and setting them upon it, he turned to the men and captains who stood by and spoke, so that his voice rang over all the host, crying: 'Praise them with great praise!'”.

I must say that my most favorite part concerns Sam’s reaction to seeing Gandalf, after waking up: 'Gandalf! I thought you were dead! But then I thought I was dead myself. Is everything sad going to come untrue?”

Questions:
1. How do you think Gandalf perceived the arrival of the eagles? Did Manwe send him the vision?

2. In letter #89, Tolkien states that "I knew I had written a story of worth in 'The Hobbit' when reading it (after it was old enough to be detached from me) I had suddenly in a fairly strong measure the 'eucatastrophic' emotion at Bilbo's exclamation: "The Eagles! The Eagles are coming !'". Was the arrival of the eagles a mirror of the Hobbit? Did Tolkien feel the same about eagles here too?

3. Could the host of the eagles have defeated the nazguls? What was the mandate of the eagles in the fourth age?

4. Does it seem like Sam is getting the “upper hand” in relation with Frodo? He convinces him, for example, to walk away from the Crack of Doom, or to keep the Sting for himself.

5. Why is Sam more hopeful than Frodo? Is it due only to his loyalty?

6. Does the song of the ministrel remind you about the songs of the valor of the noldor?

7. Why did Gandalf say to Gwaihir that he only saved him twice? Who saved Gandalf in the Hobbit?

[Landroval]

Just like the previous chapter, this one begins in a dark mood: doubt and great dread had hung” and the end of Sauron is told from a third perspective.

Central to this chapter is the love story developing between Faramir and Eowyn, which I would like to treat separately. As all around Gondor reacts to the fall of Sauron, Faramir remembers his dream about the fall of Numenor; in letter #163, Tolkien confesses that:” I say this about the 'heart', for I have what some might call an Atlantis complex. Possibly inherited, though my parents died too young for me to know such things about them, and too young to transfer such things by words. Inherited from me (I suppose) by one only of my children, though I did not know that about my son until recently, and he did not know it about me. I mean the terrible recurrent dream (beginning with memory) of the Great Wave, towering up, and coming in ineluctably over the trees and green fields. (I bequeathed it to Faramir.) I don't think I have had it since I wrote the 'Downfall of Numenor' as the last of the legends of the First and Second Age.”I really liked how Tolkien described the departing of the shadow:
And the Shadow departed, and the Sun was unveiled, and light leaped forth; and the waters of Anduin shone like silver, and in all the houses of the City men sang for the joy that welled up in their hearts from what source they could not tell.

Afterwards, a great eagle comes, announcing the victory of the armies of the west and the city prepares for the arrival of the king. He is crowned by Gandalf (“for he has been the mover of all that has been accomplished, and this is his victory”), who blesses him:
'Now come the days of the King, and may they be blessed while the thrones of the Valar endure!'. The king description is awesome:” Tall as the sea-kings of old, he stood above all that were near; ancient of days he seemed and yet in the flower of manhood; and wisdom sat upon his brow, and strength and healing were in his hands, and a light was about him.”

Tolkien goes at great lengths in letter #244 describing the new status of Faramir as steward: “Also to be Prince of Ithilien, the greatest noble after Dol Amroth in the revived Numenorean state of Gondor, soon to be of imperial power and prestige, was not a 'market-garden job' as you term it. Until much had been done by the restored King, the P. of Ithilien would be the resident march-warden of Gondor, in its main eastward outpost - and also would have many duties in rehabilitating the lost territory, and clearing it of outlaws and orc-remnants, not to speak of the dreadful vale of Minas Ithil (Morgul). I did not, naturally, go into details about the way in which Aragorn, as King of Gondor, would govern the realm. But it was made clear that there was much fighting, and in the earlier years of A.'s reign expeditions against enemies in the East. The chief commanders, under the King, would be Faramir and Imrahil; and one of these would normally remain a military commander at home in the King's absence. A Numenorean King was monarch, with the power of unquestioned decision in debate; but he governed the realm with the frame of ancient law, of which he was administrator (and interpreter) but not the maker. In all debatable matters of importance domestic, or external, however, even Denethor had a Council, and at least listened to what the Lords of the Fiefs and the Captains of the Forces had to say. Aragorn re-established the Great Council of Gondor, and in that Faramir, who remained by inheritance the Steward (or representative of the King during his absence abroad, or sickness, or between his death and the accession of his heir) would the chief counsellor.”

Beregond is appointed as chief of the White Company, the Guard of Faramir; I like the bonding between Aragorn and the hobbits, as he asks them to linger a little longer, for “a day draws near that I have looked for in all the years of my manhood, and when it comes I would have my friends beside me.” Gandalf brings Aragorn to the seed of the White Tree – this signifying for Aragorn the fulfilling of his wish concerning Arwen.

As previously, I left for last my favorite bits; the first would be Gandalf’s words: “Many folk like to know beforehand what is to be set on the table; but those who have laboured to prepare the feast like to keep their secret; for wonder makes the words of praise louder”. I would also like to present the love developing between Eowyn and Faramir.

At first, she “looked for death in battle”. In the words of Faramir:
You desired to have the love of the Lord Aragorn. Because he was high and puissant, and you wished to have renown and glory and to be lifted far above the mean things that crawl on the earth. And as a great captain may to a young soldier he seemed to you admirable. For so he is, a lord among men, the greatest that now is. But when he gave you only understanding and pity, then you desired to have nothing, unless a brave death in battle.

However, the moment she perceives his valor (she knew that “here was one whom no Rider of the Mark would outmatch in battle”) “her heart faltered”, “she doubted herself” she felt like a child; then “something in her softened, as though a bitter frost were yielding at the first faint presage of Spring. A tear sprang in her eye and fell down her cheek, like a glistening rain-drop. Her proud head drooped a little” and “her voice was now that of a maiden young and sad.”

Faramir declares his admiration of her beauty: “I say to you that you are beautiful. In the valleys of our hills there are flowers fair and bright, and maidens fairer still; but neither flower nor lady have I seen till now in Gondor so lovely, and so sorrowful.” He later declares that: these days “have brought me both a joy … that I never thought to know. Joy to see you; … I would not have this world end now, or lose so soon what I have found.'

Now, all this does not go around with no effect: “And as they stood so, their hands met and clasped, though they did not know it and “their hair, raven and golden, streamed out mingling in the air”. interestingly enough, Eowyn does not wish to go to Cormallen - because she apparently still loves Aragorn; but after he declares his love once again “For you are a lady high and valiant and have yourself won renown that shall not be forgotten; and you are a lady beautiful, I deem, beyond even the words of the Elven-tongue to tell. And I love you.”, her heart “changed, or else at last she understood it. And suddenly her winter passed, and the sun shone on her”. I really like the scene of their kiss, it reminds me of Finwe and Indis falling in love, under the light of the Trees):

And he took her in his arms and kissed her under the sunlit sky, and he cared not that they stood high upon the walls in the sight of many. And many indeed saw them and the light that shone about them as they came down from the walls and went hand in hand to the Houses of Healing. It is interesting to see how Eowyn changed her attitude:” Yet now that I have leave to depart, I would remain. For this House has become to me of all dwellings the most blessed.”

Questions

1. The Warden of the Houses of Healing states that “and it is a thing passing strange to me that the healing hand should also wield the sword.” In Laws and customs of the Eldar, The Later Quenta Silmarillion, it is stated that: “the arts of healing, and all that touches on the care of the body, are among all the Eldar most practised by the nissi; whereas it was the elven-men who bore arms at need. And the Eldar deemed that the dealing of death, even when lawful or under necessity, diminished the power of healing, and that the virtue of the nissi in this matter was due rather to their abstaining from hunting or war than to any special power that went with their womanhood. Indeed in dire straits or desperate defence, the nissi fought valiantly, and there was less difference in strength and speed between elven-men and elven-women that had not borne child than is seen among mortals. On the other hand many elven-men were great healers and skilled in the lore of living bodies, though such men abstained from hunting, and went not to war until the last need. “.How come Aragorn is both a warrior and a most skilled healer?

2. They were clad in warm raiment and heavy cloaks, and over all the Lady Eowyn wore a great blue mantle of the colour of deep summer-night, and it was set with silver stars about hem and throat. Faramir had sent for this robe and had wrapped it about her; and he thought that she looked fair and queenly indeed as she stood there at his side. The mantle was wrought for his [B]mother, Finduilas of Amroth, who died untimely, and was to him but a memory of loveliness in far days and of his first grief; and her robe seemed to him raiment fitting for the beauty and sadness of Eowyn.
Freud anyone? :D

3. Did writing about the fall of numenor exorcised his atlantis complex? Is this an example of healing art?

4. How do you think did the rest of the world perceive the fall of Sauron?

5. How did the eagle know about the replanting of the white tree?
And the Tree that was withered shall be renewed,
and he shall plant it in the high places,
and the City shall be blessed.

6. Do you agree with Eowyn renouncing to be a shieldmaiden?

7. Does Faramir have the authority to change tradition, concerning the crowning of the king?

8. Why does Aragorn consider as a possibility that his wish concerning Arwen would not be granted? What would have happened indeed?

9. Does the removing of the withered tree in the Rath Dinen signify the “burrying” of the old age?

10. How does Gandalf know about the scion of Telperion?

[jammi567]

A bloody good summery, and excelent discussion points. i'll only answer one for the minute.

5. How did the eagle know about the replanting of the white tree?
And the Tree that was withered shall be renewed,
and he shall plant it in the high places,
and the City shall be blessed.

Because the eagle was Manwe's, and he has foresight to know when certain things were going to happen.

[Gordis]

Good summary, Landroval. Great job. :)
A bloody good summery, and excelent discussion points. i'll only answer one for the minute.

5. How did the eagle know about the replanting of the white tree?
And the Tree that was withered shall be renewed,
and he shall plant it in the high places,
and the City shall be blessed.

Because the eagle was Manwe's, and he has foresight to know when certain things were going to happen.

I would say because Gandalf the trickster has smuggled the seedling out of Valinor on his last visit there, and the Eagle saw it while transporting Gandalf AND the seedling from Zirak-Zigil to Lorien. :p :D

[jammi567]

[B]1. How do you think Gandalf perceived the arrival of the eagles? Did Manwe send him the vision?

Wasn't there something in UT about gandalf being a maiar in Manwe's servace. so maybe when he was dead in body, Manwe told him councils to help him make the right choices for the quest to do well eg. sending eagles to save Sam and Frodo.

[The Gaffer]

IIRC Gandalf/Olorin was one of Mandos's dudes.

Gandalf perceived "many things that are hidden" and seems to have inherited his boss's predilection for portentious ambiguity.

Top summary and some great points, Landroval.

I just have to chip in and ask if anyone thought that "The Eagles are Coming" kinda spoiled it. You know, the cavalry coming to the rescue again.

However I will say that, as true servants of Manwe, signifying all that is pure and noble, the Eagles would have the Nazgul any day of the week. Why they didn't before now is the moot point.

EDIT: also, while I remember, I don't mind admitting that the Field of Cormallen choked me up big style the first time of reading, and still brings a lump to the throat. While I can scoff at the hackneyed intervention of some avian cliches, I can only admire the man's ability to pull it off. We, the audience, have had two and a half books of tension building, to be released in a final instant, so JRRT gives us an entire chapter to let it out. Genius.

Anyone else using lines like "Praise them with great praise" would be laughed off the stage. (What are we supposed to praise them with? Shopping?)

[The Gaffer]

4. Does it seem like Sam is getting the “upper hand” in relation with Frodo? He convinces him, for example, to walk away from the Crack of Doom, or to keep the Sting for himself.

5. Why is Sam more hopeful than Frodo? Is it due only to his loyalty?

The answer to both of these is linked.

In casting off (or getting rid of) the Ring, Frodo's mission in ME is at an end. I would see his abjuration of arms being about disengaging from the world: "it is lost".

Ultimately, Sam is the central character to the story. It is he who never loses hope, which is the major theme of the book. He also provides continuity across the "before and after" of the end of the Third Age. His hobbit sense prevails as the most admirable characteristic, and he's rewarded more greatly than any other in the story, except perhaps Aragorn.

[jammi567]

3. Could the host of the eagles have defeated the nazguls? What was the mandate of the eagles in the fourth age?
Yes, afterall, good vs. evil, you know.

what meaning do you mean of mandate.

[Landroval]

By mandate, I mean what was their mission, if they had any (that is, if they stayed around anyway).
In of Aule and Yavanna, Manwe states that:
In the mountains the Eagles shall house, and hear the voices of those who call upon us
and in Of the return of the noldor it is said:
For Manwe to whom all birds are dear, and to whom they bring news upon Taniquetil from Middle-earth, had sent forth the race of Eagles, commanding them to dwell in the crags of the North, and to keep watch upon Morgoth; for Manwe still had pity for the exiled Elves
now, Men don't know of the valar, nor is there 'proper' worshipping in Middle-Earth; neither should the eagles be around to watch out for the noldor. In the Hobbit, the northern eagles kick orc behinds around the clock, but I doubt that orcs will be around for long in the fourth age.

[jammi567]

By mandate, I mean what was their mission, if they had any (that is, if they stayed around anyway).
in that case, i don't think that they protroled middle earth after sauron was sucked into the void. afterall a) the main people they were meant to look after (the elves) were disappearing and b) the two main evil guys they were protecting them from (morgoth and sauron) had gone forever. And c) the forth age probally comparactivly sucked after three ages of high packed action and drama, and they didn't want to hang around to be bored to death.

[jammi567]

anyone else?

[The Telcontarion]

Very well done Landroval. Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier (I wonder Why). It's so well done, that I can only attempt to answer the first 3 questions.

Questions:
1. How do you think Gandalf perceived the arrival of the eagles? Did Manwe send him the vision?

ANS. I never saw it as Manwe having anything to do with the ssending the eagles. I always thought that at that time Valar withdreww extensively there influence in the world; evidenced by ulmo's lack of involvement. The sending of the astari was there way of involing themselves with midlle-earth; the vehicles as it were. Also evidenced by the fact that the astari where not in there full might and majesty as maia spirits, but were bounded by mortal forms and had to use whatever powers where available in the world. So, I always saw the coming of the eagles as a matter of fact, as all races played their part in that final conflict.

2. In letter #89, Tolkien states that "I knew I had written a story of worth in 'The Hobbit' when reading it (after it was old enough to be detached from me) I had suddenly in a fairly strong measure the 'eucatastrophic' emotion at Bilbo's exclamation: "The Eagles! The Eagles are coming !'". Was the arrival of the eagles a mirror of the Hobbit? Did Tolkien feel the same about eagles here too?

ANS. This is also a major reason why I think that the eagles had nothing to do with Manwe, it was a nostagic nod to the hobbit; it was beautifully done. I also think the eagles did indeed show up for the same reasons in LOTR as in the Hobbit. To play their part.

3. Could the host of the eagles have defeated the nazguls? What was the mandate of the eagles in the fourth age?

I love this question, very intriguing. I think so. I think that the
Nazgul would have exacted a toll on the ranks of the eagles, and pobably not a heavy one either, but none theless I believe the eagles would have destroyed them, one by one; well on horsing them, thus weakening them and making them for the remainder of the battle, of little consequense.

Again great post Landroval, I will try to answer more another time.

[Valandil]

Very well done Landroval. Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier (I wonder Why).
:
:
:

Hello Telcontarion - and welcome to Entmoot.

This thread is part of an ongoing Discussion Project we have on LOTR. You'll find all the subsequent discussion threads in the subforum (at the top of the LOTR Books page).

In fact - I hope we soon get our next assignment up... :)

[The Telcontarion]

Hello Telcontarion - and welcome to Entmoot.

This thread is part of an ongoing Discussion Project we have on LOTR. You'll find all the subsequent discussion threads in the subforum (at the top of the LOTR Books page).

In fact - I hope we soon get our next assignment up... :)

Thank you for welcoming me. You will most certainly see more of me here.

[ringbearer]

Great thread!...Interesting questions!
A bit off-topic here...I look at the eagles as Tolkien's hidden tribute to the U.S.A...
Eagles>Nazgul...eagles would hand them their butts!

[jammi567]

Edited last post by me by the way.

[The Telcontarion]

4. Does it seem like Sam is getting the “upper hand” in relation with Frodo? He convinces him, for example, to walk away from the Crack of Doom, or to keep the Sting for himself.
I think it does seem that Sam is getting the upper hand, but only because IMO, Frodo's will was deminished from the burden of the ring. Tolkien said that "Sam Gamgee is a reflexion of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen he knew in World War One" (Carpenter, Humphrey). I always thought that to mean that, Sam being in a position where all that was left to him was hope, simply held to that and did as he had to, as I believe must of us would.

5. Why is Sam more hopeful than Frodo? Is it due only to his loyalty?
Sure his loyalty and love for his friend and master gave him strength but I also believed as I have stated before about the fact that he was not burdedned by the ring.

6. Does the song of the ministrel remind you about the songs of the valor of the noldor?
Absolutlely, I always saw it as being in the tridition of those great songs of old; pened by Daeron with Maglor doing the vocals. Alas Daeron is no more and Maglor is lost forever!!!:(

7. Why did Gandalf say to Gwaihir that he only saved him twice? Who saved Gandalf in the Hobbit?
This I must confess I do not know, can anyone answer this question, I have not been able to find a clue.

[Earniel]

How do you think Gandalf perceived the arrival of the eagles? Did Manwe send him the vision?
At first I always thought he had heard them coming in some way. Maybe his maia super-hearing sense. ;) Now, I'm not certain anymore, the Eagles would have made some noise at least, but whether it could have been heard above the fighting, is something else entirely. Or maybe something could be heard, like a cry, but no one but Gandalf heard it or recognized it for what it was.

Was the arrival of the eagles a mirror of the Hobbit? Did Tolkien feel the same about eagles here too?
The parallel between both stories is easily made, and I suppose it was intentional.

I figured in the story, maybe Gandalf too was reminded of the Battle of Five Armies, and that's would be why he repeated Bilbo's cry from then.

Could the host of the eagles have defeated the nazguls? What was the mandate of the eagles in the fourth age?
This was exactly what I was wondering when re-reading this bit. I would say the Eagles could match the nazgûl from sheer numbers alone. They don't seem to be subject to the Black Shadow, which would be logical as they're not Men.

I don't think the Eagles would still have a mandate in the fourth age, I always had the impression they decided their own agenda from then on, and helped whom they themselves wanted to aid.

5. Why is Sam more hopeful than Frodo? Is it due only to his loyalty?
Not because of loyalty, I think, but rather his inborn hobbit-optimism.


1. The Warden of the Houses of Healing states that “and it is a thing passing strange to me that the healing hand should also wield the sword.” [...]How come Aragorn is both a warrior and a most skilled healer?I dare say the matter lies differently for Men than for Elves. For Men, or at least the Dúnedain from Gondor, it seem ordained that the King has hands of a healer. A characteristic that would never have worked among the Elves if one goes by the quote you provided.

4. How do you think did the rest of the world perceive the fall of Sauron?
A slight tremor maybe, and a faint feeling of relief, and probably the question: "Hang on, what just happened?" :D

5. How did the eagle know about the replanting of the white tree?
I missed that bit. Maybe some matter of foresight. Or maybe, the Eagle, being able to fly over the mountain, spotted the little tree and recognized it for what it was.

Do you agree with Eowyn renouncing to be a shieldmaiden?
I think it was the right choice for her.

Why does Aragorn consider as a possibility that his wish concerning Arwen would not be granted? What would have happened indeed?
This indeed struck me during the last re-read. Reclaiming Gondor and being crowned King somehow didn't seem enough. And Aragorn seems aware of this, as he is still waiting for something. It would appear there needed to be some sign of favour of the Valar, or some omen that the Line of Kings would be viable. The finding and planting of the little tree seems like it and by the look of things, Elrond percieved this from afar.