Of Mount Doom

[Beren3000]

If we take the Ring to represent sin and evil; couldn't the journey up Mount Doom to get rid of the Ring be comparable to a journey up Mount Purgatory? Would Sam's carrying Frodo up the mountain be seen as the guiding influence of a friend to help you get rid of sin? Any thoughts?

[jammi567]

so all the trials (gollum, shelob etc) were there to mentally prepare Frodo for dramatically ridding the world of evil.

[durinsbane2244]

but frodo failed...he was broken...he succumbed...

[jammi567]

i know that, but what i'm saying is that they were there so that he could do it in the first place, regardless of what happened afterwards.

[Landroval]

but frodo failed
I wouldn't say so; according to letter #246, "his real contract was only to do what he could, to try to find a way, and to go as far on the road as his strength of mind and body allowed." Seeing things from that point of view, he didn't fail, and Tolkien states several times that he justly received all honors.

[durinsbane2244]

oh, well than, true enough!

[Curubethion]

That's a cool idea, an allusion to Purgatory.
But the destruction of the Ring was on March 25, the traditional date of the crucifixion. So I think it's more likely it represents the "descent into Sheol" that's traditionally been accepted by Catholocism.

[Beren3000]

March 25, the traditional date of the crucifixion.
Oh yeah? I never knew that. That's very interesting. But I still think that the comparison to Purgatory holds water because Frodo was quite average after all. IMO, he's meant to represent the struggle of humans against Evil (I used to think of him as a Christ-figure, but I don't anymore)

[jammi567]

I fyou go to this place, you can find out who people think is the Christ figure. http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=13198

[Beren3000]

I already know some Mooters' viewpoints (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=11592) on the matter! :)

[jammi567]

i love the viewpoints on there, especially that Alsan from the Narnia series was meant to be representing Christ!

[Jon S.]

Even if the analogy is accurate that the ring represents sin and evil, Frodo dealt with it by personal action. He did not place his faith in a god/demigod to neutralize the sin/evil but acted to negate it. You can say he succumbed in the end and you can also say the final redemption came as the result of another physical being's (Gollum's) personal action. Be careful with these angles, you truly can read whatever you want into some of this stuff.

[durinsbane2244]

i liked what christopher lee way saying in the interview on the first movie dvd, how samwise was the true hero...the "common man"...

[Landroval]

That is what Tolkien seemed to imply in letter #131:

I think the simple 'rustic' love of Sam and his Rosie (nowhere elaborated) is absolutely essential to the study of his (the chief hero's) character, and to the theme of the relation of ordinary life (breathing, eating, working, begetting) and quests, sacrifice, causes, and the 'longing for Elves', and sheer beauty.

[Beren3000]

Frodo dealt with it by personal action. He did not place his faith in a god/demigod to neutralize the sin/evil but acted to negate it.
That's because depending on a god wouldn't have fitted with the general style of the rest of the story. There were gods in ME, but Tolkien expressed their presence only implicitly in LOTR.

Be careful with these angles, you truly can read whatever you want into some of this stuff.

I'm not reading anything into such an analogy. I'm only saying that Tolkien could've based Mount Doom on Purgatory as a model (just like he based Turin on Oedipus), the possible theological implications that follow are (of course) questionable, but I'm talking about the model itself.