Meryy and Pippin - their importance to the fellowship

[Landroval]

Who do you think was more important to the fellowship, considering their deeds: Merry or Pippin?

[I would have started an "organised" debate, between two teams, but it has been suggested to me to go on an open thread first - would anyone be interested in my idea?]

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I think there is a thread similar to this here. (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=10560) Is this similar to what you want.

[Landroval]

Not quite; (what I had in mind was an organised debate) what that thread apparently deals with is what reasons were there to have them in the fellowship in the first place; what I would propose to discuss is how they used their membership and who had the greater merit in the end, compared to one another. Just thought of giving it a try.

[King of The Istari]

I think they're both quite equal

without Merry Eowin wouldn't have had time to kill the Witch King and without Pippin Faramir would have been dead

I think Tolkien wrote it to have them reletivillly equal characters that both aid the quest If one of them wasn't there it is highly unlikely the ring would have been destroyed, (I think this goes for all the characters not just Merry and Pippin) without even one of the members of the fellowship the quest would have undoubtedly failed.

[Gordis]

I think Merry was far more important than Pip, and less harmful as well. :)

Merry by his well-timed backstab assured the victory at the Pelennor. With the Witch-King in command, I am afraid the battle would have turned ill for Gondor and Minas-Tirith would have been taken even before the arrival of Aragorn.
Well, Pippin saved Faramir, (as Merry saved Eowyn) but what are Faramir's and Eowyn's lives after all?

[CrazySquirrel]

Yes, I agree with Gordis, I vote for Merry!

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Yet it was Pippin who's quick thinking who made it possible for Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli to track them to Fangorn. Without that things may have gone very differently.

[CrazySquirrel]

Yet it was Pippin who's quick thinking who made it possible for Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli to track them to Fangorn. Without that things may have gone very differently.
Yes, but Aragorn etc. never caught up with the hobbits, so tracking them that far was not important. And Gandalf would have found Aragorn anyway.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Yet perhaps not soon enough. If there was no evidence that the hobbits were alive then the hunters may have gone with Eomer to Edoras.
Also if Pippin had not cut his rope with the falen blade then Merry and Pippin may have been killed during the Rohirrim attack on the orcs.

[CrazySquirrel]

Yet perhaps not soon enough. If there was no evidence that the hobbits were alive then the hunters may have gone with Eomer to Edoras.
Also if Pippin had not cut his rope with the falen blade then Merry and Pippin may have been killed during the Rohirrim attack on the orcs.
Yes, our Pippin scored some good points, who doubts.

But Merry was more important on the whole, because of the Pelennor.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I agree, what Merry did on the Pelennor was crucial, yet that would not have been accomplished without Pippin's deeds. Ultimatley both were needed for the quest to succeed.

EDIT: 4000th post!

[CrazySquirrel]

Wauuuu! 4000! Congratulations, TD!!! :) :)

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Merry (along with Eowyn) killed the Witch-King, which eventually led to the winning of the Pelennor Fields and was also one less obstacle for Frodo (not that it helped much).
Pippin saved Faramir and Beregond. He killed the troll-chief, which was about to bite Beregond's throat.

I'd say they're even.

[CrazySquirrel]

Yes, and what was the importance of Faramir and Beregond being alive or dead? Sure, good guys they were both, but I mean the major historical importance?

Without Merry, all the war would have been lost, Minas Tirith taken, both Faramir and Beregond killed in the assault.

[Forfirith]

Pippin has lead also Gandalf to Minas Tirith very quickly by looking in the Palantir, adn if Gandalf hadn't been there Minas Tirith would have probably fallen, Merry or not. And if Merry hadn't "killed" the With-King, don't you think that Gandalf could have broken him ?

[Olmer]

And if Merry hadn't "killed" the With-King, don't you think that Gandalf could have broken him ?
Probably, he could. After all he was maia with a very powerful ring, literally, on the same level with Sauron. But since he was too hesitant (or unwilling :rolleyes: ) "to remove Wikkie from the picture" at the gates of Minas-Tirith, and a little hobbit was brave enough to do maia's job, I'm siding with Crazy Squirrel and Gordis: Merry's deeds were more crucial for development of the new history of Middle -Earth.

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Yes, and what was the importance of Faramir and Beregond being alive or dead? Sure, good guys they were both, but I mean the major historical importance?

Without Merry, all the war would have been lost, Minas Tirith taken, both Faramir and Beregond killed in the assault.
Faramir: Prince of Ithilien. Beregond:"...the Guard of Faramir, Prince of Ithilien, and you shall be its captain..."(RotK The Steward and the King) Historical major importance. (Admit it, anything Tolkien writes is historically important :D )

I agree on the second part, though it's hard to say whether they would have died or not. ;)