View Full Version : What caused Beleriand's destruction?
Olmer
01-28-2006, 10:55 PM
How long it took for Beleriand to sink down?
550-597 The last war of the Elder Days, and the Great Battle, is begun. In this war Beleriand is broken and destroyed. Morgoth is at last utterly overcome, and Angband is unroofed and unmade. Morgoth is bound, and the last two Silmarils are regained.
600 The Elves and the Fathers of Men depart from Middle-earth and pass over Sea. (“Tales of the Lost Years“)
According to this quote Beleriand has been slowly diminishing during the stretch for about 50 years, and in 600 some parts of the land still existed, otherwise from where the survivors had been departing by “building of ships upon the shores of the Western Sea“? Yet, in the "Silmarillion" written that shape of the world was drastically changed in an upheaval of the earth and by the roaring sea coming to land (earthquakes , tsunamies). So it did not happened in one day, and people/elves have had enough time to move on more safe ground.
What might be the cause of such prolonged cataclysmic disturbances?
If it’s the might and the fury of the Valar, then why it took so long?
Lefty Scaevola
01-29-2006, 01:35 AM
"and in 600 some parts of the land still existed, otherwise from where the survivors had been departing by “building of ships upon the shores of the Western Sea“? " some still existing at the time of LoTR, thoses parts of Lindon west of the the Bule Mountains. Basicly much of Ossiriand, and part of TharGelion. The rest of it was fissured (like the one Maedhros threw himself into) from the Valar having ripped strong vein of "Melkor elements" from underneath it and from some elemental forces emplyed in the war. Recall that these are the being that construed the earth. with the bocken under structure and techtonic activity much of the surface sank and settled lower. Such damage to the very Earth is one of the pricipal reason the Valar were releuctant to directly battle Melkor, at least until he was weakened. The same had happen in the previous war against melkor, when his greater underground fortress Uttumo was destroyed. and much landscaped altered in the north of middle earth. I forget which of these two war casue the changes around Cunevien, rsulting in the much smaller Sea of Rhun.
Olmer
01-29-2006, 02:05 PM
I forget which of these two war casue the changes around Cunevien, rsulting in the much smaller Sea of Rhun It was the Second War.
Valar so worried about welfare of the Children of Iluvatar that to free them from Melkor influence they broke much of the land, causing the destruction and change of the land where Elves had been dwelling :evil:
IMHO it's equal to killing with hammer a fly, sitting on window :D
Recall that these are the being that construed the earth. with the bocken under structure and techtonic activity much of the surface sank and settled lower. That's right, could be explained by "tectonic activity".
If we'll hypotethicaly accept that history of ME is the history of our Earth, derived and pieced together from legends and lores of Old by genius of Tolkien, and therefore all processes of nature are similar to ours, than Beleriand's sinking was due to the raise out of the sea of the huge volcano (Meneltarma) and formation of the island. It caused tectonic cracks and their movement resulted in seismic activities.
But then again, such geological distabilization should bring a lot of matter in the air, causing something like a "nuclear winter". I wonder is there any records in the books about something like "darkening of the sky"?
Lefty Scaevola
03-10-2006, 08:45 PM
Three darkenings that I can recall, One under sauron druing the war of the Ring, twice by Melkor/Morgoth. Perhaps there wer more by Melkor. Amd the earlist 'memory' is of awakening under darkness, but tokien has at least two other eplantions for that, One in the publish SIL, and a different one being consider for it revison in Myths Transformed in HoME.
Maerbenn
03-12-2006, 08:03 PM
“Tales of the Lost Years“You probably meant ‘The Tale of Years’.
Olmer
03-15-2006, 02:50 AM
You probably meant ‘The Tale of Years’.
:eek: :o Thanks!! This is what happens when you are trying to read 3 books at once. :) I meant "The Lost Road".
Actually, my curiosity about the cause of Beleriand's destruction prompted by the oddness in passage "Akallabeth" about Numenor's voyages to the Shore of Middle-earth :"For the most of the Men of that age that sat under the Shadow were now grown weak and fearful. And coming among them Numenoreans taught them many things....they instructed Men in the sowing of seeds and grinding of grain, in the hewing of the wood and the shaping of stone.."
As it has been told in the book, Atani and other Men were dwelling in Beleriand for a quite long time, having their own homesteads, i.e. being self-efficient in providing adequate living.
What kind of misfortune could cause people to forget how to do the work, which was means of livelihood for their predecessors, and to come back to the "stone age", forgetting how to work with earth and grain?
My guess that such things might happened when the climate drastically changed, and in spite of hard work, all attempts to harvest turned out to be fruitless and eventually were abandoned and forgotten.
Furthermore, the darkness of the area was mentioned a few times:
"...the voyages of Dunedain in those days went ever eastward and not westward, from the Darkness of the North to the heats of the South"...
"...the Lords of Numenor set foot again upon the western shores in the Dark Years of Men..."
"For most of the Men of that age that sat under the Shadow were grown weak and fearful."
The first what came on mind - such "darkness", which brought up a radical change in the climate, could be explaned by the "nuclear winter".
Any other suggestions? :confused:
Valandil
03-15-2006, 08:25 AM
You know, reading the accounts in Silmarillion, it really sounds like it all happened pretty fast. You would think that the destruction of the war between the Valar and Morgoth brought it about then and there. Yet the Elves survive - and the Edain survive. And there's all this interaction between the Valar and the Elves afterwards (IIRC, that is - I need to re-read... also, I don't have the pertinent HoME books).
However, maybe it WAS a very slow sinking - even taking 100-600 years or more. Suppose the land was just sort of 'tipped down' toward the west and slowly started sinking? From west to east?
That would even allow all the bunnies and squirrels and deer to slowly migrate east. :)
Interesting idea about the tectonics resulting from the creation of Numenor - as well as Eressea.
However, I wonder if the tectonics would work somewhat differently. Remember - the world was flat at the time. It wasn't until the sinking of Numenor that it was 'bent'.
Anytime Tolkien mentions 'darkness' - it's easy to read as a literal darkness - less light to see with our eyes. But I think most of the time he's talking about a spiritual darkness.
Darkness in the north may be literal, without being a nuclear cloud though. The lower angle of the sun (oops - here I'm thinking round earth again - but if the path of the sun was low enough over the earth - thinking mythologically here - there would still be a lower angle to it in the north) makes northern areas somewhat less bright - and in winter of course, the days get extremely short and the nights long. However, 'darkness' here might also be a spiritual thing... there were still enough of Morgoth's creatures running around to trouble the world for ages to come - and they would start out in the north. The dragons even stayed there for good (pun not intended).
Maerbenn
03-18-2006, 09:04 AM
I meant "The Lost Road".Well, the annals that you cited are in ‘The Tale of Years’ in HoMe XI: The War of the Jewels. ;) Remember - the world was flat at the time. It wasn't until the sinking of Numenor that it was 'bent'.As you probably know, that is a highly controversial statement. :)
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.