Why Merry?

[CrazySquirrel]

As you know, Merry (and Eowyn) killed the Witch-King.

But I have just remembered something... In the Barrow-Downs, after being rescued by Tom, it was MERRY who had the following dream:
'What in the name of wonder?' began Merry, feeling the golden circlet that had slipped over one eye. Then he stopped, and a shadow came over his face, and he closed his eyes. 'Of course, I remember!' he said. 'The men of Carn Dûm came on us at night, and we were worsted. Ah! the spear in my heart!' He clutched at his breast. 'No! No!' he said, opening his eyes. 'What am I saying? I have been dreaming. Where did you get to, Frodo?'
It looks like that for a time he was possessed by a spirit of a long-forgotten Dunadan killed in the war of TA 1409, when the Witch-King destroyed Cardolan.

No other hobbit, but Merry, had a similar dream! And it was precisely Merry who killed the Witch-King, though all the four of the hobbits have got the Barrow-blades, potent against the Witch-King.

Do you think it is a simple co-incidence?

[rohirrim TR]

never thought of that before, hmm I'll have to think about that one.

[The Gaffer]

Could be just a coincidence.

However, Merry is far less naive than the rest of the hobbits at the start of the tale, and perhaps knows more about the outside world even than Frodo. You'll recall it is he who leads them into the Old Forest.

Again, there's the bit (and what a tremendous bit it is) after Merry sticks it to the Witch-King about how he who made the blade would be happy to know its fate, as if the revenge of the Dunedain he had slain reached across the centuries to strike the Witch-King down.

Given that, it's probably no coincidence that Merry was given these lines.

[CrazySquirrel]

Perhaps the one who has made the blade was the same one who got killed by the spear in his heart in Merry's dream?

Then it looks like he has chosen Merry as a tool for his vengeance.

By the way, what was his spirit doing in the Barrow-Downs? Was it trapped there by the Witch-King's sorcery? Or has he become a Barrow-Wight? :eek:

[The Gaffer]

The swords themselves were made in Numenor, presumably during the Second Age prior to the Witch-King inhabiting Angmar. So whoever made them had nothing specifically to do with Arnor, but would have been involved in wars against Mordor.

[Nazgûl Princess]

I though the swords were made specifically for the war against the Witch- King of Angmar.

By the way, what was his spirit doing in the Barrow-Downs? Was it trapped there by the Witch-King's sorcery? Or has he become a Barrow-Wight?

The Barrow-Downs was a resting place for the Dunedain, who buried there kings and lords there. When Cardolan was defeated some of the Dunedain went there for refuge. The last prince of Cardolan was supposedly buried there.

After the great plague 1636 most of the surviving Cardolans perished which left the Barrows unattended. That is when the Witch-King sent evil spirits to inhabit the barrows. The spirits were then known as Barrow-Wrights.

[Gordis]

Very interesting, CS and The Gaffer!
Or has he become a Barrow-Wight?

Unlikely. I think there was but one wight in this barrow:

"Get out, you old Wight! Vanish in the sunlight!"

And Merry had his dream AFTER the wight had departed. More likely, there was another unhappy bodiless fëa trapped in the barrow. What kept it from going to Mandos? Maybe sorcery, maybe desire for vengeance.

I think the latter, so, indeed, Merry was chosen as a tool to avenge the Witch-King. And Tom felt something, as he has given the hobbits special blades.

The swords themselves were made in Numenor, presumably during the Second Age prior to the Witch-King inhabiting Angmar. So whoever made them had nothing specifically to do with Arnor, but would have been involved in wars against Mordor.
I think you are wrong here, the following quotes show the blades were Arnor-made:
Then he [Tom] told them that these blades were forged many long years ago by Men of Westernesse: they were foes of the Dark Lord, but they were overcome by the evil king of Carn Dûm in the Land of Angmar.

Men of Westernesse was just another term for the Dunedain.

So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.

Here is is explicit that it was "made in Arnor". ;)
However the technology might indeed have come from the Second age Numenor. :)

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Nice theory CS.

I agree with Gor, apart from the bit about Tom feeling something special about the blades and giving them to the hobbits.
The hobbits chose the blades from the Barrow, just as Tom chose the green brooch for Goldberry, Tom just approved of their choices.

Nazgûl Princess, IIRC they were made for the War against the Witch King, and wrought with spells for the bane of all evil, which is why Ugluk threw away the swords of Merry and Pippin whe they were captured.

[Gordis]

I agree with Gor, apart from the bit about Tom feeling something special about the blades and giving them to the hobbits.
The hobbits chose the blades from the Barrow, just as Tom chose the green brooch for Goldberry, Tom just approved of their choices.
Nope, TD. :) Just fetched the quote for you.
For each of the hobbits he [Tom] chose a dagger, long, leaf-shaped, and keen, of marvellous workmanship, damasked with serpent-forms in red and gold. They gleamed as he drew them from their black sheaths, wrought of some strange metal, light and strong, and set with many fiery stones. Whether by some virtue in these sheaths or because of the spell that lay on the mound, the blades seemed untouched by time, unrusted, sharp, glittering in the sun.
'Old knives are long enough as swords for hobbit-people,' he said. 'Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, or far away into dark and danger.' Then he told them that these blades were forged many long years ago by Men of Westernesse: they were foes of the Dark Lord, but they were overcome by the evil king of Carn Dûm in the Land of Angmar.
'Few now remember them,' Tom murmured, 'yet still some go wandering, sons of forgotten kings walking in loneliness, guarding from evil things folk that are heedless.'
The hobbits did not understand his words, but as he spoke they had a vision as it were of a great expanse of years behind them, like a vast shadowy plain over which there strode shapes of Men, tall and grim with bright swords, and last came one with a star on his brow. Then the vision faded, and they were back in the sunlit world. It was time to start again. They made ready, packing their bags and lading their ponies. Their new weapons they hung on their leather belts under their jackets, feeling them very awkward, and wondering if they would be of any use. Fighting had not before occurred to any of them as one of the adventures in which their flight would land them..

[The Gaffer]

I stand corrected. I had taken "Men of Westernesse" to mean men who lived in Numenor.

Excellent quotes; thanks. (My copies of LOTR are sadly depleted: FOTR falling to bits and ROTK lost).

I don't think we need to have some sort of fea hanging around in the barrow, though. There are visions a-plenty in and around Tom's lands.

I would think of Merry acting as an instrument of their revenge in a metaphorical way, though groovy nonetheless.

[Gordis]

No problem, the Gaffer, no one can remember all the LORT by heart. I had to check the quotes myself, though it is one of my fav. topics. :)

I agree, there were visions aplenty in Tom's realm.
But:
As for me, I feel that there must have been the unquiet spirit of the killed Dunadan there in the Barrows. Merry definitely acted, as if he was possessed for a short time.

Perhaps this man has sworn by Eru to find no peace before he avenged the Witch King for destroying his people, or something... That would account for his spirit not going to Mandos and beyond, but remaining in ME. Much like the Dead men of Dunharrow kept in ME by the unfulfilled oath.

Pure conjecture, of course...

[Anglorfin]

Never thought about it all that much. But I suppose I generally agree with what's being said. My own interpretation is that Merry was the most "worldy" of the four hobbits, and so the one least ruled by superstition. I'm not sure how that connects to the stabbing of the Witch-King, but I always thought of it as Merry being the least convinced of the Witch-King's immortality. Not a very strong argument I know but at least Merry was unconvinced enough to try stabbing him. I don't think any of the other Hobbits would have more readily done that than Merry.

/edit: bah. That came out kinda stupid. What I mean is that Merry felt like he had to try something or anything. It was still a desperation move but the sensible Hobbit in him must have felt that it was better than doing nothing.

[CrazySquirrel]

What I mean is that Merry felt like he had to try something or anything. It was still a desperation move but the sensible Hobbit in him must have felt that it was better than doing nothing.
Can't agree more. :)
I think Merry had no idea what the WK was in truth, mortal or immortal, he just tried to save Eowyn. The same way as Sam had no idea of Shelob's nature when he attacked her, he only wanted to save Frodo. I don't think Merry ever hoped to kill the WK, he only did what he could.

But what do you think, Merry heaving the dream in the Barrow Downs and Merry killing the WK, was it a coincidence or not?

[Anglorfin]

But what do you think, Merry heaving the dream in the Barrow Downs and Merry killing the WK, was it a coincidence or not?

It's easy to believe that Tolkien intended it to be some type of foreshadowing although the vision and Merry stabbing the WK seem to not be too directly linked. However some correlation is obviously there, otherwise nobody would have noticed it. Though it seems a little too subtle for Tolkien. So yes I think it was coincidence but one that worked. I'm certain there were others in a world of such size as Middle Earth. Tolkien has admitted as much himself I believe.

[Jon S.]

Merry is far less naive than the rest of the hobbits at the start of the tale, and perhaps knows more about the outside world even than Frodo. You'll recall it is he who leads them into the Old Forest.

Again, there's the bit (and what a tremendous bit it is) after Merry sticks it to the Witch-King about how he who made the blade would be happy to know its fate, as if the revenge of the Dunedain he had slain reached across the centuries to strike the Witch-King down.

Given that, it's probably no coincidence that Merry was given these lines.

"Hobbits are an unobtrusive but very ancient people, more numerous formerly than they are today; for they love peace and quiet and good tilled earth: a well-ordered and well-farmed countryside was their favourite haunt. /…/ And laugh they did, and eat, and drink, often and heartily, being fond of simple jests at all times, and of six meals a day (when they could get them). They were hospitable and delighted in parties, and in presents, which they gave away freely and eagerly accepted. /…/ At no time had Hobbits of any kind been warlike, and they had never fought among themselves. In olden days they had, of course, been often obliged to fight to maintain themselves in a hard world; but in Bilbo's time that was very ancient history. /…/ Nonetheless, ease and peace had left this people still curiously tough. They were, if it came to it, difficult to daunt or to kill; and they were, perhaps, so unwearyingly fond of good things not least because they could, when put to it, do without them, and could survive rough handling by grief, foe, or weather in a way that astonished those who did not know them well and looked no further than their bellies and their well-fed faces. Though slow to quarrel, and for sport killing nothing that lived, they were doughty at bay, and at need could still handle arms. (LotR: Prologue)