What are the powers of the ring?

[The Wizard from Milan]

So the ring has the power to control other rings, but does it have any other power for which Sauron would want it?

The ring has other powers too (it make men-elves-dwarfs-hobbits invisible; can corrput people), but none of this would be relevant to Sauron.

So my question is, what is the fuss all about?

[durinsbane2244]

er, he put the most part of his soul into it, so, he's like, to quote rowling, "the meanest of spirits" and such things without it...just a minor point there :D

[The Wizard from Milan]

I understand that. But what about powers? Isn't Sauron referred to as sorcerer in several places? I think there is at least a reference of two to Morgul-spells, but nowhere it says what spells they are.

We know Gandalf can make fire spells, but what about Sauron? and his ring?

[King of The Istari]

it is mentioned many times in LOTR that the ring would give an enemy of souron the power to beat him and that armies would flock to the wearer maybe this is relevent to souron

I would suppose that wearing the ring he is unbeatable he was only defeated because Isildur happened to cut the ring off his finger, and as for armies flocking to the wearer this would be very relivent to souron for he would want as many things as possible to join his dark army

the ring probably has other powers as well but I can't think of any examples as yet

[brownjenkins]

I would suppose that wearing the ring he is unbeatable he was only defeated because Isildur happened to cut the ring off his finger

during the war of the last alliance, sauron was killed first, and then the ring was removed

i don't think the ring had any specific "great powers"... sauron was quite powerful in and of himself, and i don't think the ring increased his personal power... his reason for creating the ring was to control the leaders of middle earth as he did with the men and dwarves... he had hoped to do the same with the elves, but they just stopped using them 'till sauron was defeated the first time

that said, as far as the big picture goes, he may have been better off having not made the ring at all... in the end, it's ability to be used against him lead to his permanent destruction... if he had not made the ring he might still have been defeated by the last alliance, but he may also have eventually succeeded as time went by and more elves left for the west... by creating the ring, he made himself "mortal"

[CrazySquirrel]

during the war of the last alliance, sauron was killed first, and then the ring was removed"

I think Sauron was not "killed" first, otherwise his body would have disappeared-like Saruman's or the Witch-King's in LOTR. Sauron's spirit would have fled carrying the Ring, as it carried the Ring from the drowning Numenor. I believe Sauron was wounded, literally "brought down", when Isildur rushed to him and cut the finger of the still physical present, breathing body.

i don't think the ring had any specific "great powers"... sauron was quite powerful in and of himself, and i don't think the ring increased his personal power... his reason for creating the ring was to control the leaders of middle earth as he did with the men and dwarves... he had hoped to do the same with the elves, but they just stopped using them 'till sauron was defeated the first time
I agree it had no extra power: it only received the portion of the power Sauron already possessed. But using the Ring, Sau could draw on the power of the 3, 7 and 9, which contained elvish powers, provided that these rings were wielded by someone. So in the Second age he had his power (part of it contained in the One) + the power of the 9 and the 7. Also, having the One, he prevented the Elves from using the Three. So, In general his power has increased with making the One.

that said, as far as the big picture goes, he may have been better off having not made the ring at all... in the end, it's ability to be used against him lead to his permanent destruction... if he had not made the ring he might still have been defeated by the last alliance, but he may also have eventually succeeded as time went by and more elves left for the west... by creating the ring, he made himself "mortal"
If he had not made the One, the Elves would have used their Three, Seven and Nine all through the Second Age. They would have made several "timeless realmes" and prospered, not faded. No emigration to Valinor. No counter-balance. All the ME would be ruled by Elves! BRR... :(
And Sauron would have been defeated but would not be able to reform his body. He would have become a mere powerless spirit without the One, anchoring him to the ME.

[brownjenkins]

I think Sauron was not "killed" first, otherwise his body would have disappeared-like Saruman's or the Witch-King's in LOTR. Sauron's spirit would have fled carrying the Ring, as it carried the Ring from the drowning Numenor. I believe Sauron was wounded, literally "brought down", when Isildur rushed to him and cut the finger of the still physical present, breathing body.

sauron was an ainu, they cannot die (the witchking was not, and saruman once was, but he was changed like the other wizards that were sent to middle-earth to be more human... and even then, we can not be sure that his spirit did not continue on)

but the idea that removing the ring "killed" him for a time is a possible intepretation

If he had not made the One, the Elves would have used their Three, Seven and Nine all through the Second Age. They would have made several "timeless realmes" and prospered, not faded. No emigration to Valinor. No counter-balance. All the ME would be ruled by Elves! BRR... :(

i don't know if i agree with that, the call of the west and the exodus of the elves was always occuring... their rings were meant to slow the exodus, but even when sauron was vanquised for a long time (forever, as far as the elves knew) many left

And Sauron would have been defeated but would not be able to reform his body. He would have become a mere powerless spirit without the One, anchoring him to the ME.

if he had kept all his power to himself and not given a lot to the ring, which could be destroyed, there is no reason to believe that he could not "rebuild" himself... he did it rather quickly after numenor... and, eventhough the second time took longer, he did that one without the ring in his possession... if he had never given so much of his power to the ring he would have remained basically immortal like all the other ainu

[Jon S.]

http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm

[durinsbane2244]

i think you completely missed part of my point, not only would he be reduced to the ring, but he put MOST OF HIS POWERS INTO IT! thus, were he a sorceror, most of his sorcery, and so on and so forth.

[The Wizard from Milan]

i think you completely missed part of my point, not only would he be reduced to the ring, but he put MOST OF HIS POWERS INTO IT! thus, were he a sorceror, most of his sorcery, and so on and so forth.
I got you now.
It would have been nice to have an actual description of what spells you can perfom with the ring, but I think that JRRT's omission was very likely intentional. oh, well

[Gordis]

It would have been nice to have an actual description of what spells you can perfom with the ring, but I think that JRRT's omission was very likely intentional. oh, well
I think the whole point is that the Ring gives its wielder power according to his own stature.

`I would ask one thing before we go,' said Frodo, `a thing which I often meant to ask Gandalf in Rivendell. I am permitted to wear the One Ring: why cannot I see all the others and know the thoughts of those that wear them? '
`You have not tried,' she said. `Only thrice have you set the Ring upon your finger since you knew what you possessed. Do not try! It would destroy you. Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others.

To Gollum and Bilbo the Ring gives mostly invisibility and long life - both may be just side-effects.

But Sméagol returned alone; and he found that none of his family could see him, when he was wearing the ring. He was very pleased with his discovery and he concealed it; and he used it to find out secrets, and he put his knowledge to crooked and malicious uses. He became sharp-eyed and keen-eared for all that was hurtful. The ring had given him power according to his stature.

For Gandalf, or Galadriel, the Ring provides a world of possibilities, all their powers increased many times. Galadriel could make all the ME look like Lorien, and win the War over Sauron. and become the new Dark Lady...

It is all there, in the book.

[MangoPi]

I always thought (and could be wrong about this) that the ring although made by Sauron and thus a part of him, also took elements out side of itself (in it's creation) and thus would augment his powers, but would be mostly useless on it's own (aside from the whole invisibility thing) which the nice little link that John S. posted seems to suggest.

It could also be like a Horcrux? In that he would have been destroyed by the armies of Isildur but for the fact that the ring had been removed, not destroyed and then lost?

[durinsbane2244]

indeed. i am ashamed of isildur, if indeed the scene from the movie did happen.

[The Wizard from Milan]

indeed. i am ashamed of isildur, if indeed the scene from the movie did happen.
Why? Frodo did exactly the same, both in the movie and in the book!

[durinsbane2244]

because man has free will...i am also dissapointed with frodo...

[Jon S.]

because man has free will...i am also dissapointed with frodo...

I disagree. Here's why: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/110643

[Farimir Captain of Gondor]

GREAT article Jon! thanx for the link. i believe that no one could have destroyed the ring under their own will and everyone knew it, even frodo.

[arvedui_last_king]

Sauron was immortal. Even after the ring was destroyed he still existed. And even if Sauron regained the ring he could have been defeated, but not by any power that was in Middle-earth at the end of the Third Age. The ring did not allow him to do magic "spells", as Gandalf did with fire, it would greatly increase the power he had over his subjects, and it would allow him to control all ring bearers. The power of the Nazgul would also be greatly increased.

[MangoPi]

I have to disagree. From a simple ideological point of view; I don't like determinism as justification, just as much as I dislike dues ex mechina.

In the end, Frodo chose to bear the Ring from Rivendale, and then chose the keep it at Mt. Doom. Whether or not any other out could even exist, that is what happened. Frodo kept it.

I think that the ultimate message of that passage reads: the Ring was so evil that it destroyed itself. Frodo and Sméagol, under the influence of the Ring, fight for possession of it and because of this fight the ring falls into the fires of Mt. Doom.

So maybe I'll end up disagreeing with the author himself on this point, but eh, I can live with that.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Frodo and Sam do not fight for it, it is only in the film that Frodo fights for it. In the book Smeagol hits Sam on the head with a rock, and jumps on the invisible Frodo before biting his finger off. Then Frodo just givesup while Gollum falls in to the fire.

[Jon S.]

I have to disagree. From a simple ideological point of view; I don't like determinism as justification, just as much as I dislike dues ex mechina.

In the end, Frodo chose to bear the Ring from Rivendale, and then chose the keep it at Mt. Doom. Whether or not any other out could even exist, that is what happened. Frodo kept it.

From a *simple* ideological point of view, I would also have to agree. I've been thinking it over, though, and perhaps where our main disagreement lies is actually as to what is "determinism."

While itself imperfect, consider the Wikipedia definition:

"Determinism is the philosophical proposition that every event, including human cognition and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences."

I don't think this is what most of us are referring to in connection with severe addiction or compulsion. But even if it were, I'd argue that it would not negate the concept or possibility of free will.

[Serenoli]

Frodo and Sam do not fight for it, it is only in the film that Frodo fights for it. In the book Smeagol hits Sam on the head with a rock, and jumps on the invisible Frodo before biting his finger off. Then Frodo just givesup while Gollum falls in to the fire.

But they do fight. After being knocked down, Sam gets up, to find Smeagol 'fighting like a mad thing with an unseen foe'. And finally, Gollum bites off Frodo's finger as the only way to wrest the ring off him... thats when Frodo gives up, and Gollum, in his victory dance, falls off.

BTW, that article that Jon S. gave was quite interesting, and I've myself never been disappointed in Frodo. In fact, seeing him succumb at last made me feel sorry for him, and admiration that he held out for so long...