Discussion Thread Number 3 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Gordis]

What a wonderful nazgul fight Udu and CS!

So is Udu now stunned?

[Udukhaturz]

Udu, I have got a PM from TD, asking us to post for Khamul. I believe you and CS have got the same. Please, post more including TD-Khamul's actions. I have already made 2 big posts today, so I am afraid to cause Lotesse's displeasure.

Gordis, yes, I received a PM from TD. I posted twice yesterday and I was hesitant to post again today. I am even more hesitant to write for CS and TD. I will amend any post that does not agree with others' plans.

LSP - I am sorry to hear about your injury. That is really rough luck.

Gordis, by the time Aiwendis and the Chancellor arrive, all of Orrodel might be in flames. :) That was a very good set of two posts that you made!

CS - I enjoyed your post. Lilly is quite lively. :)

Serenoli - Glad to have you with us.

Lotesse - Hope you are in a situation to have your own computer again soon.

[Gordis]

Gordis, by the time Aiwendis and the Chancellor arrive, all of Orrodel might be in flames. :) That was a very good set of two posts that you made!

Thank you. I figured out that the nazgul walking in the Spirit world had to be able to see much more than mere mortals. So I added the ghosts and fairies. I even plan to include Old headless Akoradur the Ghost into the INFO thread as a public character. I would be happy if someone includes him in his post!
:)

[Udukhaturz]

Thank you. I figured out that the nazgul walking in the Spirit world had to be able to see much more than mere mortals. So I added the ghosts and fairies. I even plan to include Old headless Akoradur the Ghost into the INFO thread as a public character. I would be happy if someone includes him in his post!
:)

Gordis, the scene with the fairies and old headless Akoradur was hauntingly lovely. Akoradur is the fine, worthy, vengeful type of spirit that I admire. I hope he will be a frequent visitor. Udu might talk to him occasionally. :)

[The last sane person]

I wonder, I dont think a Nazgul can give other Nazgul black breath...I keep thinking that they are like snakes though, because most species of snakes are weak to their own venom....Interesting little note.

Hurry up and be tommorow already!

[Gordis]

I wonder, I dont think a Nazgul can give other Nazgul black breath...I keep thinking that they are like snakes though, because most species of snakes are weak to their own venom....Interesting little note.

No, I think not. But nobody was trying to use the Black Breath spell...They fought with spells like the Witch-King used when breaking Frodo's sword at the Ford.

[Valandil]

OK - Third Installment of our Discussion Thread.

It'll be a shame when we have to split our Game Thread.

[Rían]

Oooh, lots of fun posts!!

Val - I just love your idea of the men of Numenor going thru an "elf phase"! ;) Funny! Very nice posts :)

Gordis - really lovely imagining of the "invisible life" in the garden - loved it! Continued nice character of the Chancellor - very much in control and knowing what he wants - reminds me of some of those Nazis ...

Ser - Good developing of the new nazgul, and I like how you tied nicely into the "invisible life" idea :)

CS - "overweight troll" - LOL!! :D

Udu - Whew! Those guys need some anger management classes! Good vigorous writing!

[Rían]

TO all who need to know - rpg-Rian will not be back at Orrodel until dawn ... :eek:

Gor - it's not a matter of Rian's brother allowing her to stay as a hired servant or not - Rian does these types of things because she wants to be around humans, but yet not too close. She'll make up her own mind about if she wants to stay or not - it's not her brother's choice, altho he might get mad at her. The "courting" tradition is another thing altogether - she feels bound by an ancient tradition, and by her beloved father's known wishes, so she's going along (reluctantly) with her brother's decision - she'll at least give it somewhat of a try with Tyaron.

I was going to possibly have the elf boys work in the stable (I was going to have Arastud's younger brother have to go home sick, and they would fill in just to keep an eye on Rian if she chose to stay), but maybe it's time that she leave Orrodel, since she's going to want to take those 2 classes at the university, anyway. So I think I'll go with that, unless anyone objects (I know Lotesse wanted Rian at Orrodel at one point, so I was trying to come up with ways to keep her there.) Comments?

OTOH, it might be pretty funny to have 3 elves at Orrodel ... I don't know ... the Naz crew would certainly have to restrain themselves, tho, which might be funny...

[Udukhaturz]

Udu - Whew! Those guys need some anger management classes! Good vigorous writing!

Thanks, Rian!

It has passed the point of anger management. Udu was trying to murder Khamûl. Apparently, he was not successful. :)


"What a wonderful nazgul fight Udu and CS! So is Udu now stunned?" - Gordis

Yes, Udu is stunned with the force of the blast of magic that Khamul hurled at him.

[Lotesse]

Everybody keeps saying to me "oh, I hope you can be at your own computer soon," and believe me, so do I, but do I not come here and post & read every single day? Is the reason why no one wishes to interact with Viv except Shah because I do not have my own computer?? Not having my own computer is neither here nor there, you guys. I come here every day, and every day not one Nazgul ever even mentions the existence of Viv. It sucks. :(

Gordis - excellent post! So evocative, so ethereal...I really loved the fairies and ghost.

CS, Udu, Serenoli, Rian, Valandil - Great stuff, love it all. :) Rian, I wanted to ask you - where, geographically are Tyaron & Rian right now; are they perhaps in the park, or - where are they? I know you must have it in one of your posts, but I thought I'd ask first... :)

[Rían]

They're in the park, which I understand is quite large and of course, has lots of trees! *crosses her fingers and hopes she didn't mess up with the map*

I think the reason why people aren't interacting with Viv is that you said she wasn't going to Orrodel :confused: . At least that's what I thought. I've been waiting for you to post a nice scene with Viv and Ray. I think you'll have to do it, because Shah has stitches on her finger and can't type too well! *gives bandaids and soothing tea to Shah*

[Lotesse]

She's not going to Orrodel because she's going to get herself killed or maimed by Khamul if she walks in on him whipping Lilly, because it's past the point of terrified laughter now and entered unbridled rage potential. Viv cannot abide seeing those she loves hurt. She will lose it. I already tried taking Viv to Orrodel and what I posted for her was booed down. This is why every SINGLE DAY I wait for the fight to wrap up, so that she can get back home and visit with her family and have her bath or whatever she fels like, without having to be in a position to kill or be killed by the others. I have a feling that NOBODY seems to get this. No, I KNOW nobody gets it. That's why she laughed in the first friggin' place, because if she hadn't laughed, she'd have f-ed with Khamul and he'd have possibly killed her in return. :(

Ray is asleep at his own home.

Viv is lying in the grass - at the park. :)

[Valandil]

Val - I just love your idea of the men of Numenor going thru an "elf phase"! ;) Funny!

Yes - I even have this little 'joke' I'm tempted to work into my Northern Dunedain fanfic... but it would probably just get too silly... that every male heir from a few generations after Valandil (as soon as the young lady is nearly enough 'of age') - all the way through Aragorn's father Arathorn - all have a *crush* on Arwen. :D (I hint at that in the 'Forsaken Inn' RPG)

Lotesse - yes, you see that the other Nazgul do not appreciate you. Maybe YOU should be the Nazgul who tries to 'go straight':

[darth vader voice]"haawww-huuuu-haaaawww-huuuuu - Come over to the light side!"[/darth vader voice] :p ;)

[Lotesse]

Nazgul can't go straight - can they? This is actually a question I've long wondered about. Not that Viv'll want to "go straight," or anything, but I DO wonder how that works...

[Rían]

... that every male heir from a few generations after Valandil (as soon as the young lady is nearly enough 'of age') - all the way through Aragorn's father Arathorn - all have a *crush* on Arwen. :D
:D :D

[Lotesse]

I like that, Willow/Maggie - may I call you Maggie? Or Lady Marion? What would you prefer? Typing out your entire Moot-name is kind of long, which is why I ask. Anyway - I like that Elvish eyes are spying on Orrodel - it heightens the scenario. What could Mahtaliel actually see from that far away? Can she hear anything, too? Can she see Rian and the wolves & Viv, and Aiwendis and the Chancellor walking to Orrodel?

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Maggie is perfect, seeing as that's what everybody calls me.

I think she'll definitely see Viv heading home, and Rian and co. Aiwendis and Chancellor are currently invisible, so she won't see them.

She's only just across the street and she's got pretty sharp eyesight, plus the inside of the mansion is lighted which means that someone looking in from the dark would see the inside very well. So be careful which windows you have the action taking place by. ;)

She probably can't hear much though, not unless you all start really screaming at eachother, which is actually seeming quite possible at the moment...

She'll be sure to see at least one suspicious thing, however minor. :D

[Rían]

I like your character, Maggie - I wonder what she and Rian will talk about? Let me know any ideas you have :)

I have one more LONG post (the poetry fight!) and then Rian and co. will leave the park at dawn and can start interacting with other characters.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

I have no clue what they could talk about, but a conversation for them to avoid would be one involving any memories of Sirion... unless of course we want to put them through a conversation with that level of awkwardness. :eek:

I just added a better drawing of Mahtaliel to the picture link, go see it, it's in color, and shiny.

[The last sane person]

Gah! Cant type fast anymore! NOOO! Okay, will resort to typing it in word then pasting it here.

[Rían]

I have no clue what they could talk about, but a conversation for them to avoid would be one involving any memories of Sirion... No kidding!! :eek:


Edit - just saw your new pic - I really like those colors - very interesting, warm, earthy tones. I like the blouse esp. :)

[Udukhaturz]

She's only just across the street and she's got pretty sharp eyesight, plus the inside of the mansion is lighted which means that someone looking in from the dark would see the inside very well. So be careful which windows you have the action taking place by. ;)

Maggie, don't forget, it is a very foggy night. How good are Elvish eyes in heavy, deep fog?

There should be heavy, dark, black draperies over every last window, and shutters when appropriate. Have to keep out those prying eyes someway. Who knows what dark deeds go on in the Orrodel Mansion? :evil:

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Since when was heavy fog specified? :confused: Ah well, she'll still see foggy outlines of anyone moving around down below, and her hearing is excellent. I'm certainly not aiming to have her witness anything that'd be a dead giveaway. Bit early for that. :p

Edit: Found the reference to fog, still, doesn't sound like it's heavy enough to prevent an elf seeing across a street.

Seeing through curtains is unfortunately not one of her abilities though... Unless said curtains get ripped down in the fight. :rolleyes: :p

[Udukhaturz]

Since when was heavy fog specified? :confused: Ah well, she'll still see foggy outlines of anyone moving around down below, and her hearing is excellent. I'm certainly not aiming to have her witness anything that'd be a dead giveaway. Bit early for that. :p
Edit: Found the reference to fog, still, doesn't sound like it's heavy enough to prevent an elf seeing across a street.

Maggie, the fog was thick. See below:

Butterbeer’s Post #323 - “As the bell tower tolled eerily and dully in the thick grey swirling fog entombing the City as the last dull echoes of the tenth peal ended the City Crier called out ‘All's Well!’�

Udukhaturz’ Post #328 - “Outside, Udu found that the fog from the river was swirling low about the city, damp and thick. He enjoyed nights like this and felt a kinship for the darkness and the mists.�

Seeing through curtains is unfortunately not one of her abilities though... Unless said curtains get ripped down in the fight. :rolleyes: :p

It hasn't come to that yet. It might. :)

[CrazySquirrel]

All I have posted about Khamul and Melwen. I am afraid I may have gone too far in developing Khamul's character, so TD! , I am ready to edit the post if you ask.
However, I wanted to use my very own Melwen myself, before the Chancellor comes and does her in.

Rian, I beg you, post about Arastud's reaction! He is your own guy, after all! What he does is entirely up to you!

[Valandil]

Since when was heavy fog specified? :confused: Ah well, she'll still see foggy outlines of anyone moving around down below, and her hearing is excellent. I'm certainly not aiming to have her witness anything that'd be a dead giveaway. Bit early for that. :p

Edit: Found the reference to fog, still, doesn't sound like it's heavy enough to prevent an elf seeing across a street.

Seeing through curtains is unfortunately not one of her abilities though... Unless said curtains get ripped down in the fight. :rolleyes: :p

I think that perhaps Mahtaliel should see Khamul lead Melwen outside to where the stable boys sleep - THAT would surely raise her level of suspicion, especially once he returned again almost immediately, seeming quite pleased with himself. Once there - she might hear all kinds of things, if she sticks around - and if all the ringwork DOES set off a fire in the house, that's going to rouse the whole city! :eek:

Lotesse (other Nazgul, please note) - OK, the Nazgul being able to not alarm horses in general about themselves is one thing, but NO WAY would they be able to go near one of the Mearas without causing GREAT unrest - and I think NEVER would a Meara let a Nazgul ride them. Do the rest of you agree?

You Nazgul are definitely getting sloppy... you won't remain secret for long... not long at all! :evil:

[Valandil]

Rian - it was also interesting to learn that Tyaron is known as a 'swordsman'! What can you tell us about that? :)

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Udu, I edited my post, the fog has been dealt with.

[Gordis]

Udu, I edited my post, the fog has been dealt with.
Yes, I see, you made the fog dissipate:
"A breeze had sprung up and the previously heavy fog had dissapated to become a fine, refreshing mist."

But you speak of the time around 1AM:
"At least an hour had passed since she had left the reception and it had been midnight then."

But here is the quote from my post #397 "Quietly they slipped into the garden. In the Shadow World, the fog was moving in white waves made radiant by moonlight."

You argued yourself, that the Morgul Lord and Aiwendis could not set off to Orrodel BEFORE 1AM.

So, as my post #397 precedes yours #404, the fog at 1AM still existed.
But, of course, you may make it thinner or more likely there was thick fog near the ground and only mist at the top of the wall.

Actually I liked your post, LMM, but don't hope to see too much.
:p

[Gordis]

CS,, I liked the way you disposed of the maid. I sort of hoped for more bloodshed, but it can always come later...:)
I think that perhaps Mahtaliel should see Khamul lead Melwen outside to where the stable boys sleep - THAT would surely raise her level of suspicion, especially once he returned again almost immediately, seeming quite pleased with himself. Once there - she might hear all kinds of things, if she sticks around - and if all the ringwork DOES set off a fire in the house, that's going to rouse the whole city! :eek:
No way, Valandil. Re-read CS's post more attentively, please. Khamul turned himself invisible before leading Melwen to the stables and returned invisible back. So, IF Mahtaliel could see some of Orrodel inner court (with trees in it) at all, all she would be able to see would be a maid staggering unsteadily ALONE across the courtyard towards the stables. One needed to be a Calaquendi elf, or to wear a ring on his finger, to see Khamul at all, much less, whether he was pleased with himself, or not. :p

Lotesse (other Nazgul, please note) - OK, the Nazgul being able to not alarm horses in general about themselves is one thing, but NO WAY would they be able to go near one of the Mearas without causing GREAT unrest - and I think NEVER would a Meara let a Nazgul ride them. Do the rest of you agree?

NO! I most definitely don't agree!
I have spent ages arguing with one Forkbeard in this thread here: Nazgul horses (http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=12200), that ALL THE NAZGUL HORSES WERE MEARAS.
There is plenty of evidence for that. I will not repeat it again here, as I admit since that argument, this question makes me unnecessary edgy.:(

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Just because the fog is still thick in the garden doesn't mean that it can't have thinned out on the street. Fog is weird like that; at home in Seattle we'll get foggy days where the density of the fog changes from being so thick you can't see more than a yard or two in front to being almost nonexistent in the space of a city block.

And no, I wasn't planning to have her see too much, you're right that she couldn't have seen the stables from where she is. The main door on the other hand... ;)

As for the horses... it is odd that a Meara who hasn't been specifically conditioned to accept a nazgul rider would be that calm around one.

[Gordis]

Just because the fog is still thick in the garden doesn't mean that it can't have thinned out on the street. Fog is weird like that; at home in Seattle we'll get foggy days where the density of the fog changes from being so thick you can't see more than a yard or two in front to being almost nonexistent in the space of a city block.
Yes, certainly. But normally the fog is denser on the ground. The University is on the hill. Atop the wall, there is likely to be no fog, down in the garden and at a lower level, in the street, the fog should be denser. But anyway, what is there to see in the fog? - the 3 Nazgul are invisible.

And no, I wasn't planning to have her see too much, you're right that she couldn't have seen the stables from where she is. The main door on the other hand... ;)

The opening and closing of the main door is all yours. :) I thought to make the Morgul Lord and K go around the house, but I decided they had no way to know you were watching.

And, considering that the University is on the hill + the height of the walls, I believe it was POSSIBLE for Mahtaliel to see the far end of the court and the stables. (And to spot Melwen walking alone and drunk to the stableboys's room). The main bedroom must face the street, as Khamul saw the light there when approaching the house. But the curtains are drawn, I believe.

As for the horses... it is odd that a Meara who hasn't been specifically conditioned to accept a nazgul rider would be that calm around one.
At the time of LOTR the nazgul had no rings, so they certainly couldn't become visible or totally invisible (clothes and all). I believe that in their weakened ringless state they couldn't counter the fear in animals and humans effectively, even it they wanted to. Mearas, by the way, were less affected by nazgul presence than other horses. (Shadowfax at the Gate of M.Tirith)

In this RPG the nazgul have their rings, can turn visible, and are able to appear normal to EVERYONE, including elves and animals, but excluding maiar, Calaquendi elves and Ring-wielders.

Rian, Will you, please, continue Arastud's story?

Serenoli, I am not at all sure that I understood Tolvadok right. I am eager to change my post and make Aiwendis like him :) , if I was wrong about him.

[Lotesse]

When I put Viv in the park, staring at the clear, star-filled night sky, I had no idea there was supposaed to be fog. I guess it's been SO LONG since the evening began, that I plumb forgot about the fog that Butterbeer and everyone made. (watch out, here comes Eeyore!) NOT that anyone cares... :rolleyes: :D

Udu - there weren't any drapes pulled either in the boudoir or in Viv's room. The windows were open, no?

[CrazySquirrel]

The park is on the high hill, near the Art Museum. So there might have been NO FOG!

[Lotesse]

Lotesse (other Nazgul, please note) - OK, the Nazgul being able to not alarm horses in general about themselves is one thing, but NO WAY would they be able to go near one of the Mearas without causing GREAT unrest - and I think NEVER would a Meara let a Nazgul ride them. Do the rest of you agree?

You Nazgul are definitely getting sloppy... you won't remain secret for long... not long at all! :evil:

WRONG!!!! I am of the opinion that some of the actual Nazgul horses may have been - or WERE - mearas, black Mearas bred by Sauron to endure Nazgul. Don't agree with me, I could care less. Laslech is a Mearas, and she likes Viniglaen, whether or not Viv is evil. :p So there.

[CrazySquirrel]

Udu - there weren't any drapes pulled either in the boudoir or in Viv's room. The windows were open, no?
You mean Lilly's room? The master bedroom?

Why would the window be OPEN?

Look, Lilly may be a fool, but she sure as hell will pull the drapes before making sorcery and before making love with a guy known by everyone in Tharbad as her own brother!

[Lotesse]

Because the boudoir is like 3 stories up, and outside the yard is full of cedar trees - and I guess I was just remembering how I had Lomi fly in the open window when Viv came by before - so, never mind. My bad. BTW Crazy Squirrel - I loved your post today!! I like how Khamul puts lust into her head, that was a nice touch. :)

Gordis, Loved yours, too! Who am I forgetting... anyway, good stuff efveryone! Rian, you DO know yopu can see Viv walking her horse through the park on her way home. So can Aiwendis, Ilmenzor, Tolvadek, Mahtaliel - Viv is clearly visible, and right in the park on her way home. Just so everyone is aware.

[Udukhaturz]

"Udu - there weren't any drapes pulled either in the boudoir or in Viv's room. The windows were open, no?" - Lotesse

Lotesse, the Nazgul have enough problems without creating a scandal that might rival that of Turin and Nienor. :D

You mean Lilly's room? The master bedroom?

Why would the window be OPEN?

Look, Lilly may be a fool, but she sure as hell will pull the drapes before making sorcery and before making love with a guy known by everyone in Tharbad as her own brother!

That seems logical... one should always be discreet, especially when making love. :) :D Of course, those ladies teas to which Aiwendis is always being invited might enjoy some juicy gossip. :)

[CrazySquirrel]

I was going to possibly have the elf boys work in the stable (I was going to have Arastud's younger brother have to go home sick, and they would fill in just to keep an eye on Rian if she chose to stay), but maybe it's time that she leave Orrodel, since she's going to want to take those 2 classes at the university, anyway. So I think I'll go with that, unless anyone objects (I know Lotesse wanted Rian at Orrodel at one point, so I was trying to come up with ways to keep her there.) Comments?

OTOH, it might be pretty funny to have 3 elves at Orrodel ... I don't know ... the Naz crew would certainly have to restrain themselves, tho, which might be funny...
Rian, Lilly took an elf as a housekeeper just because Khamul ordered her to hire all the servants immediately. Now the household is in order, Lilly will NEVER hire any more elves. She HATES them and they ARE dangerous. Khamul and others understand it as well and feel much the same. She will find many humans eager to work for her given the outrageously good salary she offers.
And if many elves start to visit Rian, I am afraid she will be fired.

As CS I will love to have you in Orrodel, but as Lilly, I am afraid it becomes too risky. Your decision is up to you.

:)

[Lotesse]

"Udu - there weren't any drapes pulled either in the boudoir or in Viv's room. The windows were open, no?" - Lotesse

Lotesse, the Nazgul have enough problems without creating a scandal that might rival that of Turin and Nienor. :D



That seems logical... one should always be discreet, especially when making love. :) :D Of course, those ladies teas to which Aiwendis is always being invited might enjoy some juicy gossip. :)
HELLO!!!!! Did you SEE my last post here? I already said, MY BAD!!! :rolleyes: :mad:

[CrazySquirrel]

Because the boudoir is like 3 stories up, and outside the yard is full of cedar trees - and I guess I was just remembering how I had Lomi fly in the open window when Viv came by before - so, never mind. My bad. BTW Crazy Squirrel - I loved your post today!! I like how Khamul puts lust into her head, that was a nice touch. :)

Thanks, Lotesse, I am still woried if Khamul - TD likes his part in it, or not. About lust, I believe it is a good idea to have witnesses to her behaviour and some reason for it.

It is a pity we don't have a plan of Orrodel. I think there is only first floor, and maybe some storage rooms under the roof. Viv's room, if there are trees below the window, look onto the inner court for sure.
On the first floor there is a corridor and several rooms on both sides. The Master Bedroom is adjacent to Lilly's boudoir. Both must be on the same side of the house. But no one has yet agreed whether the windows of these rooms look onto the inner court or onto the street.
I remember right at the beginning of the RPG, Valandil posted that Lilly and Penny were in the boudoir and Lilly looked out of the window and saw Ray and Marty passing by. That means the windows of Lilly's two rooms look onto the street. Later TD posted that Khamul saw light in Lil's BOUDOIR from the street. Gor posted today that the ML saw light on the first floor.

There is also Rian's room looking onto the inner court, as she saw trees. But is it in the Main house or in the servant's wing, behind the main building? Must be in the latter.
What about THE EVIL CARTOGRAPHER? Could you do the plan of Orrodel, please?

[CrazySquirrel]

HELLO!!!!! Did you SEE my last post here? I already said, MY BAD!!! :rolleyes: :mad:
Lotesse, both Udu's post you are quoting and your "MY bad" post were posted in exactly the SAME minute! You have cross-posted 'tis all!

[Udukhaturz]

It is a pity we don't have a plan of Orrodel. I think there is only first floor, and maybe some storage rooms under the roof. Viv's room, if there are trees below the window, look onto the inner court for sure.
On the first floor there is a corridor and several rooms on both sides. The Master Bedroom is adjacent to Lilly's boudoir. Both must be on the same side of the house. But no one has yet agreed whether the windows of these rooms look onto the inner court or onto the street.

I was under the impression that there were at least two stories and wrote accordingly. If the maid were downstairs on the couch and the Nazgûl on the story above, will this require some changing of posts?

Whatever the layout of the place is fine with me; just so we all know what it is.

[CrazySquirrel]

I was under the impression that there were at least two stories and wrote accordingly. If the maid were downstairs on the couch and the Nazgûl on the story above, will this require some changing of posts?

Whatever the layout of the place is fine with me; just so we all know what it is.
I am afraid I don't remember if anyone mentioned two stories...Did you mention two? I myself had thought there was ground floor anf first floor, but perhaps it was just me... Do you remember Lotesse?
I remember another thing, when Viv went to Khamul's bedroom she only walked along the corridor, not by a stairs. Is that so?

[Valandil]

NO! I most definitely don't agree!
I have spent ages arguing with one Forkbeard in this thread here: Nazgul horses (http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=12200), that ALL THE NAZGUL HORSES WERE MEARAS.
There is plenty of evidence for that. I will not repeat it again here, as I admit since that argument, this question makes me unnecessary edgy.:(

I'll check out the link later, but whatever is in it may not apply for these points:
1. It was Sauron who engineered the whole thing with the black horses for his Nazgul to ride... and this was a new thing, 3000 years after the setting of THIS game - because it's pretty explicit in FOTR that being 'Black Riders' is a new identity for the Nazgul. So I don't think they would have had horses trained for them at this time - and even if Sauron had done so, nearly 50 years later, they'd all be gone now.
2. Those particular horses, even if they WERE Mearas - were painstakingly trained, probably from the earliest parts of their lives, to be OK hanging out with the Mearas. I agree that Shadowfax acted differently around the Nazgul than regular horses would have, and was not intimidated by them, but NO WAY would Shadowfax have allowed a Nazgul to ride him.
3. Any Mearas in Middle Earth were probably in the upper vales of Anduin - there's no way Ray would have had one to give to Viv (we are talking about the horse that Ray gave to Viv, right?).

That's good for starters. I'll gladly think of more if you still object - but you guys can't have EVERYTHING. Nazguls may be powerful creatures, but they come with their own particular disadvantages too. I think they will even have to concentrate on keeping regular animals from having a fit around them... if they get distracted by something else - or even sleep, or try to have some nookie - and there are animals around, the creatures will go NUTS!

It's just time you guys start acknowledging and working within those disadvantages.

[Lotesse]

Didn't mean to snappy-snap at you, Udu - feelin' a mite touchy aujourd'hui, especially since I just wrote a nice response on the other laptop and it CRASHED right before I could punch "send." Yep, one of THOSE friggin' days.

Orrodel House - oh, we are LONG overdue for a floor-plan for Orrodel. I have always wanted to google-up some mansion pics for us to see, and we could choose which one we like best and go with that plus after choosing how it looks, then design our OWN personalised floor-plan to best accomodate our story. From the getty-up, I've always seen Orrodel as having the VAST wine cellar, then first floor, then wide, sweeping stairwell to second floor where the bedrooms and private offices are, then a 3rd floor or an attic - maybe attic is better (we could have bats up there and ghosts and stuff! and old sets of armour, relics & whatever...) And Orrodel is a very LARGE mansion, not medium-sized or small. Huge. With huge yard and stables, and EVERYthing. Maybe even bigger than Val's place, heeheehee...

P.S. - Attention All Nazgul - Let's start PMing one another for a secret united front plan against the icky forces of eLVEN GOODNESS, SHALL WE? wE NEED A (SECRET) PLAN...

[Lotesse]

I am afraid I don't remember if anyone mentioned two stories...Did you mention two? I myself had thought there was ground floor anf first floor, but perhaps it was just me... Do you remember Lotesse?
I remember another thing, when Viv went to Khamul's bedroom she only walked along the corridor, not by a stairs. Is that so?
Yeah, she walked down the corridor from her own boudoir, upon the second floor. I'm surprised I'm the only one who's seen Orrodel House as having floors, plural. It goes to show how badly we need a floor plan for us all to refer to. If only I could design one on the computer, I would. Gordis, help!!

And Valandil - Nope, sorry, I'm not giving way about Laslech. She is a Mearas, a special one at that, and enjoys Viv's company. Viv has not revealed her Nazgullian nature yet to Laslech, and long before she "goes there," she will slowly train and teach Laslech to abide the evil and bear any Nazgul without fear or apprehension. It CAN happen, and with Viv & Laslech, it WILL happen.

[Valandil]

And Valandil - Nope, sorry, I'm not giving way about Laslech. She is a Mearas, a special one at that, and enjoys Viv's company. Viv has not revealed her Nazgullian nature yet to Laslech, and long before she "goes there," she will slowly train and teach Laslech to abide the evil and bear any Nazgul without fear or apprehension. It CAN happen, and with Viv & Laslech, it WILL happen.

Only if King Valandil gets to call up his Troll Army and Pet Balrog! :mad:




:p

[Rían]

Rian, Will you, please, continue Arastud's story? Yes, I will - the only reason I haven't is out of concern for poor Lotesse - I already had to get in 2 posts a day to get my Rian/Tyaron/Alagos story up to speed, and I had a post for Arastud all composed but I felt guilty about posting THREE in one day, unless I could send Lotesse some money for her internet access time! ;) I'll do that one first, then I'll do my song/poetry battle in the park. Sorry, this might turn out to be three posts today, but that's just how it will have to be today.

And I must say I agree with Val - you Nazgul can't remove ALL of your disadvantages :) (or you can if you insist, but then I'll make Rian able to fly and able to shoot flame out of the points of her elven ears! ;) ) The lack of animal disturbance in their presence has bothered me, but I'm barely/maybe willing to grant that one, as long as you guys don't toss ALL of your canon characteristics.

As I said, this is my first rpg, and frankly I'm concerned and worried - what happens in rpg's when the real people involved play characters that are deadly enemies? I mean, I don't see how this could NOT end up with some major fights between the characters eventually. How does this work? :confused:

I like all of you guys too much to not consider this. Nothing in an rpg is worth a lost friendship.


ps - thanks for your guys' input on Rian/Orrodel. She's definitely leaving when she gets back this morning to Orrodel, and I'll write that as soon as I can. The only reason that I ever even considered her staying is that Lotesse had wanted Rian to stay, but it seems like we're all pretty much agreed now that it just won't work anymore.

[Lotesse]

Ciao, Rian! This afternoon I'm at my boyfriend's office, so I can use the computer for a while, so please, by all means, post it all today and I can stay abreast!

As for the Mearas issue, like Gordis was saying, it can be argued that the Nazgul's horses were indeed trained, Sauron-bred Black Mearas - I can't remember off-hand which thread it was, a while back - this spring, I think? But it was argued beautifully, and I adhere to this point of view. And each animal has the right & ability to have a mind of his or her own, no? One horse may have the fortitude & ability, whilst another horse may not.

[Rían]

OK, I'll try to catch all my characters up to the current time *cracks her knuckles, stretches fingers*

I can kind of grant the horse thing, like I said, but how about having animals in general at least shy away from you guys a bit? Maybe they'll be fine if you remember to do some type of spell, but if your defences are down and you forget, the animals start to get edgy? A point for general discussion :)

[Lotesse]

I suppose you have a good point there, Rian. If I'm not careful, Viv'll turn into some kind of Snow White with bluebirds sitting on her shoulders and bunny-rabbits happily hopping alongside her, and stuff. I let too much of my own character get into my Viniglaen character sometimes, what with passionately loving animals and all.

Hey - here's a pic of maybe Orrodel's dining room? I'm trying to research some good Orrodel House pics for us to create mental imagery with...

http://hotelinformation.com/html/england/stratford-ua/ettingtonpark/photo3b.JPG

here's a pic of an estate for sale in England...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1870000/images/_1871591_house300.jpg

[Valandil]

I was thinking more along the lines of 1313 Mockingbird Lane from The Munsters! ;)

[Udukhaturz]

Didn't mean to snappy-snap at you, Udu - feelin' a mite touchy aujourd'hui, especially since I just wrote a nice response on the other laptop and it CRASHED right before I could punch "send." Yep, one of THOSE friggin' days.

I had not noticed before that you had snapped at me, but now that you brought it to my attention..... :)

[Lotesse]

I was thinking more along the lines of 1313 Mockingbird Lane from The Munsters! ;)
The Nazgul are not freaks and weirdos, Val!! You seem to keep wishing out loud that they would be grungy misfits, groveling one-dimensional monsters - sorry 2 disappoint, but Nazgul are, in fact, nothing of the sort. :)

One thread to look at about horses - Nazgul Horses, in the Middle Earth Forum. But that's not the main one I was thinking of; I'll keep tryna find it... Gordis remebers which thread it was! And it was an AWEsome discussion, too, I recall.

[Udukhaturz]

I am afraid I don't remember if anyone mentioned two stories...Did you mention two? I myself had thought there was ground floor anf first floor, but perhaps it was just me... Do you remember Lotesse?
I remember another thing, when Viv went to Khamul's bedroom she only walked along the corridor, not by a stairs. Is that so?

I have gone through a number of quotes and cannot find any specific reference to the number of stories. There are stairs, though, going someplace, but where? :) :evil:

Lotesse’s Post #286 - “She went inside, hung up her riding cloak in the foyer, and immediately headed upstairs to check on Lilly and Five.�
“He bent in low to Lilly, and as they huddled together over their waxen enemy, muttering spells, Viv left them at it, and went downstairs to head for the cellar.�

Crazy Squirrel’s Post #296 - “Zimra blushed furiously, thrust a needle in Penny's sleeve and flew downstairs, indigned.�

Crazy Squirrel’s Post #322 - “Caring as ever, Penny volunteered to go to the kitchen and to bring the supper upstairs.�
“He elegantly draped the right side of the garment over his left shoulder, as if it were a cloak, and started on bare feet down the stairs. The staircase tilted and danced before his eyes.�

Udukhaturz’ Post #339 - “He saw a set of stairs leading to the upper level and began climbing them, holding his dagger in his hand. He found a hall with closed doors and no lights burning.�

[Lotesse]

Well, if people are going upstairs and downstairs, it's safe to assume that there will be at least 2 floors, in addition to the wine cellar basement. No one's had to mention an attic or anything yet, but for all we know Orrodel could have five floors and encompass a five square acre area! We REALLY need a floor plan to work with.

[Lotesse]

Here's another nice pic of what could be Orrodel's main dining area - I like this one much better. The vastness & ornateness of a Gothic-style huge mansion like Orrodel, though, reminds me of how badly the household NEEDS a capable Major Domo. Since Rian won't be able to continue as such, we really need to replace her with an equally as capable Major Domo, not just some dull-minded drudge of a servant kid.

http://studio-glorious.autors-interior.ru/gothic.jpg

[Udukhaturz]

As I said, this is my first rpg, and frankly I'm concerned and worried - what happens in rpg's when the real people involved play characters that are deadly enemies? I mean, I don't see how this could NOT end up with some major fights between the characters eventually. How does this work? :confused:

I like all of you guys too much to not consider this. Nothing in an rpg is worth a lost friendship.

Rian, you have asked some very pertinent questions. To answer your first one from my point of view, and it is mine only. I speak for no one but myself. If my character is at war with another character, my character will retaliate, ie, kill, destroy, maim, etc., to the limits set by the gamemaster. That is why it is always good in games, rpgs, etc, to have beginning rules.

Now to your second point. I know this from experience in many years of RPG and wargaming. People MUST keep their real personalities and their characters SEPARATE. It is never good to base a character directly upon your personality, because you are going to hurt when your character gets hurt.

Many wargamers are about as rough as their RP characters. A lot of them do not care about friendships, unless it is someone on their team and they will stab him just as quickly as the next. The object there, though, is to win and that is it. No one is getting prizes here, however.

As I said before, beginning RULES are always good. That way everyone knows what is allowed and what is not.

[Rían]

I suppose you have a good point there, Rian. If I'm not careful, Viv'll turn into some kind of Snow White with bluebirds sitting on her shoulders and bunny-rabbits happily hopping alongside her, and stuff. LOL!

I let too much of my own character get into my Viniglaen character sometimes, what with passionately loving animals and all. Yes, I'm also finding it hard sometimes to remember what my character would do vs. what I would do. Also, I'm finding it really hard to keep what my character knows vs. what I know separate.


EDIT - OK, Arastud and Annawen and Melwen all brought up-to-date. I always loved the Faramir/Eowyn scene, and had intended for Arastud and Annawen to have a scene like that, so - here it is! :)

[Gordis]

Lotesse, Excellent post.
I'll check out the link later, but whatever is in it may not apply for these points:
1. It was Sauron who engineered the whole thing with the black horses for his Nazgul to ride... and this was a new thing, 3000 years after the setting of THIS game - because it's pretty explicit in FOTR that being 'Black Riders' is a new identity for the Nazgul. So I don't think they would have had horses trained for them at this time - and even if Sauron had done so, nearly 50 years later, they'd all be gone now.
Nay, Val, this was NOT a NEW thing! Pretty explicit?? You are mistaken. The fell Beasts were new thing, not the horses.

Rhadagast says to Gandalf: "The nazgul, all Nine, disguised as Black Riders, as of old " Pray tell me how can one be disguised as a "Rider" without a horse? Are you trying to tell me that the Nazgul had to WALK for 4000 years, before Sauron prepared horses for them? And what did the Witch King ride in the battle of Fornost? Please check that out.

There was no Sauron around to train the horse the Witch-King was riding at Fornost. He did it himself. Sure the nazgul trained their horses themselves, throughout their long lives. Possibly only ones used in the "hunt for the Ring" were Mearas. At least, they have shown practically the same speed as Shadowfax.
For more details, please, read my thread "Nazgul horses".

2. Those particular horses, even if they WERE Mearas - were painstakingly trained, probably from the earliest parts of their lives, to be OK hanging out with the Mearas. I agree that Shadowfax acted differently around the Nazgul than regular horses would have, and was not intimidated by them, but NO WAY would Shadowfax have allowed a Nazgul to ride him. No, Shadowfax wouldn't, but specially trained Mearas would and did.
Shadofax, by the way, was not an ordinary Meara.

3. Any Mearas in Middle Earth were probably in the upper vales of Anduin - there's no way Ray would have had one to give to Viv (we are talking about the horse that Ray gave to Viv, right?).
I think they were more likely in Rhovanion, as the Eoteod moved to the upper Vales of Anduin after the fall of Angmar in 1975. I don't see why some horses couldn't be found in Gondor or Arnor. They should be quite rare and costly, but not impossible.

That's good for starters. I'll gladly think of more if you still object - but you guys can't have EVERYTHING. Nazguls may be powerful creatures, but they come with their own particular disadvantages too. I think they will even have to concentrate on keeping regular animals from having a fit around them... if they get distracted by something else - or even sleep, or try to have some nookie - and there are animals around, the creatures will go NUTS! The disadvantages you are talking about are from the time when the nazgul were deprived of their Rings. We don't know for sure what they were able to do with their rings. We have NO EVIDENCE that they could even turn VISIBLE. We accepted it for the RPG, but it is hardly canon. If the nazgul turn visible and are able to fool even ELVES in broad daylight, why the animals should show more sensitivity?

Yes, you can think of more, Val, and I will be glad to discuss it further :) , but please read the horses thread first. Perhaps it would be better if you continue the thread, as there is a lot of quotes and arguments already. Though I admit, you are the first to say that the nazgul were unable to ride horses before their "daddy" Sauron thought of training some for them...:D

[Lotesse]

Rian - re. Arastud & Annawen - And their names even match! That's good match-making, for real. I like the "conversation with the willow switch" bit, too. :)

[Rían]

Rian, you have asked some very pertinent questions. To answer your first one from my point of view, and it is mine only. I speak for no one but myself. If my character is at war with another character, my character will retaliate, ie, kill, destroy, maim, etc., to the limits set by the gamemaster. Yes, and I think that's right, as long as we don't kill off another person's character without their permission. We can't ask another character to act in a way that they wouldn't, but we can also negotiate before any killing of main characters take place, as I'm sure you'd do.

Now to your second point. I know this from experience in many years of RPG and wargaming. People MUST keep their real personalities and their characters SEPARATE. It is never good to base a character directly upon your personality, because you are going to hurt when your character gets hurt. Excellent point - I was hoping to hear from someone with experience, as I have zilch!!

As I said before, beginning RULES are always good. That way everyone knows what is allowed and what is not.Good idea. Can you think of any we need that aren't here yet?


ps - re the Faramir/Eowyn post with Arastud/Annawen - I mean, how could I pass up a chance to use the word "puissant"? ;) Not that Arastud would probably know what it means, but I used a little suspension of reality there because it was fun.

[Rían]

Pray tell me how can one be disguised as a "Rider" without a horse?
*tries to banish Monty Python and pictures of coconuts from her mind* ;)

thanks, Lotesse - glad you liked it! I think your scent of human lust in the hay thing is still ok, because you weren't specific, but change it if you think it needs it.


* * NOTICE * * - I am now going to do my Elvish poetry/song battle in the park!! For this post (or posts :o ) I am quoting verbatum from a beautiful old song/poem. Rian, Tyaron and Alagos are picking and choosing from different parts to "fight" each other. And I would like to ask you guys, for fun, if anyone recognizes the piece! (WITHOUT googling!) If you know it, please just say that you know it, and don't give the name away yet. I"m just curious to see who would know it. I'll give the name out in 24 hours or so.

[Lotesse]

Here can be the Orrodel House main living room, or at least a part of it...

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/chg/content/images/2003_1944.JPG

Are you guys catching all the pic links I'm putting here today? Any comments or suggestions about my Orrodel ideas?

Rian - re. Song battles - Right On!! :cool: Reminds me of the rap battle scene from 8 Mile, the Eminem movie. :) That's a compliment, BTW in case you didn't know. Big time. :)

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

*tries to banish Monty Python and pictures of coconuts from her mind*

*Starts humming "I am not yet Dead"*

I quite like the idea of Monty Python Nazgul, they could borrow their armor from the Knights of Nee. :D :p

I love the pictures you're finding Lotesse. I'd live in a place like that if I were a Nazgul. :)

[Gordis]

I will try to prepare the Orrodel floorplan (groundfloor, first floor, second floor, attic) Thanks for the directions, CS, Lotesse and especially Udu!
Lotesse, I loved your pictures, one will be dining room, the other living room.
But the estate doesn't fit well, it is a country estate not a city house. It is only my opinion, of course.

And yes, it will be well not to overdo the animal thing. That's why neither the Chancellor, nor Aiwendis have any pets :) . But horses they have for sure, the best ones that could be obtained. ;)

Re: attitude. It is not necessary to become enemies even arguing hotly over a point, unless one becomes personally insulting.

[Lotesse]

Re: attitude. It is not necessary to become enemies even arguing hotly over a point, unless one becomes personally insulting.

Hear, hear!! True that. We're all intelligent, sensitive adults around here; how're we gonna make "enemies" pout of each other just from playing an RPG together? So silly.

I'm glad U like the pics, Gordis! Let me see if I can find a more fitting city-style home 4 U...

O.K. - trying still to find good staircase pix - here's a nice one, and envision the ground floor that the staircase sweeps out, nice & wide, with deep crimson carpeting...


http://www.jack-travel.com/IledeFrance/Pictures/ChantillyChateauStaircase1.jpg

[Gordis]

Great post, Udu. Realistic approach (I mean the splinters ;) ). And I liked that Khamul's lies about Aiwendis had played their part. Interesting new sub-plot.

Lotesse Keep getting more pics. I am half-asleep already, but tomorrow I will have a look.

Rian nice post about A&A, but Melwen was not SIMPLY drunk, she is now firmly in love with Arastud, as Khamul planted it in her mind deeply, so no throwing up will change that. So her question "What am I doing here?" is a bit strange.

As for your poetry post, I have to leave it for tomorrow.

Bye, All!

[Rían]

Gordis - I'll change the post to reflect Khamul's potion more accurately. I think the "what am I doing here" can stay, as she doesn't remember how she got there, but she can go to "but now that I'm here .... ;) "


GUYS - if you know what the poem is, please do NOT post the name! I'd like to see who knows it :) Just say if you know it or not, please :)

[Rían]

(thanks, Lotesse, for taking out the poem name :) )

Lotesse knew the poem, but she edited it out for me.

You were spot on, Lotesse - how long did it take you to figure it out?

Whew, 3 long posts - I'm done posting now, I'll take a tour through the Orrodel piccy links :)

[Rían]

Rian - re. Song battles - Right On!! :cool: Reminds me of the rap battle scene from 8 Mile, the Eminem movie. :) That's a compliment, BTW in case you didn't know. Big time. :)thanks - it was sure fun picking out the different parts for them to "battle" with! It's SUCH an elvish thing to do, too, don't you think?

[Rían]

*drools over gorgeous pictures*

Whew! I wants it!! I wants it, preciousss!

*comes back to reality*

Well, I must say, you're gonna need some good staff for all that dusting! Hopefully Zimra (sp?) has lots of cousins ...

My next post will be Rian returning to Orrodel and taking her leave - who should she talk to? Who wants to do this with her?

[Udukhaturz]

Yes, and I think that's right, as long as we don't kill off another person's character without their permission. We can't ask another character to act in a way that they wouldn't, but we can also negotiate before any killing of main characters take place, as I'm sure you'd do.

Rian, I do not plan to do anything hostile to anyone's characters unless that person and I have worked it out privately by PM. So no one will have to worry about a sudden disappearance of someone's character, please note I am not now in any PMs with anyone to obtain that goal. :)

Good idea. Can you think of any we need that aren't here yet?

I consider this an RPG in "transition," and possibly a learning experience for those like you who are in a RPG for the first time. I find this group by far a more civilized group than what I have always been dealing, ie, wargamers, and therefore much more reasonable. Since it is transition, I think some rules will naturally evolve.

However, in the future, it would be impossible to say who might join. It goes without saying that if anyone becomes personally threatening, uses foul language, etc, etc, this person will be dealt with by the moderators. That said, I would suggest that if any "Bang, bang, you're dead" quick-on-the-trigger RPGers join and try to do mayhem against an RPGer's wishes that the moderator is the final arbitrator. That should avoid sticky, unpleasant situations right from the beginning.

Perhaps this could be worded something like, "No player is to kill, maim, injure another player's character unless the aforesaid can give substantial proof that an agreement has been worked out with the other person that such damage is acceptable. The proof would consist of private messages between the two parties. The moderator xxx and/or xxx is/are the final judge(s) as to the validity of such actions." This should be an unbreakable RULE, and recorded in the information thread.

[Rían]

Rian, I do not plan to do anything hostile to anyone's characters unless that person and I have worked it out privately by PM. No, I didn't think you would - I was just reiterating some thoughts.


NOTE - I have now edited post #410, with Arastud and Melwin (?) or whatever her name was.

And I'm OUTTA HERE! Enjoy the rest of your weekends, guys!

[Udukhaturz]

Great post, Udu. Realistic approach (I mean the splinters ;) ). And I liked that Khamul's lies about Aiwendis had played their part. Interesting new sub-plot.

Gordis, since Udu is a Nazgûl, the damage should heal quickly when (if) he is released from the invisible chains. Until then, the injuries will hurt. :) Yes, Khamûl's ideas have taken hold in Udu's mind, and he will trust no one in Tharbad. He has not seen any of them for almost fifty years, and he really did not want to see them again. :) He was more or less content in the East and is having second thoughts about being in Tharbad. Definitely a sub-plot there about Aiwendis. Udu is going to be an even more bitter Nazgûl by the time he finally leaves.

[Serenoli]

Gordis, regarding the queries you had about Tolvadok... you are pretty good. Don't change your post. I have hardly posted much, so its hard to understand his charcter right away. Every person will percieve Tolvadok in a different way, and I think Aiwendis, who is so delicate, would not like him much. He is not like Khamul, because Khamul strikes me as a much more brutal person. Tolvadok is too impersonal to be brutal, but he is certainly evil :evil:
Earlier, you asked if he's a Numenorean, but he's not. The kingdom he came from was in the North east, somewhere near Eregion, and I think I mentioned they were allies with the Elves who helped create the Rings of Power.

Rian very pretty love-scenes. How funny the Arastud and Annawen scene was! And I like the singing, but I don't know the poem.

BTW, I won't be here from the day after tomorrow for about 4days. Reason: Its Eid!!! :)
Anyway, I would really appreciate it if someone would temporarily post for Tolvadok, and Jas Fernik. I hate missing out just when the exciting fight-scenes are coming up. But there's nothing I can do about it, so are there any takers?

[Valandil]

Nay, Val, this was NOT a NEW thing! Pretty explicit?? You are mistaken. The fell Beasts were new thing, not the horses.

Rhadagast says to Gandalf: "The nazgul, all Nine, disguised as Black Riders, as of old " Pray tell me how can one be disguised as a "Rider" without a horse? Are you trying to tell me that the Nazgul had to WALK for 4000 years, before Sauron prepared horses for them? And what did the Witch King ride in the battle of Fornost? Please check that out.

Here's the Radagast quote as I found it in the book: "The Nine are abroad again. They have crossed the River secretly and are moving westward. They have taken the guise of riders in black."

The part bolded is what makes me think there's something new here. Was it the 'black' part? :confused:

For more details, please, read my thread "Nazgul horses".

I did manage to read most of it. I don't think it's proof conclusive that their late Third Age horses were mearas - but I certainly don't think a Nazgul could walk up to any old meara and make them its mount.

I think they were more likely in Rhovanion, as the Eoteod moved to the upper Vales of Anduin after the fall of Angmar in 1975. I don't see why some horses couldn't be found in Gondor or Arnor. They should be quite rare and costly, but not impossible.


I'll stick with upper Anduin. The ancestors of the Rohirrim were probably in Rhovanion - or just hadn't arrived there yet. But their first recorded encounter with a meara was the one Eorl captured and trained, after it had killed his father. That was upper Anduin.

(EDIT: and most of them were probably running free until tamed by the Eotheod... so I'm not sure 'costly' applies)

Lotesse: as for the "1313 Mockingbird Lane" - there are two main reasons I thought so...

1. The state of the house when Rian first arrived.
2. What you Nine eventually do to my ancestral home of Minas Ithil!

Those just seemed to me to contrast sharply with the beautiful rooms you posted, with all the sunlight coming in, etc. :p

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I'm really sorry if I've caused any kind of delay guys. I'm back on normal Moot time for another two weeks now, before I'm away again.
Thanks for all who posted for Khamûl, all posts were fine and no editing required.

As for Orrodel lay out, I had some ideas which I'll try and put up later. It's more of a layout than detailed room descriptions.

[Rían]

Nice to see you back, TD! :)

I'd like to coordinate Rian's firing/leaving with you - I'll PM you in a bit.

[CrazySquirrel]

What great posts!!! Glad you back, TD!

I have very little time today. Hust here for a moment - I had time to read only about Orrodel.
Sorry, have to run.
CS

[Rían]

Eärniel - I wrote some posts with you in them - let me know if you want me to edit anything. :) I worked in the things you mentioned to me - the kite, the armor - did you see them?

[Rían]

Rian - it was also interesting to learn that Tyaron is known as a 'swordsman'! What can you tell us about that? :)

Just an idea of mine, that Tyaron's personality and body type make him best suited to the sword, and Alagos' personality and body type make him best suited to the bow, although as typical proficient elven men :cool: they can both do either. Just that they're better at one. (And since he's MY character, I'm making him one of the best in Gondolin! Known throughout the city, of course :cool: )

Speaking of men of Gondolin, I've never quite forgiven JRRT for making Tuor's weapon of choice an axe :mad: Just seems so ... dwarven to me - makes me think of the dwarves in "The Hobbit".

[Rían]

Rian very pretty love-scenes. How funny the Arastud and Annawen scene was! And I like the singing, but I don't know the poem. Thanks - I had those ideas in my head for a bit, and finally got around to writing and posting them (the song-"fight" for Rian and co., and the Faramir thing for Arastud and Annawen).

So does anyone besides Lotesse know what the poem/song is yet? Remember, please don't post the name if you know it - just say you know it, and PM me with the name - thanks :)

BTW, I won't be here from the day after tomorrow for about 4days. Reason: Its Eid!!! :) I had to look that one up, and found a fun website: here (http://www.eidmubarak.com/) with some cute animations :) Happy Eid, or whatever the proper greeting is :)

[The last sane person]

Its Eid, as in Noruz? Say what? How'd I manage to miss that? No its not! Eid is in the spring time, its the new year for us! Oops, wait, wrong Eid....Hehehe, happy celebrations Serenoli!

Well, I am gonna post the race soon, you guys are crawling at a snails pace!

[Rían]

Great post, Sane! I think Rian might have fallen for Ray if she didn't already like Tyaron and Val - he's such a neat guy! I love his horse, too - "yeah, just gotta do my duty and preserve the line!" ;)

Yeah, we need the Nazzies to finish up their fight. I have my guys at dawn already.

[The last sane person]

Great post, Sane! I think Rian might have fallen for Ray if she didn't already like Tyaron and Val - he's such a neat guy! I love his horse, too - "yeah, just gotta do my duty and preserve the line!" ;)

Yeah, we need the Nazzies to finish up their fight. I have my guys at dawn already.

Yep, I am really really attached to Ray! A male me (sort of)!

Well, aren't all studs like that? Volricom certainly has a fine eye for the females, I have to all but choke him sometimes, its crazy!

[Rían]

Yeah, you gotta know how to handle a stallion - they're strong, and stubborn!

[The last sane person]

Yeah, fortunatly they turn out to be quite the gentlemen if trained right. Its rare that I have to use a bit or saddle with Volricom, just when there are mares in heat about....I am currently working on my race post...having trouble typing with this blasted stitches.

[Butterbeer]

ahhhh, the curse of the egyptian-tartan beast strikes again ... or ... WAIT! is it the curse of the the finger-slicers: where was Valandil heh? or his dad?

mmm ... first greywolf then shah .... spooky ... then again it IS Halloween .... ;)

TO ALL **

avoid egyptian mummies and tartan hat wearing beasties and the heirs of Isuldir when chopping anything, ok?

Hope both Shah's and greywolf's fingers /hands recover soon ....

spooky, i say .... :eek: :eek:

[The last sane person]

yeah, it is kinda weird, but then again, my hand was injured for a while, this is just a new occurance. *types away at the race*

[Grey_Wolf]

TO ALL **

avoid egyptian mummies and tartan hat wearing beasties and the heirs of Isuldir when chopping anything, ok?

Hope both Shah's and greywolf's fingers /hands recover soon ....



Thanks. They are a good way on the road to recovery as I posted in TVT. :)

[Gordis]

All! The Evil Cartographer has prepared a new MAP- ground level of Orrodel in order to bind you more effectively in the Darkness.
http://photobucket.com/albums/a337/Gor-Dis/?action=view&current=orrodel6.jpg

I understood, TD, you are also working on the Orrodel plan. I would gladly leave the job to you. But I decided to post mine, as it was already prepared.
All comments and suggestions welcome.

BB Where are you? Will you ever post for Bumble? The poor drunk man was left talking with the Chancellor.

Rian and LSP, please, stop this urging "nazzies finish quickly", and so on. I can't post three posts a day. I simply can't. Period. It applies to the other nazgul, I believe. Our characters don't sleep at night, while yours do. Your problem. Try to see nice dreams. Draw a plan of your house. Whatever. First Lotesse with "finish your fight double-quick", than you. :( Some have more time for RPG-ing, some have less. It is life.


Very nice posts, everybody.

[Rían]

Sorry, Gordis, I meant it as good-natured ribbing. :) Do the best you can with the time you have - sorry you don't have more time, because I really enjoy your posts! Right now, I have much more free time than I did a few weeks ago, so I'm posting a lot.

[Lotesse]

Wonderful new posts! TD - great 2 see you back - great posts, TD & CS, Serenoli, Grey Wolf, Gordis, Rian, and especially Shah - Shah, that was a beautiful posts - and no, not just because Ray's thinking so sweetly of Viv! :D Such a beautiful post.

The Nazgul fight - the reason why I am asking day after day that we can PLEASE bring this Nazgul fight to either a conclusion or a postponement, is because IT IS EXCLUDING ME. The fight has been drawn out for 2 weeks now, and is supposed to take - what, one hour of RPG time? Let me ask a question - if Viv were to enter the room right now, what would happen to her? I'm just curious. What would happen to her? I sincerely would like to know, and I'm asking all my other Nazgul player-family this question - Gordis, Udu, Crazy Squirrel, TD, and Serenoli. What will you do to or with Viv, should she come into the room right now? Kill her? Maim her? Revile her? Ignore her?

And how long must this fight continue to drag out? And I don't expect 3 posts a day FAR from it; I can barely keep up with the volume of posts Rian gives us. It is a very colourful and entertaining fight, but when is enough enough?

[Gordis]

Serenoli,, I am glad that you liked my post. So let Tolvadok and Aiwendis dislike each other. :)

Val, You were right, in LoTR proper Radagast says : "They have taken the guise of riders in black." My fault. But I am sure, that the original sentence, published in "Return of the Shadow" contained "as of old". I remember it quite clearly, though I have no access to any of the books now.
Anyway, nowhere in LOTR it is explicitly said, or implied that riding horses was new for the nazgul. And my point about the Battle of Fornost still stands.
They have taken the guise of riders in black.The part bolded is what makes me think there's something new here. Was it the 'black' part?
Neither. The nazgul sat quietly at Minas Morgul for a very long time -1000 years. When were they last seen? When they took Minas Ithil in TA 2002.
What guise had they at this time? Probably not great black cloaks, concealing their shapes. Perhaps they wore armour, not needing any disguise. When were all the nine riding abroad all together as a little special force military unit? Perhaps never, or back in the Second Age...

I did manage to read most of it. I don't think it's proof conclusive that their late Third Age horses were mearas - but I certainly don't think a Nazgul could walk up to any old meara and make them its mount.. There is proof that the nazgul horses were able to ride as fast as Shadowfax, or just a little slower. They were outstanding horses. Possibly Mearas.

As for the last question, a nazgul without his ring was always at least troubling for mortals and animals. However, Gandalf said (I am again quoting from memory), that if Saruman managed to kill the nazgul's Fell Beast, then "let Rohan watch its horses". It means, that a nazgul, even in a weakened, ringless state, was able to approach a free horse and ride it. Of course, there is a difference between a random mount, that they might use for travelling, and a trained war-horse. For instance, the war-horse that the Witch King rode at Osgiliath (see Boromir's account) was able to withstand the full force of his terror spell, when both Gondorean soldiers and their horses ran blindly away, abandoning the Bridges.

I'll stick with upper Anduin. The ancestors of the Rohirrim were probably in Rhovanion - or just hadn't arrived there yet. But their first recorded encounter with a meara was the one Eorl captured and trained, after it had killed his father. That was upper Anduin.
Again you may be right, though the upper Anduin doesn't look to me as a land suitable for horses. But please, think of another implication: if you are right, than Mearas lived on the teritorry of Angmar Kingdom. Why couldn't then the Witch-King get himself one? :p

2. What you Nine eventually do to my ancestral home of Minas Ithil!
What is wrong with Minas Morgul :(? Pale flowers. Luminous walls. A wonderfully designed tower with rotating upper level. What a view from there! An eerie, beautiful place, not some orc-den. Your "ancestral home" was much improved by skilful designers! :p

[Butterbeer]

ahhh! fret not good lotesse, Butterbeer is here ... :p ( ;) )

... actually you'll now be fine to join the party ... cus our Lord and Captian ... (and the treacherous - eh udu????? ;) ... Aiwendis are now here ... :) ) ...wotcha GOR ;)



.... now this is gonna ramble in a more spindly currambling way than a bramble .... i, too Lotesse have just caught up on a marathon catch-up read ..... in the words of the immortal and totally wonderful Earniel ( :) )

HOOOOOBOY!

ever recover from that
...so much to say, so good a read .... blah-de-bing, blah-de-boom ...

quick point ere i forget all else ... nope forgotten it ... :o

oh yeah ... TD .... boy! you are in for a barrel of criticism ... after the level of writing you have set yourself .... jeez, i actually half-heartedly made scribbled (unreadable) notes ... can'yt actually read em' mind ...

oh yeah .... SERIOUS criticism here ( ;) ) ... don't think khamul; would refer to the 'chancellor' among the naz so ... he's only been here for a few days at most ....

WHHHHOOOOSH! ... will TD evere recover from the seriousness of that point? .... we but wait and see ... :D



...just guessing now but i may have to make this over a number of posts lest i hit the brick wall of the dreaded

TOO MANY SMILIES LAW :(


HANG ON ... going to preview mode ...

[Rían]

As for the last question, a nazgul without his ring was always at least troubling for mortals and animals. However, Gandalf said (I am again quoting from memory), that if Saruman managed to kill the nazgul's Fell Beast, then "let Rohan watch its horses". It means, that a nazgul, even in a weakened, ringless state, was able to approach a free horse and ride it.
I don't think that's necessarily so. I always understood that to mean that the Nazgul would send some servants to trap and drive the horses to their abode, then slowly train them to tolerate their presence once the horses were in a small, enclosed area, unable to break free. It's hard to catch and ride a horse in the open that doesn't want to be caught and ridden, although you can herd them if you know what you're doing.

[Gordis]

The Nazgul fight - the reason why I am asking day after day that we can PLEASE bring this Nazgul fight to either a conclusion or a postponement, is because IT IS EXCLUDING ME. It was your own choice to be excluded from it! You could come any time and say what you felt was right for Viv. As to the other's reaction - you could wait and see. No, of course she will not be killed or maimed. She is your main character. But she may have been hurt, or her feelings could be hurt. The latter almost certain. That is the thrill of the game. Just don't associate yourself too much with Viv. :)

"Let me ask a question - if Viv were to enter the room right now, what would happen to her? I'm just curious. What would happen to her? I sincerely would like to know, and I'm asking all my other Nazgul player-family this question - Gordis, Udu, Crazy Squirrel, TD, and Serenoli. What will you do to or with Viv, should she come into the room right now? Kill her? Maim her? Revile her? Ignore her?"
Come and see. If Viv comes after the Morgul Lord, then I think she would be safe from physical violence. I believe we are almost at drinking and talking.

[Lotesse]

Didn't mean to come off as so grumpy - anyway, I'll log on again later on today when I've got a chance to use my boyfriend's computer, gotta go now - when everyone in Orrodel is out of invisible chains, and not being horse-whipped anymore, and are actually speaking civilly to one another, Viv'll come up & say hi. :)

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

BB, you were right about the Chancellor thing. I changed it to Mogul Lord.

Lotesse, if you had walked in, in the middle of the fight, it is most likley you would have been either sen to deal with the maid or 'tied up' with the others, but your character would not have been killed.

[Butterbeer]

Pre-edit EDIT: damn! hit by the smililes rule once again ....

right, where was i?


...well as an aside from where ever i was ... GOR: you must remember that old bumble is very forgetful .... ;) ;)


of course i am very different from his character ....but just now i have far too much flowing faster than the rapids of vienna coursing through my head .... so for a brief tragi-comic momment me an' ol' bumble share a character momment ... :D :p ;)

ok-doky ....back to the ...er.. thingy ...


in no particular order:

Lotesse

great post #408 ... tight, good continuity (actually do NOT mention continuity to me just now .... BAH! :( ... just a real-life aside) ...

particularly liked the "...letting someone live rent-free in your heart"

and the seminal ..."smell of human lust"

... quick one (Gor will love this ... ;) ... regarding your lovely horse ....

lomi= mistress ..fine ..it's a companion /commision thing ... Mearas = rider (however the love bond nmay grow to be) = 'Mistress' ??? ... IMHO .. NAY! (horse pun ...intended :D )

... you can have it how you like for me ref horses and Viv ...but would a mearas consider it's rider it's Mistress .... nay! If a mearaas .. then your lovely horse will be proud ...not to say he/she cannot be loyal and loving .... but NO rider would be it's superior ..not even gandalf .... just a thought there ... :)

Val: i generally support you on the meareas side of horses (wotcha Gor ... but FULLY support the rpg Naz WITH rings to be as OK with animals as they are with elves - a founding principle of this rpg if you read the starting points again ... ... and for lottesse to have a Mearas ... is fine if unlikely ...but fine all the same for my personal view ... but for all other horses they should be VERY RARE INDEED ....

just my thoughts ... ok? :)

[Lotesse]

Ciao, BB! Yes, I DID hesitate a little before I went ahead & put mistress - but I think you're right; a Mearas has his or her Rider, just as much as the Rider has a Mearas. It's sort of a relationship of equality, I think, no? Glad you liked my post! There's something special planned coming up for Viv and company, which will be happening RPG-tomorrow, most likely. :cool: Can't wait to post it. Anyway...

[Gordis]

I don't think that's necessarily so. I always understood that to mean that the Nazgul would send some servants to trap and drive the horses to their abode, then slowly train them to tolerate their presence once the horses were in a small, enclosed area, unable to break free. It's hard to catch and ride a horse in the open that doesn't want to be caught and ridden, although you can herd them if you know what you're doing.

Now you made me go and find the exact quote, Rian! :)
Gandalf explains the possible fate of Saruman to Pippin, while carrying him to Gondor on Shadowfax:
But Saruman certainly looked in the Stone since the orc-raid, and more of his secret thought, I do not doubt, has been read than he intended. A messenger has been sent to find out what he is doing. And after what has happened tonight another will come, I think, and swiftly. So Saruman will come to the last pinch of the vice that he has put his hand in. He has no captive to send. He has no Stone to see with, and cannot answer the summons. Sauron will only believe that he is withholding the captive and refusing to use the Stone. It will not help Saruman to tell the truth to the messenger. For Isengard may be ruined, yet he is still safe in Orthanc. So whether he will or no, he will appear a rebel. Yet he rejected us, so as to avoid that very thing! What he will do in such a plight, I cannot guess. He has power still, I think, while in Orthanc, to resist the Nine Riders. He may try to do so. He may try to trap the Nazgûl, or at least to slay the thing on which it now rides the air. In that case let Rohan look to its horses!
So they are discussing the situation when a nazgul comes to Orthank alone and Saruman slays his Fell Beast. There are no servants. There is no time to train a horse. But Gandalf believes the nazgul is capable of taking one of Rohan horses and riding it back to Mordor.

[Udukhaturz]

Great seeing TD and BB back.

Gordis, I really liked your room layout map. I have seen a number of floor plans for medieval keeps and to some degree, your floor plan follows them. I greatly appreciate all your maps. It helps Udu know where he is going. :)

"I sincerely would like to know, and I'm asking all my other Nazgul player-family this question - Gordis, Udu, Crazy Squirrel, TD, and Serenoli. What will you do to or with Viv, should she come into the room right now? Kill her? Maim her? Revile her? Ignore her?" - Lotesse

It is rather difficult to do anything when there are three of us chained with invisible chains. :)

Nice posts, everyone.

[Lotesse]

Shah - did I already compliment your latest post? It's brilliant, I do love it so. And Udu - good stuff, as usual! Won't Ilmenzor be irritated at Khamul for tying everyone up and bull-whipping Lilly, though? He seems like the type that would find all the violence distasteful. Especially ruining Lilly's gorgeous skin. Oh, what do I know. BTW, isn't the maid already dealt with? Maybe RPG-Udu isn't aware that Merwen was already dealt with... Oh, I can't WAIT to see what Aiwendis & Ilmenzor have to say when they walk in that room!! :D

[Butterbeer]

right, time to stop rambling .. especially as i keep getting distracted by other posts both before and during mine ... :D ... and quite possibly after???? ...well this is but part 3 and i haven't even touched trying to un-encrypt my hasty notes ..... maybe i should have been a doctor??

....mmmm? ... someone mention not rambling?

Rian... diapers????????

...

*after long-kissing the somewhat perplexed Rian*

" Tyaron rose more slowly ... checking his sword (and dagger) :D

LOL! .... you girls and your "swords" ;)


... "longing to do for over 3,000 years " :p ... him and kahmul should get together one night and go see the eastern dancing girls .... :D


Shah: loved the fog-wars! .... yes, willow nay marge! ...tis foggy ... though i concur fog can be variable! :) ... mucho fun all on the fog wars! :D

*can't make head or tail of my next "note" *

(well, tis' a foggy old town - (starts singing the pogues "dirty ol' town" *)


Shah: where's marty? .. i hope you are not showing favouritism for ray over marty?

...there'll be a stewards enquiry else .... mind you, we have a mearas to make you get the old calculus table out ..... i hope it is a nail-biter whichever way it goes ....

suspense dear GUV .... suspense ...

loved the great stallion STUD line .... great line there!


.... can't even start to say all that i mean to ... but ALL ... and that includes the seminal ''we seek him there, we seek him there" travelling-man - here one minute gone without any rythme or reason, the next ... but much loved for it all the same - Sir GW :) .... excellent posting indeed ...


so i am REMISS in not having been able to join in or keep up the last few days ... and in NO WAY being able to comment on ALL the wonderful, descriptions of fog, fairies, fountains, fights, friends, foughts (normally spelt with a 'TH' ;) ) ... ghosts, new characters, elves, kings, horses, professors, lust, dances, rings, songs, poems, loves, drink, tortures, machinations and .... spare a thought for my poor humble fingers as they slave away at this 'ere keyboard attempting to describe the roller-coaster of a rpg ride we have enjoyed together ... - catching up ....

*whew* ;)

well, hereth endeth part 3 (for now) ....

back in a bit when i have caught me breath ...

best all BB

- and seriously ALL - some very good writing indeed

[The last sane person]

Ooh, this next post will have Marty in it, its gonna be a fun one! Thanks for the comments all, I just write what i feel, an from memory.

[Rían]

BB - well, I took some artistic license with "diapers" ... I don't suppose they had disposable Pampersâ„¢ (or nappies, as you say on your side of the pond) or anything, but they must have used something! And Arastud, despite his suggestive name, is a fine, upstanding young man, and has really had no one in that general region since his last diapers were taken off.

And i just had to keep the sword motif going :D (where oh where is King Val?)

3,000 years - yeah, Tyaron's had to take a few cold showers ... ;) But seriously, as JRRT writes in his essay on elven traditions (including marriage and sex), elves are naturally monogamous; it's not a struggle with them - it's their nature.

I'm really looking foward to Bumble's class! Can't wait! Cook up some goodies for us, ok?

[Lotesse]

This is a great story to read on Hallowe'en, you guys, huh! Our RPG is the bomb! :)

[Rían]

So they are discussing the situation when a nazgul comes to Orthank alone and Saruman slays his Fell Beast. There are no servants. There is no time to train a horse. But Gandalf believes the nazgul is capable of taking one of Rohan horses and riding it back to Mordor.
Yes, that is a good point - you've semi-convinced me of the possibility, although I do NOT think it would be a simple matter of hopping on and riding off. I imagine there would be torture and fear involved - chasing a single horse into a dead end, beating and terrifying it into shaken and rebellious submission, and a lot of fight on the part of the horse at first, until it is broken down through brutality. Don't you think so?

I really hope to see you Nazgul deal with animal reactions, and write some subtle animal fear reactions in your posts.

[Butterbeer]

Rian:
BB -

(where oh where is King Val?)



:D

heh, Rian! :D

... more to the point though ...where is Queen Earniel???

i feel you are all REMISS :p ( ;) ) in not not noticing her absence .... i sincerely hope it is not anything you all know about that i don't? ...

I sincerely hope it has nothing to do with the friendly ( i hope) eagles discussion thing? ... that was never meant in any negative way at all!

Earniel ... where are are you? We (well, i at do any way) miss you ....

very best BB :)

*scrupuiouslsy .. - at least means it better than he can spell it - decides NOT to send Earniel any flowers! :) ;) ... remembers last time ... :o *

btw: very much liked the fountains et al ...

so, SHAH, if i remember correctly ... the GUV was going to make a post? ... talking of which ... VAL ... when id Elmir Phudd going to honour us with his watch-like efficiency? ;)

(sorry ... spelling gone out the window just now ....very much enjoying posting with you guys ...but am mentally drained just now ..)

BB :)

[Rían]

I've seen her on several times today for a short time, and have PMed her with some suggestions for our two elf-chicks getting together again, and await her posts eagerly :) I love her subtle humor!

Eärniel, Eärniel, come back :)

or I will make our rpg characters mud-wrestle! ;)

[Lotesse]

I know, huh! Where IS Earniel lately? And you, too, BB - you haven't posted much as of late, either! Maybe you can have the tortoises see a Nazgul, and freak out and "run away" - maybe the tortoises would not like the Nazgul. It would be funny, though! Imagine tortoises freaking out (which is in itself kinda funny) and then trying to run away (how fast can they run? :D )

[Rían]

That's a great idea, Lotesse! Go for it, BB!

Well, I really want to stay and chat here, it's such fun! but I need to run to the store - I'll be back in a bit, then can't get on until after lunch tomorrow.

Goodbye, all! Get some good posts up for me to read by tomorrow, if you can! (Especially YOU, Eärniel! :) I need to know if what I posted for you is OK - check my PMs. And you, too, Val!! Your posts are always so well-written and interesting! Go, forces of good! W00t W00t!)

[Butterbeer]

Serenoli,,

Val, You were right, in LoTR proper Radagast says : "They have taken the guise of riders in black." My fault. But I am sure, that the original sentence, published in "Return of the Shadow" contained "as of old". I remember it quite clearly, though I have no access to any of the books now.
Anyway, nowhere in LOTR it is explicitly said, or implied that riding horses was new for the nazgul. And my point about the Battle of Fornost still stands.


. There is proof that the nazgul horses were able to ride as fast as Shadowfax, or just a little slower. They were outstanding horses. Possibly Mearas.

As for the last question, a nazgul without his ring was always at least troubling for mortals and animals. However, Gandalf said (I am again quoting from memory), that if Saruman managed to kill the nazgul's Fell Beast, then "let Rohan watch its horses". It means, that a nazgul, even in a weakened, ringless state, was able to approach a free horse and ride it. Of course, there is a difference between a random mount, that they might use for travelling, and a trained war-horse.




GOR :) ... was it not you who said this should be taken over to the nazgul horses thread?

mind you, completely disregarding that ... ;) .... the quote (from memory) said "let Rohan LOOK to it's horses" ..i.e. to hunt the fallen nazgul down!

(only 100.01% certain on that one ... still could be wrong ;) ;) )

... and as you said to me before .... old rhaddy et al are well in the future .... in our vibrant and as lotesse said: a "bomb" of an rpg! :)

.......



...as you know ... from of old (in the future as it were ;) ( :D ) ... )

i disagree with the mearas speed of the naz's horses .... :p

best though, BB :)

[Butterbeer]

I know, huh! Where IS Earniel lately? And you, too, BB - you haven't posted much as of late, either! Maybe you can have the tortoises see a Nazgul, and freak out and "run away" - maybe the tortoises would not like the Nazgul. It would be funny, though! Imagine tortoises freaking out (which is in itself kinda funny) and then trying to run away (how fast can they run? :D )


wotcha!

well, i ain't been able to post (nor read) for being too busy for a while ... (someone mention EID? just done a muslim fashion commercial targeted at buying new garments for Eid - a BIG success apparently :) :) ) ....ANYWAY ... like the tortoise idea very much .... though i don't think i'll post it // come to think of it i have at least TWO place holders to write .... :o

not to mention writing something new in terms of new developments ....

looking forward to Viv re-joining the household once the Margul lord is there .... AND the race tommorow?

was it Valandil ? ... who noted it had taken us approx 2 months to do 3 days or so? :p ... to me that's actually a good thing (provided we can ALL join in)

... well, Lotesse, the doors are well and truly open ...


regarding our rpg ... we have over the last 2 and a bit months have had over 13,000 views .... well over 3,000 discussion posts ... and many many rpg posts and many-fold views of the RPG ....

and you know what?

it is getting better and better ... Not at all thining out ... but like a good stew in a slow-pot ... maturing and strengthening into a full bodied taste ... enriching the slow-boiling plot and flavour ... not to mention simmering at the edges ... yet being succulent and tasty in the centre ...

best, BB :)

[Lotesse]

BB you're making me hungry for lamb stew!! :)

Gordis - I love your new post!!! We cross-posted, though; one little thing is that I have Viv pacing in the basement; I'll have her come upstairs after she hears Ilmenzor come in and settle things down. Maybe he can say, "Where is our Viniglaen," or something and by that time Viv'll have come up from the cellar and she can say, "here I am, my Lord," or something to that effect. I LOVE how he handles the situation! It's exactly as I'd imagined the Morgul Lord would have been. :) :cool:

[Gordis]

Yes, that is a good point - you've semi-convinced me of the possibility, although I do NOT think it would be a simple matter of hopping on and riding off. I imagine there would be torture and fear involved - chasing a single horse into a dead end, beating and terrifying it into shaken and rebellious submission, and a lot of fight on the part of the horse at first, until it is broken down through brutality. Don't you think so?

No I don't. I only see, that you must be too much influenced by PJ's Very Bad Movie... :)

Bye, All!

[Udukhaturz]

“BTW, isn't the maid already dealt with? Maybe RPG-Udu isn't aware that Merwen was already dealt with.� - Lotesse

Udu was too occupied with trying to break out of his chains to know or care what Khamûl was doing with the maid.

“him and kahmul should get together one night and go see the eastern dancing girls ....� - BB

That is what Udu has been wanting to do all night - see the dancing girls. :D

“mind you, completely disregarding that ... .... the quote (from memory) said "let Rohan LOOK to it's horses" ..i.e. to hunt the fallen nazgul down!� - BB

I have never heard that theory before. I always took the expression “look to its horses� to mean “watch out or they will steal every horse they can.�

[Gordis]

BB you're making me hungry for lamb stew!! :)

Gordis - I love your new post!!! We cross-posted, though; one little thing is that I have Viv pacing in the basement; I'll have her come upstairs after she hears Ilmenzor come in and settle things down. Maybe he can say, "Where is our Viniglaen," or something and by that time Viv'll have come up from the cellar and she can say, "here I am, my Lord," or something to that effect. I LOVE how he handles the situation! It's exactly as I'd imagined the Morgul Lord would have been. :) :cool:
Thank you. I really felt like sleeping, nor writing posts, but as everyone is so impatient to continue... here it is.

No, "Where is our Viniglaen?" doesn't fit, as each of the nazgul feels the other's presence keenly, especially the ML. He knows she comes upstairs without looking. So, just, please, add to your post, that Viv decided to go upstairs and look.

Shah, A beautiful post, but there is no Rohan yet. And Eorl lived about 2500 years after our story.

[Lotesse]

O.K., I put it that she comes upstairs after the tension's been resolved, and the Morgul Lord acknowledges her presence without even turning his head to look at her as she enters the boudoir, but kept everything the same. It works, yes? :) Now she's making little cucumber sandwiches and sliced boiled eggs and carpaccio slices and stuff like that since the help's nowhere to be found tonight in Orrodel. It's amazing, the size of that home and not ONE servant to be found. :rolleyes: Except for Merwen. Who's gone now.

[The last sane person]

SHoot, I know that, but there WERE some sort of Rohan-proto-type people, no? I distinctly remeber something about horselords. I cant boogering find my books, because I have a nagging suspicion that they were left in Hawaii, can some on fill me in on those people's names?

[Butterbeer]

Gordis
No I don't. I only see, that you must be too much influenced by PJ's Very Bad Movie...

Bye, All!

whoa, there gor, you fine mare .... (no offence meant ... just going with the horsey stuff! :) )

i do agree with you .... but chill .... ( oh... forgets this is me saying this .... :o ... :D ... well you know what i mean! ;) )

guess we should re-open the nazgul horses thread .... sorry i ain't been hardly no where last few days but here on the moot ... so if it has moved on .. i wouldn't know ... :o )

c'mon guys i'm trying to turn over a new leaf and be more myself on here ... rather than take the wonderfully given moot opportunity to be a child again and have fun ... (all good technically :) ) .... yet - and here's the point - try and stop being so stupidly childish or agumentative ... this side of my moot experience is neither right nor seemly i feel ... much as i enjoy the release from everyday pressures that the moot gives me ... i think i should try to be a little more circumspect and thoughtful on here ...

despite originally coming on here (and finding) this place from personal loss ... and both using this as a release and a good fun place to create and play ... i now feel i should be more responsible on here, which god knows i haven't always been .... it's funny how you can look at, read, and indeed write things here, that you would not normally ... and in one way that's no bad thing ... but i guess for me it's time to step back from that and counter my love of the absurd, and the fun, and whatever with a touch of maturity .... now that is not to say that i will not still enjoy having fun here .... but i will be more responsible .... so GOR ;) ... chill .... lest you set me a bad role model! ;) ;)


best BB :)

[Lotesse]

Was it the Dunlendings? No, maybe not them - but I agree, there WERE pre-Rohan days & peoples there; there HAD to have been.

BB - Gordis isn't being negative!! YOU chill, you big silly goose! We're just exploring the Nazgul Mearas subject a little here, since now there's Laslech and the subject needed addressing again. It's ALL good, nobody's "fighting!" :)

[The last sane person]

There had always been the great Horse-Lord types, throughout the ages, they just all had different names... Its just that I forgot THESE bunch of horselords... Will edit, as soon as I find out their Blasted names! :mad:

[Butterbeer]

lotesse:
BB - Gordis isn't being negative!! YOU chill, you big silly goose! We're just exploring the Nazgul Mearas subject a little here, since now there's Laslech and the subject needed addressing again. It's ALL good, nobody's "fighting!"

yeah, i know ... was just joshing Gor ... though it did come across a bit sharpish, mind!

ps .. have added the quote i was reffering to ... ;)

[Lotesse]

Well, gotta go to dinner now - and I'm REALLY craving lamb stew! :)

[Butterbeer]

:D


(edit; that's too short apparently)

so ....
here's another:

:D

edit 2 ***

gotta go to bed .... just realised it's 25' to 2am ....

been fun guys and gals ... :)

best BB

[The last sane person]

mroo, about to post Marty's warm up, blast it all, I STILL cant find those peoples names.

[Rían]

No I don't. I only see, that you must be too much influenced by PJ's Very Bad Movie... :) Oh, come now, you don't need to insult me! :p ;) Them are fightin' words! :D Animals' disquiet, if not downright FEAR around the Ringwraiths are absolute Tolkien canon. I won't bother to quote the examples from LOTR, as I'm sure you know them, but I'll quote two bits about the Ringwraiths from "Letters" :

from Letter #131
The Third Age is concerned mainly with the Ring. The Dark Lord is no longer on his throne, but his monsters are not wholly destroyed, and his dreadful servants, slaves of the Ring, endure as shadows among the shadows.

from Letter #210
It is based on a misconception of the Black Riders throughout, which I beg Z to reconsider. Their peril is almost entirely due to the unreasoning fear which they inspire (like ghosts). They have no great physical power against the fearless; but what they have, and the fear they inspire, is enormously increased in darkness.

I doubt if a Movie-First-person would quote from the sources that I have quoted from and am familiar with. The parts I like in the movie are the parts that line up with Tolkien's work, NOT the other parts! :)

BTW, I have a quote from the lovely Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth coming up to support a point I wish to bring up shortly :) Did you ever see our discussion thread on that? It's a fabulous work. I hope you've had a chance to read it :) Go Finrod!

[The last sane person]

Marty is now prepared and ready for the race, only Lotesse to go...though I dont know if she wants to write her own prep scene. And I will write the actual race...

[Udukhaturz]

For all of you who have been asking questions about the history and origins of the Rohirrim, go here. It is an outstanding site and it gives source references.

http://www.tuckborough.net/rohan.html

[The last sane person]

*hugs Udu* Thanks!!

[Rían]

Great posts, Sane and Lotesse - can't wait for the race!

Very nice portrayal of the Chancellor, Gordis - gives me the willies!

[The last sane person]

Heheh...Snoring king of Arnor. Thats fun. I am still wrestling with my head adn ME geography in order to post the race. I know what the city looks like, but I don't really know what lies outside of it. I am currently looking at maps.

[Rían]

A p.s. to Gordis -
Y'know, Gor, I made that post about how I think a Ringwraith would tame a horse as a person who knows horses well, and loves them very much. I spent many years riding, training, and showing horses. I've seen terrified horses, and horses that are abused. I know the RIGHT way to train them - the way we did - you take days and days just getting them used to the saddle blanket, then the saddle, etc. And that's only AFTER you gentle them so that we could slide off their tails, crawl under their bellies, etc. without them blinking an eye - because they TRUSTED us. :)

I didn't make that statement about my ideas of how a Ringwraith would tame a horse out of ignorance of horses, blinded by PJ's dazzling images on the big screen. I'm NOT a fan of PJ - I wouldn't cross the street to watch a movie of his, even if it was free, unless it was about Middle Earth, on the chance that he would get some of it right. :)

[Lotesse]

Ohhhhh, Rian, thou shalt not bag on PJ!!!! He is a gifted and wonderful filmmaker who gave us fantastic interpretations of Lord of the Rings!! Hate him not, I beseech you. Beseech. Was that spelled correctly? Probably not. Anyway, only on for 5 minutes; the hotel computer COSTS an rm, a leg and a temper and I cannot afford to lose my temper tonight... :)

The "ghosts" bit caught my attention, though. But Laslech does NOT fear ghosts. Cannot every animal have their own unique temperament, and take on things? One Mearas could have a natural bent toward uber-good, whilst anothwer might have ambiguity and nonchalance in re: the dark, or whatever. Take Lomi, for example. She's ambiguous. The light bothers her no more nor less than does the dark. I'd elaborate, but my time is up.

[The last sane person]

Indeed, the way Rian suggested is the only real way to tame a horse, you need to trust them, fear and being "broken" simpley DO not WORK!

[Lotesse]

Which is why Laslech neither fears the dark side, nor needs to be 'broken' by it - it is her own strength and choice to have Viv as a Rider. :)

[Serenoli]

Thanks to all who wished me happy Eid. The correct greeting is Eid Mubarak, actually, but it means the same thing, I think! And I'm glad to hear BB that your advertising (?) was a success. Buying new stuff is such a huge part of Eid :)

And, i've had some plan changes, and I'll be here today and tomorrow, ie for 48 hrs. So I can go on posting. :)

[Rían]

I'm glad you'll be on, Serenoli :)

Sane - :) I was SO glad I fell in with a guy who knew how to train horses right, and I'm glad you think the same way!

Congrats, BB!

All rpg'ers - Speaking for myself, I'm willing to stretch what I think is a very tenuous point in regard to the horses and go along with what the Nazgul people want, because this is canon + AU, but I really think it's wrong to have absolutely NO negative animal reaction. I don't remember seeing any negative reaction at all yet; all I remember seeing is animals liking the Nazgul. I can grant some unique temperament for individual animals, but given this:

from FOTR, Frodo speaking
"Then why do these black horses endure such riders? All other animals are terrified when they draw near, even the elf-horse of Glorfindel. The dogs howl and the geese scream at them"

I just can't see that all animals would be fine with them. I know it's an earlier time than LOTR, but I still think it's just a basic point that animals generally don't like Nazgul. And I stick by my opinion (and realize that it's opinion, but based on canon and my knowledge of horses) that a Nazgul would usually have to get a horse to let them ride it the way I said :cool: (but am willing to give some leniency in this rpg).

[Lotesse]

On a stolen hotel computer moment here, but... well, if you crave screaming geese, then by all means, post some!! :) Why not? The tortoises may scream too, if that is their wont. Maybe because Grey Wolf, Shah & I love animals so, and BB too, is why we haven't had the animals flipping out yet. Who knows. But if y'all want some animals to lose it, be my guest! It would make fun story, to have some of them lose it a little. :) Except Laslech, and Volcirom, and Lomi and the wolves. And the BB butterfly. Other than that, aside from complaining about it, Rian & Valandil et al, how about writing in some animal reactions of your own? :) Just a thought...

[Rían]

I was going to as soon as I got general consent, because I just want to make sure we're all cool with the groundrules :)

[The last sane person]

, aside from complaining about it, Rian & Valandil et al, how about writing in some animal reactions of your own? :) Just a thought...


Animal reactions of their own....*reads a little too far into that* Oh my...

[Rían]

heehee - I didn't see that, Sane, I guess I'm too tired. Goodnight!

[Valandil]

Well - as originally stated by "Animal" of the Muppets "Wooooo-man!!!!" :eek:

How's that? :p

[Rían]

*pops back on to edit a post, and to say*

Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluve!

:)

[Valandil]

OK everyone, particulars aside, my main issue lately is this: I really think all of you Nazgul players are over-playing the powers and abilities of the Nazgul. With no Maiar actively present, they have been portrayed as the Nine most powerful beings in Middle Earth. I think that is the wrong approach, and here is why:

First, from what Tolkien himself gave us. According to the Tale of Years, it was not until about year 1300 of the Third Age that the Nazgul re-appeared. I think they must have been really shattered by the defeat of Sauron at the end of the Second Age. Fifty years later may seem like a long time to you and me, but to them, it was very short - and they were only 1/26th of their way toward renewing themselves to the point where they were known to re-appear. The way they're written in this game, the Third Age would not have been the age of Men, or of Gondor - it would have been the age of the Nazgul! Even if we suppose they now have their rings - I think the Nine were probably their most fearsome with their rings when they were still Second Age rulers - warriors and sorcerers. I think they became a mere shadow of their former selves when they became wraiths, ca 2251. In early Third Age, I imagine a Nazgul would have have been a pretty pathetic creature. That wouldn't be so fun to play, which brings me to the next point...

Second, I don't think this game will stay workable if the Nazgul continue to be portrayed as 'all-powerful' as they have been. It's been a tricky game all along anyway - with two opposing sides actively playing.

I wonder even if the game is (or should be) winding down. I had thought it would last a long time (like the whole semester - maybe a year or more real time), but maybe it's nearly over. Some things have been resolved. The Morgul Lord seems to have likely deduced that Valandil does not have the One Ring (since he immediately pointed out that Valandil's 'Elven Ring' must be the Ring of Barahir) - and besides, the Nazgul are being played in such a way that the rest of us are NOT realistically going to be able to look the other way any longer.

If we are going to wind things down, we should settle on some ground rules. I will post my thoughts about those later, as I cannot take the time now.

I'm certainly open to discussion though. Do the rest of you think that's where we're headed? Do you agree to my points about how the Nazgul are being played?

(one particular, btw - is Khamul planting a lust for Arastud in Melwen. That was WAY too easy, particularly if it was to be something that was supposed to stay. And, here she was - just coming off a nearly fatal bout of Black Breathe, then gotten totally drunk - and she's supposed to now have an eternal desire for someone in whom she has taken no interest? And ACT on it? In HER state? At Khamul's whim? At MOST, Khamul could plant a desire for a moment, but doubtfully effective on one so physically incapacitated, and it would CERTAINLY have broken his concentration enough that the Nazgul he had trapped in the upstairs room would have been able to break free.)

(that's not the only one though - some of it has been violation of the High King's chambers, property, mind and heart... I believe in justice, so those things WILL be addressed! :evil: )

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

I don't think they're being so obvious that it'll bring the story to the climax this soon. They've been careless certainly, but I think they'll be more careful once Morgul gives them a talking to. It's far too early to bring the game to a close. Many characters and motives are only just now being introduced, there's plenty more story to go. And even if we do end up suspecting earlier than we meant to, our charcters don't actually have to act on said suspiscion right away. There could be all sorts of complications.

I do agree that the 'sorcery' aspect of the nazgul powers is being overplayed just a tad.

[Rían]

I wanted to address the "Melwen effect" today - you beat me to it, Val! I think it needs some parameters, which I would like to discuss with the group and hopefully come to an agreement on. I'm hoping this rpg can go for quite a while longer, but I agree that to do so, the Nazgul must not be as noticable as they are starting to be. I think as Maggie points out, after the talk with the Chancellor, it will be a natural decision for them to do so.

see you guys in a bit!

[Gordis]

Yes, that is a good point - you've semi-convinced me of the possibility, although I do NOT think it would be a simple matter of hopping on and riding off. I imagine there would be torture and fear involved - chasing a single horse into a dead end, beating and terrifying it into shaken and rebellious submission, and a lot of fight on the part of the horse at first, until it is broken down through brutality. Don't you think so?

Sorry, Rian, if I seemed to be snappy. I didn't mean to, that's sure. As you may have noticed, it was my last but one post of the day, and while BB’s time was 20 to 2 AM, my local time was 20 to three. So I simply couldn’t expand my post. I will do it now.

I know full well you are not a simple movie-fan, I know you have read Letters and HOME. The more is the pity, that regarding the nazgul horses, you apparently let PJ's Very Bad Movie lead you astray.
Please check the sources: NOWHERE in Tolkiens works did he speak of HORSE ABUSE by nazgul. It is entirely movie concept. You said yourself that nothing can be gained by beating a horse into obedience. I can’t agree more. Why would a nazgul beat his horse?

Imagine someone coming to a circus and seeing grown-up lions jumping through flames and doing other weird things, completely unnatural for them. One is likely to say: "How they must have been abused and beaten, to achieve such results!" And he will be wrong. No amount of beating and abuse will make a free grown-up lion do these things. The circus lions were most likely born in the circus or in a zoo, used to men from a very young age and taught long and gradually, with more emphasis on rewards, than on punishments.

The own nazgul war-horses were "born and bred in the service of Mordor" (LoTR). That is how I see it: very young ones were slowly and gradually taught to bear the presence of a nazgul, maybe even enjoy it. It was a NECESSARY THING, because a ringless nazgul is ALWAYS frightening for men and animals, whether he wishes it not (the one who spoke with Maggot or with Butterbeer were trying to appear normal men, but failed).

But, above thit basic level of fear, the nazgul were capable of inducing mortal fear on purpose, much higher levels of fear, like the Witch-King at Osgiliath and at the Pelennor. The horse, that the nazgul himself rides, is the closest to the epicentre of this fear-spell. How can a horse bear it? By abuse? Hardly. Perhaps some spells were involved, but surely no beating. I believe, the horses were gradually taught to resist the more and more intense doses of fear spell, projected by the nazgul, and finally the full amount of it. That’s how the Witch-King’s horse remained calm, when all around the battlefield man and beasts alike ran blindly away.
That was about their own regular war-horses.

Now the situation we were discussing. A nazgul, left without a mount in the middle of Rohan, wants a free ride home. No, of course it is NOT "a simple matter of hopping on and riding off". The horse will be as afraid of the nazgul as geese and dogs in the Shire.

But how would a nazgul "chase a single horse into a dead end"? On foot? As you say yourself, nazgul do have limitations. :) One of them is not being able to run as fast as a horse. So the horse should be stopped somehow. How? Like that: "Suddenly he knew in his heart that they were silently commanding him to wait. Then at once fear and hatred awoke in him." And " In any case he felt that he was commanded urgently to halt. Hatred again stirred in him, but he had no longer the strength to refuse" – Frodo, flight to the Ford.

The nazgul could send commands to people (and likely to animals as well) at a distance. So, upon the nazgul mental command, the horse stops. The nazgul mounts. Of course, the horse will be terrified and rebellious and to ride it will necessitate constant mind concentration from the Rider. But why would he beat it? To make it even more fearful? I imagine he will even try to say some soothing words to the terrified animal :D.
Of course, this horse, even if brought to Mordor, will never become the nazgul’s regular war-horse. Perhaps, left alone, it will die of mental strain and long-lasting fear.

That is my take on the matter. I believe it is realistic and follows the canon. I just had to explain it at length, because some of you may think that I believe that all the animals instantly come to love nazgul, or something, like in the tale of Snow-White.
Not at all.

[Rían]

Sorry, Rian, if I seemed to be snappy. I didn't mean to, that's sure. As you may have noticed, it was my last but one post of the day, and while BB’s time was 20 to 2 AM, my local time was 20 to three. OK, thanks - I did feel like you were snapping a bit at what was a sincere, thought-out post, based on my readings, of how a Nazgul would subdue a horse at need, also based on my extensive knowledge of horses. Sorry you had such a late night, and I hope things ease up for you soon! :)

The more is the pity, that regarding the nazgul horses, you apparently let PJ's Very Bad Movie lead you astray. AbsoLUTELY not!! Why do you even say this? The explanation that you give below is not in Tolkien, and neither is mine. They are both best-guess opinions based on canon - NOT the movie.

Please check the sources: NOWHERE in Tolkiens works did he speak of HORSE ABUSE by nazgul. It is entirely movie concept. Where? I don't even remember it. And I certainly wouldn't take any new concept from the movies without thinking about it first.

You said yourself that nothing can be gained by beating a horse into obedience. I can’t agree more. Why would a nazgul beat his horse? I NEVER said that nothing can be gained by beating a horse into submission. On the contrary, quite a lot can be gained, at least temporarily, if you don't care about the horse! Or if you're really up a tree. I myself would definitely "abuse" a horse if it was for a short period that would save a life (a person's life, or the horse's life), or for something other urgent need. I think that a nazgul would beat a horse if he thought it would further his means.

The own nazgul war-horses were "born and bred in the service of Mordor" (LoTR). That is how I see it: very young ones were slowly and gradually taught to bear the presence of a nazgul, maybe even enjoy it. Just like my ideas, this is ENTIRELY speculation (the enjoyment part), based upon your extensive knowledge of Tolkien's writings. :)

I believe, the horses were gradually taught to resist the more and more intense doses of fear spell, projected by the nazgul, and finally the full amount of it. That’s how the Witch-King’s horse remained calm, when all around the battlefield man and beasts alike ran blindly away. I just disagree with your opinion - it's that simple. We both know and love Tolkien, and have our opinions about what is more realistic when he doesn't give specifics.

But how would a nazgul "chase a single horse into a dead end"? On foot? As you say yourself, nazgul do have limitations. :) One of them is not being able to run as fast as a horse. So the horse should be stopped somehow. You don't have to run as fast as a horse to know how to stop them (I know this from first-hand experience). You just have to know horses. I think it is very likely that some of the herds were in valleys that had places where a v. intelligent and desperate person could trap them.

That is my take on the matter. I believe it is realistic and follows the canon. And I believe mine is realistic and follows canon, too. :) I also believe yours is a possibility. I was just a bit upset because you seemed to dismiss my opinion out-of-hand.

I just had to explain it at length, because some of you may think that I believe that all the animals instantly come to love nazgul, or something, like in the tale of Snow-White.
Not at all.Got it :)
Disagree with it :) (your opinions about Nazgul/horse relations)

Let's keep playing! :) You're a great writer with an extensive knowledge of Tolkien.

[Earniel]

Ye gods, THREE discussion threads for a game that hasn't even exeded the 500 posts. You doubled the discussion thread in one night! Spammers! :p

Speaking of men of Gondolin, I've never quite forgiven JRRT for making Tuor's weapon of choice an axe :mad: Just seems so ... dwarven to me - makes me think of the dwarves in "The Hobbit".
That doesn't bother me much. :evil:

... more to the point though ...where is Queen Earniel???

i feel you are all REMISS :p ( ;) ) in not not noticing her absence .... i sincerely hope it is not anything you all know about that i don't? ...

I sincerely hope it has nothing to do with the friendly ( i hope) eagles discussion thing? ... that was never meant in any negative way at all!

Earniel ... where are are you? We (well, i at do any way) miss you ....
Queen?! I think someone is seriously getting ahead of himself. :p

There just hasn't been much to post for her, so I simply wait. Besides, I've been trying to catch up with the LoTR chapter discussion again and I'm a little less than a whole book behind. So much of my moot-time goes in there.

About the horses: I agree with RÃ*an on this one. I just don't see any of the nazgul riding a horse that simply accepts them, much less NOT fears them. I think any horse would have to have its mind broken before it becomes a suitable horse for a nazgul to ride on. I know you identify with your nazgul-characters but remember you're evil. Eeeville. :evil: ;).

Beating if of course another matter, and far less productive to get a horse to obey. I doubt the nazgul would beat a horse since they still need the horse to be in prime condition. But the nazgul have a little more at their disposal than a horse whip.

I also agree with Valandil with the current level of nazgul powers. We talked in the first thread about neither camp getting too powerful, and I think it is wise to bring this discussion up again. You undead lot are very powerful at the moment. You give and take away black breath on a mere thought. You can mess with people's mind enormously and yet freely walk the streets without anyone noticing the leastest bit of trouble. You can get your throat cut and still walk. You can have a whole fight at Orrodel and even the watch doesn't come knocking to keep down the racket. (Although there might be a useful idea, BB ;))

You're so powerful that I frankly wonder why you bother with the stealth. At this point, you can merely whisk Valandil from his cosy bed, take his mind apart for news of the one Ring, dump the young king in a young lady's bed before the night is over and change both their memories so they think they ended up there together after a bit of too much wine. And the nazgul can go their merry way unnoticed, with the information they desired and leaving the young king to deal with the scandal.

Or at this point you can as easily enter the Palace in invisible mode, sift through Valandil's memories for what you want to know while he sleeps - it's not like he even can put up a fight if you can immobilize and mute your own undead brethren at a mere thought. And nobody would be the wiser. There is actually nothing stopping you from doing this.

I don't think the nazgul actions are obvious enough yet to bring the game to the climax before we at least had some lessons. I reckon, as Willow and RÃ*an said, that the nazgul will be more careful after the talking to with the Morgul Lord. But that still leaves the issue of powers to be addressed.

[Gordis]

I liked your post in the Main, Eärniel. Everyone points out to her that she is in love with the King...

Now your Discussion questions (and some of Val's).

First of all, I believe that everyone would be much happier if this thread was shorter, and the main thread longer. But if you believe we have to discuss powers of evil vs. good, let's do that.


About the horses: I agree with RÃ*an on this one. I just don't see any of the nazgul riding a horse that simply accepts them, much less NOT fears them. I think any horse would have to have its mind broken before it becomes a suitable horse for a nazgul to ride on. I know you identify with your nazgul-characters but remember you're evil. Eeeville. :evil: ;).
That was exactly the question posed by Frodo to Gandalf in Rivendell: " Then why do these black horses endure such riders? All other animals are terrified when they draw near, even the elf-horse of Glorfindel. The dogs howl and the geese scream at them.'
`Because these horses are born and bred to the service of the Dark Lord in Mordor. Not all his servants and chattels are wraiths! There are orcs and trolls, there are wargs and werewolves; and there have been and still are many Men, warriors and kings, that walk alive under the Sun, and yet are under his sway. And their number is growing daily.'

Maybe for you "to be in the service of the Dark Lord" implies "having your mind broken". Not so for me. But I am EEEVILLE... :)


Beating if of course another matter, and far less productive to get a horse to obey. I doubt the nazgul would beat a horse since they still need the horse to be in prime condition. But the nazgul have a little more at their disposal than a horse whip. I never said that the nazgul didn't abuse their horses OUT OF KINDNESS. You are quite right about their reasons for not beating the animals. And sure they had other methods in their disposal, mind control primarily.


I also agree with Valandil with the current level of nazgul powers. We talked in the first thread about neither camp getting too powerful, and I think it is wise to bring this discussion up again. You undead lot are very powerful at the moment. You give and take away black breath on a mere thought. You can mess with people's mind enormously and yet freely walk the streets without anyone noticing the leastest bit of trouble. You can have a whole fight at Orrodel and even the watch doesn't come knocking to keep down the racket. (Although there might be a useful idea, BB ;))

- Well, the nazgul can give Black breath very easily, almost automatically. That is canon. I see a clear parallel between Eowyn and Melwen with her frying pan.
As for HEALING black breath, it is NOT canon that the nazgul can do that.
Do you wish it to be changed?

- Messing with people's minds. Canonically nazgul could mess with minds to some extent. To what? Let us discuss it. Please, note, that not a single nazgul in this RPG was able to read thoughts of any of your elven or royal characters. Your shields worked.

- About Melwen. Let CS reply to your question, but I don't think that love and forgetfulness induced in the maid' s mind by Khamul could work permanently. The maid will have to be dealt with.

- "Walk the streets without anyone noticing the least bit of trouble" We have agreed that the nazgul could turn fully visible and appear normal. It was basics of this RPG, though not a canon thing. And Earniel, Mahtaliel and Orethurion felt unease in their presence didn't they?

- Now animal's reaction. Sorry, why would mere animals be more sensitive to the hidden nazgul presence than Elves? Really, why?



"You're so powerful that I frankly wonder why you bother with the stealth. At this point, you can merely whisk Valandil from his cosy bed, take his mind apart for news of the one Ring, dump the young king in a young lady's bed before the night is over and change both their memories so they think they ended up there together after a bit of too much wine. And the nazgul can go their merry way unnoticed, with the information they desired and leaving the young king to deal with the scandal. "
Great Idea! :) ...Joking.

Please, note, the nazgul want THE RING, not the mere information on it. Now the Morgul Lord knows that Val has no ring (judging by Val's reactions when the talk was on the subject + trusting his own ring-detector feelings). So the nazgul still have plenty to do in Tharbad. They want to find the way to get the Ring.
And the nazgul cannot go to Rivendell. Isn't it a limitation?


" Or at this point you can as easily enter the Palace in invisible mode, sift through Valandil's memories for what you want to know while he sleeps - it's not like he even can put up a fight if you can immobilize and mute your own undead brethren at a mere thought. And nobody would be the wiser. There is actually nothing stopping you from doing this."

Taking apart someone's mind is not easy, especially one's of Royal blood and trained to shield it, like Val was. Ilmenzor's mind was taken apart like that, but this required MONTHS of torture and direct confrontation of wills and the use of the full power of the Morgul Lord's ring. And that didn't pass unnoticed, it left Ilmenzor a broken man.
The maid was stunned by Black breath and offered no resistence; neither was her mind shielded.

As "for our undead brethren", they were immobilized by Khamul, using the more powerful Ring. The rings connect nazgul to one another, leaving their minds more open and more susceptible to each other, than to the outsiders. And no minds were broken in the process, no secret thoughts revealed.


I don't think the nazgul actions are obvious enough yet to bring the game to the climax before we at least had some lessons. I reckon, as Willow and RÃ*an said, that the nazgul will be more careful after the talking to with the Morgul Lord. But that still leaves the issue of powers to be addressed.
Yes, I agree.
The nazgul are not without limitations. They fear open fire. Most of them fear water. Some have difficulty even to remain civil to elves. And all are vulnerable to their own kind, as they use the same spells and weapons and are bounded by similar rings. And they are not united. Everyone wants the ring for himself.

As for animals, I agree. The Snow-White aspect of nazgul is strange and inappropriate canon-wise.
But do you REALLY want to ask Lotesse to part with her horse and owl? To take away her beautiful posts? Not to have a horse race with Ray, that I am really looking forward to? Do you REALLY WANT IT ?

The balance of forces.
Yes the nazgul are powerful and well consealed. They seem fair, but feel foul. Yet, they are not all-powerful.

Note, the nazgul make mistakes. That will allow the side of good to act upon them, or simply to start asking questions. I made the Morgul Lord open the front door of Orrodel, though I knew, Mahtaliel was watching. But I figured out that the Morgul Lord himself had no way to know it. Lilly almost screamed at the game. Nobody understood what it really was, but later, if suspicions grow, it might be remembered, right? The fight itself was rather noisy. I don't know why Mahtaliel didn't hear how Lilly wailed. Perhaps she came too late? Why the watch heard nothing, while they fought in Orrodel, is a question to BB and Shah.

Val has not yet discovered the theft of his jewels. Why? Also, he hasn't started to analyze his strange experiences at the Reception. Is it normal for him to react to women it this way?
And the good side has even got a talking sword!

So I don't really see why you believe that the fight of Good and Evil is unequal.

I believe, I answered all Earniel's questions and some of Val's.

As for Val's other points, I would like him to be more specific. I am ready to answer.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

You're right in thinking that Mahtaliel came up to the wall after Lilly's wail. But she did hear Buz's roar later on, so don't think she's gone mysteriously deaf. :p

Personally I'm willing to let Viv's relations to her horse and to Lomi slide since they were established long before we thought to question this and because Viv is the youngest of the Nazgul and seems closer to her humaness than the others.

But now that we've had such a discussion I think animal reactions should be more on the disturbed side of things.

The Nazgul are going to have to be much more careful once classes start, they'll be in close quarters with humans and elves for most of the day so they will be expected to try harder to maintain their disguises.

[Lotesse]

I'm only on for another few minutes, so I don't have the time to outline each & every point Valandil makes that upsets me so, therefore I'll just come out & say it - Val, what is WRONG with you that you say the RPG is or "should be winding down?!" That really upset me, to read that. It sounded like you would actually encourage or prefer that our story go dead - WHY????? :( :mad:

Gordis - thank you so much for your level-headed, calm, well-Tolkien educated, even responses & explanations that you put here. I am always SO thankful that you're in this RPG, for REAL. Thanx 4 sticking up for my animals, too; I definitely appreciate that.

Earniel - awesome new post!! I love snappy dialogue so much, and it was easy to be there at that breakfast and picture the two women talking - great stuff!

Shah - excellent warm-up 2 the Big Race! I have an idea: How about when Viv & Laslech show up to the race, the other horses might be a bit skittish around Viv. NOT terrified, but perhaps a little distracted or nervous, antsy. Because of Viv being a Nazgul. But Laslech isn't nervous since the mare CHOSE to take Viv as her Rider. Anyway. Maybe that'll help appease the animal naysayers.

I have so freakin' much in my head to say here. I wish I had a computer & the time and mental dexterity to outline it all to any of you naysayers and boo-ers who don't seem to want our story to develop. Again, thank you very much, Gordis! Everybody keeps using my sarcastic Snow White thing now, when I said Viv WAS NOT going to turn into a Snow White. She hasn't even hung around with any animals except her owl Lomi and Laslech, and Volcirom bore her that one time but Ray was there, so Volcirom didn't get scared or nervous. Bah. If only I were more eloquent; I hate not being able to articulate when I need to.

[Rían]

Now animal's reaction. Sorry, why would mere animals be more sensitive to the hidden nazgul presence than Elves? Really, why? Why? Because it's total, absolute canon: from LOTR, Frodo speaking, my emphasis
"All other animals are terrified when they draw near, even the elf-horse of Glorfindel. The dogs howl and the geese scream at them."
As I said, I'm more than willing to grant some AU and some gray points, which means that I am willing to grant Viv's horse and owl, among other things, but I do NOT think the general animal reaction, which is scattered consistently all through LOTR, should be entirely dropped, so I will take Lotesse's advice and start writing it in my posts :)

I think what we're all trying to get here with these negotiations is a good rpg :) I hope it lasts for quite awhile!

[Butterbeer]

is Valandil having a "cup half empty day" rather than a "cup half full" day? ... just wondering .. i have those sometimes...

regarding nazgul and animals i was rather under the impression we had this debate some time back and agreed to let it stand, else the rpg would be unplayable: we agreed that the difference allowed here in this Rpg was that WITH the rings and free for the momment from Sauron they could appear to others as normal people ...

...else what have ben doing the last 2/3 months ... mass hallucinations? ... group delusions? :D

this was kinda covered at the start ... if animals were too noticeably upset by the nazgul ... there would be no point in attempting to have an rpg such as this set as it is in Tharbad ... even Constable BB may get a tad curious if everytime say, the languages professor, walks down the street, wild gesse shriek away, cat's hair stands up on ends ... causing fur-ball storms and it starts raining frogs and ..er cats and dogs ... ok bit too far there but you get the point ;)

if even Constable BB of the "watch" notices it is uncanny how the loveable docile watch hound 'sleepydraws' ... who was once rumoured to have opened an eye-lid twice in the same afternoon nap .... suddenly whimpers and hides or growls menacingly ... EVERYTIME one of these certain men and women are near: we would have a problem ... would we not?

I can see some value in wanting to have the naz spend some small effort or thought this way ... but then it just becomes a drag and kind of pointless ...

sine we have begun this way, hundreds of posts in, i see absolutely any point in now trying to argue it's inclusion .... right or wrong i think we are past that stage ...

for my part i think we have some great writers here, everyone is contributing in different ways with characters that are getting deper and deeper ... and there are some incredible posts, not least from valandil : though we knew he could write anyway :) : but Val i too am at a loss why you think it draws to an end when it is just starting ...we have not even had oe class yet ... not that i see the curricular part as a main thing plot wise, merely a conduit for players to interact as part of the wider City ...

now i am in some agreement ref the use and over-use of nazgul powers .. i actually liked the fight scene and wondered where it would ultimately go ... the nazgul in-fighting i think is in-character and entertaining .... but perhaps the Morgul lord should be stronger ion his control regarding actions that relate to secrecy?

The nazgul need not rush ... as someone said they have plenty of time ... and as almost all the nine are now here, they inadvertantly play a little bit of cat and mouse between themselves too: they's all like the ring, even Tol might be tempted ... so, if the Captain has not yet revealed his hand as to his plans for finding either the ring or information on it .... this is not a problem, he can bide his time ... they are free from slavery for the first time in some time: they can enjoy a little bit of "life" almost, and the chancellor can spend his time well: learn about marrow growing etc ...everyone needs a hobby y'know!

from your description, i think, Val, you said we are here in this rpg to find things ..about ourselves, love, life and other vaguely para-phrased thingies ... ;) ... it's the way i research em' :D

so, maybe we do need to strengthen the plot somewhat .. though not make it too straight-jacketed ... and we do need to ensure that the nazgul do not become too powerful ... but as of yet it is not a battle ... and you have the whole kingdom of Arnor to call on and the City of Tharbad,

and ....

and this is as gor - gor you really made me laugh with this - as gor says, as if it evens everything out:

and ...

you have a "talking sword"!!!

well, there we go! it's about even. :D

wow, i wish i had a talking sword! well, of course i do ... but that's a whole other matter ;)

and vals' sword must be (in rpg land) almost to the stage of singing, ala the sound of music be now! :D

ahem, i digress, ...

btw lotesse ... sorry couldn't resist ... but when you coined snow-white that is just such a funny, and powerful spot-on concept .... loved it .. you cannot blame people for wanting to use it!

but i wouldn't worry: like you say, you only have lomi and laslech...

i, for one really like this rpg and the vibrancy of it ... so whilst i agree that both val and Rian have valid points (and earniel too) ... i think it too late and would be too odd now to change the situation with animals ... if elves and kings of the line of elros and numenor cannot sense much beyond a general unease sometimes i think we must bite the bullet and accept animals will not either ...and put that one to bed ...

but i do agree that nazgul powers need to be toned down somewhat and that we could do with a slightly stronger plot lines being developed ....

though i think that will happen naturally ... or creationistically :D

now i know this is an AU ..and we do of course all appreciate this, but as me and earniel recently discussed i think it fair to point out so we are all clear, this is and never has been an excuse for anything goes .... where we can, we try to be within our au world that we are creating, as canon or sensible to our setting and time as we can ... it is in details such as these that make the world come to life as much as anything else ... and both I and Earniel i think are in complete agreement on this ... provided we all are aware of and strive to keep the right balance all should be well ..

sometimes we all just need to talk to each other and be clear: and it is no bad thing for any rpg-er here to voice any concerns on the rpg direction ... but let us try to view this as a "cup half full" positive thing and not go the other way everyone!

best BB

[Lotesse]

Hear, hear!! Thanx 4 that, BB! :)

[Butterbeer]

RIAN and GOR

please, if you wish to argue about nazgul horses there is a thread for it.

I have an unrivalled nose for potential arguments and can sense one before even the participants know it themsleves ... so please you guys either agree to disagree or do it in the rightful thread ... and that thread is not here.

i would also suggest we all do not make unilateral decisions and await a group consensus ... for as you say we are trying to make a better rpg here, nothing more nothing less,

please read my post above! :)

and rian you can consider this the RL Rian version, of a "stern mum look" :D

very best BB :) :) :)

[Rían]

I agree that screaming geese will give too much away, and I'm grudgingly OK with the horse stuff, but I think a just-under-the-radar uneasiness of animals would be a good idea. Does everyone agree? The kind of thing that might eventually be the last straw, after MANY other observations.

... but i do agree that nazgul powers need to be toned down somewhat ... I think quite a few of us agree here, so let's see if we can come to an agreement.

The main thing that I think is totally wrong here, as well as unrealistic, is the "implanting ideas that stick in a person's head" thing, ESPECIALLY if they go against a person's actual inclinations or character. The only being in LOTR that comes NEAR the type of thing that the Nazgul in this rpg are doing is Saruman, and as Tolkien points out in Letters, he does it via persuasion, not via brute force like we have in this rpg.

When I was handed Melwen climbing into bed with Arastud, I didn't think it was an acceptable power for Khamul to have had, but I worked with it - I had it kind of "wear off" as she slowly came to herself. Then I was told I couldn't do that, so I had Arastud just overpower her physically, which obviously he could do.

It just sits so WRONG with me to allow that kind of power. I think Val and Earniel's examples of what our rpg-Nazgul could currently do are 100% accurate, and I don't think it's right canon-wise or good rpg-wise. I mean, why don't they go from town to town, walking down the street and implanting in everyone's minds, "Kill the King, tell us if you see an elven ring, and vote for Sauron!" ;) It just doesn't fly, IMO. Perhaps a temporary control, with varying strength depending on the underlying desire, but at great cost to the Nazgul so they can't do it very often - maybe something like that?

To me, one of the most critical things in Tolkien's work is the concept of free will and the resulting consequences. Tolkien talks about free will in Letters, and mentions that even the Valar "cannot by their own will alter any fundamental provision." And free will is a fundamental provision. Tolkien even says that free will is guaranteed by Iluvatar Himself, and even Iluvatar does not stop consequences (as it appears to our "finite view".)

I'll close my appeal with the words of Finrod to Andreth in the lovely story Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth in Morgoth's Ring (HoME 10) - Finrod is commenting upon something that Andreth says Morgoth did in spite of Iluvatar wanting it another way:

from Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth
"...could the Morgoth do this? No, I say. And for that reason I said that if your tale is true, then all in Arda is vain, from the pinnacle of Oiolossë to the uttermost abyss."

[Rían]

(ps - another type of "mind control" that might be acceptable to use for Melwen - a good, old-fashioned bop on the head resulting in a concussion, and a startled and innocent "what are you TALKING about?" when she remembers anything, if she does!)

[Gordis]

I totally agree with BB's post.

No, I am not going to argue about horses or nazgul in this thread anymore. But please, others, if you wish to discuss what is canon and what is not, please do it in threads in Books forum.
Gor

[Rían]

(ps - why wasn't Zimra, or whatever her name was, there to help at Orrodel?)

[CrazySquirrel]

I see my post about Khamul and maid-disposal made quite a stir.

But, by the way, Valandil was the first to invent this mind thingy – implanting thoughts in other’s minds. Hadn’t Oreturion – a mere man - planted a thought in Marty’s mind? And he needed Marty drunk for that.
Have you all forgotten it?

Why couldn’t Khamul, nazgul and sorceror, do the same? Why such double standards?

And I never intended the maid’s love for Arastud to be ETERNAL!
Who had this idea? As for it being contrary to her nature… WHY? Arastud was very likeable and handsome, she could have loved him quite naturally, she needed little prompting.

Rian, you can change your post about Arastud the way you like it. Let her be surprised, it’s fine with me. The most important thing that he has seen her drunk and getting into his bed.

Actually, if we come to critics, Rian,, I find it funny that you provide a lover for every maid involved, be it a public character or not. For Annawen you invented Arastud, then for Rian this Tyaron, and now Alagos is clearly meant for Earniel. And no problems. Happy End. That is dull, somehow. But maybe it is just me... And will there be fun at Commerce if all the girls involved are firmly engaged?

(ps - why wasn't Zimra, or whatever her name was, there to help at Orrodel?)
Because it was night, and she was sleeping in the far end of the Servant's wing. Look at Gor's map.
And of course the nazgul didn't call the servants to prepare their night drinks - they were in Orrodel in SECRET! We ARE discreet, after all!

[Lotesse]

I see my post about Khamul and maid-disposal made quite a stir.

But, by the way, Valandil was the first to invent this mind thingy – implanting thoughts in other’s minds. Hadn’t Oreturion – a mere man - planted a thought in Marty’s mind? And he needed Marty drunk for that.
Have you all forgotten it?

Why couldn’t Khamul, nazgul and sorceror, do the same? Why such double standards?

Why, indeed? That's right, Val WAS the first to use the mind implant thingy. We didn't get crazy about YOU using it Val; how come you're getting crazy about US doing the same?

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

I think it's good that this mind-cpntrol stuff is being discussed and that any limitations set on it should hold for both 'good' and 'bad' characters.
CS is right in that we should definitely strive to avoid setting double standards.

I see no reason why mind-control with boundaries cannot be used. I originally supported the idea of using mind-control on the maid because it was the best alternative to having the nazgul just kill her. Which would have been far more noticable within the context of the story and which would also have been a waste of a character. I feel that characters take a lot of creative energy to develop, and anything that renders a good character, however minor, useless should be avoided.

I felt that Rian's original handling of Melwen's reaction was perfectly fine. I believe there was no mention of the effects being at all long term or permanant until this:

Originally posted by Gordis Rian nice post about A&A, but Melwen was not SIMPLY drunk, she is now firmly in love with Arastud, as Khamul planted it in her mind deeply, so no throwing up will change that. So her question "What am I doing here?" is a bit strange.

Which I found to be a bit confusing.

[CrazySquirrel]

Well "planted firmly" were my own words, I believe Khamul planted it as firmly as he could, at least enough for the night. Enough for her to make a fool of herself. Nowhere it was said "Eternally". And of course, I believe that throwing up will help to sober her, but not to dispel the spell so early, minutes after it was made. But making her unbutton her bodice was not really necessary, if Rian didn't like it.

[Lotesse]

CS, do you feel up to posting some dialogue with us Nazgul in the living room right now? I love your dialogue style. Right now we're eating sandwiches & drinking whatever each Nazgul prefers (Viv got some midnight snacks together) and I guess we could make some talk while we wait for Gordis to give us our Morgul Lord talking-to. :)

[The last sane person]

Shah - excellent warm-up 2 the Big Race! I have an idea: How about when Viv & Laslech show up to the race, the other horses might be a bit skittish around Viv. NOT terrified, but perhaps a little distracted or nervous, antsy. Because of Viv being a Nazgul. But Laslech isn't nervous since the mare CHOSE to take Viv as her Rider. Anyway. Maybe that'll help appease the animal naysayers.


Slight problem, with that, Volricom has already had Viv on him, and wasnt skittish. Ithilion, I can write that he is skittish.

[CrazySquirrel]

Well if the Elves admit themselves that they have far less nazgul-sensitivity than animals... :p

[The last sane person]

*pounces on Lotesse* You'd better write your own prep for the race, because I highly doubt Viv would be chit chatting with fellow nazgul, until a few minutes before the race...

[Lotesse]

Crazy Squirrel -I like how you had Zimra help her poor cousin Merwen. I think Merwen should definitely stay alive, because she & Zimra can be the presence in Orrodel what Rian used to be - non-Nazguls who can be observers and reactors, and stuff like that. :)

I agree of course, Shah, plus Volcirom didn't seem like the type of horse at all to scare easily anyway. I was just tryna throw these anti-animalists out there some kind of bone. :D Ithilien being skittish is a great idea, though - boy, Marty is gonna be annoyed, huh! :D

[CrazySquirrel]

CS, do you feel up to posting some dialogue with us Nazgul in the living room right now? I love your dialogue style. Right now we're eating sandwiches & drinking whatever each Nazgul prefers (Viv got some midnight snacks together) and I guess we could make some talk while we wait for Gordis to give us our Morgul Lord talking-to. :)
Lotesse, how about taking the nz company not to the living room that has windows onto the street and is right near the Hall and both servant's and front doors - so NOT a place for a secret meeting, but, instead, to Khamul's study on the Second (or third) floor or to a sitting room that might be upstairs? I believe we don't have plans of 2 and 3 floors?

And remember the Chancellor, Udu, etc. were eating at the reception for hours.So perhaps only Penny and Lilly need sandwiches? But we DRINK!!!

I have posted about the maid. We need more witnesses!

Penny must look to my backside. And Udu's. And Ilmenzor to Khamul's neck. Could you post it, Lotesse? Please?
I really am drained and upset. It is so...one-sided. That's how I feel.
I am going to bed, too late. Have nice evening, All.

[Lotesse]

*pounces on Lotesse* You'd better write your own prep for the race, because I highly doubt Viv would be chit chatting with fellow nazgul, until a few minutes before the race...

I know, but isn't it still like 2 in the morning or something at Orrodel? I'm waiting for our Nazgul talking-to to take place, then Viv can go to bed, get up the next morning, have a BATH yes a bath, you guys, Viv isn't scared of baths. Then she can get dressed, and prep Laslech, and head on out to meet up with the guys for the race. Should I write something now? What do I write? I don't know what to write until the Nazgul night gets wrapped up.

[CrazySquirrel]

Oh, yes, please write about Penny healing the two, and the Captain stitching or whatever Khamul and than drinking!!!!

Now I am really off!
CS

[Lotesse]

Lotesse, how about taking the nz company not to the living room that has windows onto the street and is right near the Hall and both servant's and front doors - so NOT a place for a secret meeting, but, instead, to Khamul's study on the Second (or third) floor or to a sitting room that might be upstairs? I believe we don't have plans of 2 and 3 floors?

And remember the Chancellor, Udu, etc. were eating at the reception for hours.So perhaps only Penny and Lilly need sandwiches? But we DRINK!!!

I have posted about the maid. We need more witnesses!

Penny must look to my backside. And Udu's. And Ilmenzor to Khamul's neck. Could you post it, Lotesse? Please?
I really am drained and upset. It is so...one-sided. That's how I feel.
I am going to bed, too late. Have nice evening, All.
Don't be upset, Crazy Squirrel! Here, I made you a nice Blueberry Tea - it's a fantastic comfort-booze drink made with VSOP remy martin, grand marnier and amaretto in a snifter. Yes, I'll go back & alter that 4 U. :) And I'll try and find us a new pic for the secret Orrodel House "situation room". :)

[The last sane person]

Well, she will only have about 3 hours of sleep, if she wants to be able to shower and prep herself and Laslech. This is a race, not a tea party! These two men mean business! And Marty will be only slightly annoyed, he knows what he is doing.

[Rían]

...I believe there was no mention of the effects being at all long term or permanant until this: Yes, that's what I was referring to.

I think it's good that this mind-cpntrol stuff is being discussed and that any limitations set on it should hold for both 'good' and 'bad' characters.
CS is right in that we should definitely strive to avoid setting double standards.

I see no reason why mind-control with boundaries cannot be used. I can agree with all this. What does everyone else think?


I'm sorry to see some of the comments I'm seeing here now, because they are personal criticisms, not criticisms of the game elements :( I didn't invent Arastud with Annawen in mind. I eventually brought them together because I always liked the Faramir/Eowyn thing, and thought it would be fun to give a tribute to JRRT's writing (I was bringing in references to Harry Potter, too). I thought you guys might get a kick out of my quoting JRRT exactly in my post.

And about "critics" - I think we should keep the discussion to criticizing and discussing game elements, NOT people. Although I like the vast majority of the posts here, I've found a few themes by some posters repeatedly and intensely boring, but I don't see any profit in actually naming the person whose posts I find boring and telling them that.

Personally, I don't see why Zimra wouldn't help even if it's at night. :confused: What is there to be discreet about? After all, it's their house, and she's their servant.

[Lotesse]

Well, it's a HUGE house, and it's like 2 in the morning or something, and she hasn't been asked for - purposely, because us Nazgul have a vested interst tonight in remaining out of sight, out of mind and out of notice of anyone like maids. Merwen was quite enough for one night!! :D So, it's O.K. for Zimra to take care of her cousin and sleep, whilst the Nazgul privately eat drink & talk in the secret study... BTW you guys - CS? I made the alterations & additions you were asking about, to my last post. :) It is post #428, on pg. 22

[Rían]

Eärniel - I'm going to change plans. I've contacted TD about Khamul firing Rian at Orrodel, but our characters are kind of stuck until the Nazgul finish up their discussion, and I don't want to make them feel rushed. Do you want to write the scene where they go to Eärniel's friends' house now? We can write the firing later when the Nazgul are finished with their discussion. I'll write a transition scene now.

EDIT - wait, how do I do that? Our characters are at morning, but the people at Orrodel are still at around 2 or 3, I think. Should we just wait, or is it OK to write at slightly different time periods?

[CrazySquirrel]

I'm sorry to see some of the comments I'm seeing here now, because they are personal criticisms, not criticisms of the game elements :( I didn't invent Arastud with Annawen in mind. I eventually brought them together because I always liked the Faramir/Eowyn thing, and thought it would be fun to give a tribute to JRRT's writing (I was bringing in references to Harry Potter, too). I thought you guys might get a kick out of my quoting JRRT exactly in my post.

And about "critics" - I think we should keep the discussion to criticizing and discussing game elements, NOT people. Although I like the vast majority of the posts here, I've found a few themes by some posters repeatedly and intensely boring, but I don't see any profit in actually naming the person whose posts I find boring and telling them that.
Annawen, Arastud and Lilly and rpg-Rian are GAME ELEMENTS, or GAME CHARACTERS, not people. Nobody said that your writing was boring. But the plotlines with every maid getting her very own beau are elements of the game, nothing else.
As for not inventing Arastud with Annawen in mind please see this post here:
#847 First discussion thread

[Earniel]

Hm, a lot to answer...

- Well, the nazgul can give Black breath very easily, almost automatically. That is canon. I see a clear parallel between Eowyn and Melwen with her frying pan.
As for HEALING black breath, it is NOT canon that the nazgul can do that.
Do you wish it to be changed?
I don't need it to be changed. But I do think it goes a little too easy. After all, when you stab somebody it doesn't mean you can take the stab wound away like that either. Nazgul have of course more abilities than normal humans, which I realise and accept, but I don't really think healing is the nazgul's forte.

For the record, I don't believe in extensive edits since I consider the chances of anyone reading it (after the game is played) to be slim, and I don't think editting the game should require more effort than the initial game writing.

But I do want it to be considered in the future that these things shouldn't come so easily. Look, my problem doesn't lie so much with the seperate abilities of the nazgul but more with the whole: as a whole you got a large number of powers with far less limitations and flaws. And the limitations IMO don't balance up with the extent of AU abilities that you have shown so far.

Great Idea! :)...Joking.
Oops! When will I learn to keep my mouth shut... :o

Messing with people's minds. Canonically nazgul could mess with minds to some extent. To what? Let us discuss it. Please, note, that not a single nazgul in this RPG was able to read thoughts of any of your elven or royal characters. Your shields worked.
I don't mind the reading part over much. As far as I'm concerned you can pick up some intentions and thoughts from Eärniel whether she wants it or not. Some things can be easily picked up by a perceptive person. And she's not going to walk around daily with a titanium shield up. Personally I'm not very fond of the mind tricks so I intend to avoid them as much as I can.

My problem rests more with the interfering and changing part. Such as Melwen. You say now that the implanted idea will not be permanently. Which is indeed better IMO, but that wasn't evident from the posts in the game or discussion thread until now. So it's understandable we ask about it.

I'll admit I had forgotten about Oreturion's implanting of a thought in Marty's mind. I suppose it slipped under my radar because it seemed more like a suggestion, and something that wasn't contrary to his character. But the fact that it is brought up underlines, I suppose, the need for setting limits for all players.

- Now animal's reaction. Sorry, why would mere animals be more sensitive to the hidden nazgul presence than Elves? Really, why?
You made for the beginning on clear that we couldn't play any calaquendi elves in the game and that those were the only ones to be able to see through the disguise of the nazgul. We all accepted that. Now we're just trying to ply canon to the rules set in this game.

What I'm trying to say is: It's not like all birds must suddenly make a detour around the nagzul or have all horses bolting. But I think that occasionally mentioning a goose that starts crying or a dog that starts whining only adds to the fearful image of the nazgul. It doesn't even have to be obvious and it doesn't have to be happening all the time. But at least some negative reaction from the animals might just add that little bit of creepiness. It's not like when a goose starts crying that every one is going to cry 'Nazgul! Run for the hills!'

And the nazgul cannot go to Rivendell. Isn't it a limitation?
It is indeed a reasonable limitation, but since our game doesn't take place even near there, it hardly has impact on the game.

Taking apart someone's mind is not easy, especially one's of Royal blood and trained to shield it, like Val was. Ilmenzor's mind was taken apart like that, but this required MONTHS of torture and direct confrontation of wills and the use of the full power of the Morgul Lord's ring. And that didn't pass unnoticed, it left Ilmenzor a broken man.
I'm glad you say that, but so far that has not been evident from the game. Maybe this is just me or some of the non-nazgul players misinterpreting, but when you read the game thread, aside from what the poster's intentions were, the nazgul come across as as powerful as maiar would be and nigh invincible.

As "for our undead brethren", they were immobilized by Khamul, using the more powerful Ring. The rings connect nazgul to one another, leaving their minds more open and more susceptible to each other, than to the outsiders. And no minds were broken in the process, no secret thoughts revealed.
So basically what you're saying is that he's only able to do that to nazgul as the rings are connected?

Some have difficulty even to remain civil to elves.
Even the MM's have difficulty being civil to Elves. No biggie there. :p ;)

But do you REALLY want to ask Lotesse to part with her horse and owl? To take away her beautiful posts? Not to have a horse race with Ray, that I am really looking forward to? Do you REALLY WANT IT ?
Hooo, that'ss tricksy, preciouss, trying to appeal to my emotions and trying to make me feel bad for even saying anything about her horse. But no, as I said I don't see the use of extensive editting and removing of posts once we're past that part.

This game is meant to be fun, not to stifle all creativity. But for this game to be fun for everyone, there must be some balance. Lotesse can hang on to her horse and owl as far as I am concerned, if they are the exeption rather than the rule. Laslech's situation is already too far advanced to go turning it around now any way.

What i'm trying to explain is, that if now animals even go out seeking the nazgul, it's completely the opposite of what nazgul normally represent. I don't mind going AU on some parts in this game, but I don't think we have to overdo it. So no, I'm not saying this or that has to be changed immediatly. But I think it is no more than fair to ask to tone it down a little in the future.

But as I said it is the combination of extensive nazgul powers that I disagree with. So far I think the limitations are too few for the range of abilities. Normal people can fear fire and water too. But then normal people also tend to die when they get their throat cut... ;)

And the good side has even got a talking sword!
Which isn't necesarily a benefit. :p (Note to self: Must read less Pratchett...)

[Rían]

Saying a person's plotline is dull is not saying a person's writing is dull?

I don't see how that compares to discussing game elements in order to set game rules, which is what we're doing here.

I guess I remembered wrong about Arastud - interesting that you found the post.

[Serenoli]

Seems like I missed a huge debate...

I agree that the Nazgul seem too powerful. I didn't notice it myself much, but now its been pointed out, and I've read both sides of the story, I agree. I also think there shouldn't be too much in the way of animal reactions, but a little bit for atmosphere may not be so bad.

It seems most of us are in agreement that there should now be some limitations set on the power available to both sides. Can we discuss that, then? It would be nice if someone well versed in canon would set down a few laws, and we could then agree or disagree on them? It would help a lot if I knew exactly what is acceptable, and what is not.

And is no one is doing the scene before the Chancellor's leecture to all Nazgul, I'll do it, so both Lotesse and CS can rest a little. I am however very likely to make mistakes, as has been demonstrated before :o , so someone tell me where I go wrong.

[Rían]

(edit - worded more accurately in next post)

[Lotesse]

Hi, Serenoli! If you will, don't forget to look at my revised post #428, O.K.? Because I changed it a little bit... :)

[Rían]

We've heard some ideas from the non-Nazgul characters - could we please have some suggestions from the Nazgul characters for suggested limitations? :)

[Lotesse]

Well, doesn't the Calling All Nazgul Info thread pretty much cover it? Plus I'd like to add that if a particular, unique animal so CHOOSES that animal can actually like a nazgul, yet this would be a pretty rare phenomenon (except for wolves and birds of prey) but not an impossible phenomenon.

I propose that Nazguls can read minds to varying degrees depending on length of practice and education about it, even though I also find mind-reading w/out permission to be low-class but Nazgul are supPOSED to be evil. Khamul and the Morgul Lord especially. If the King's men who are just mortal MEN are allowed to read whatever mind strikes their fancy, how is a NAZGUL going to be deprived of such skills? It does NOT make sense.
also I propose they can definitely plant suggestions and mental commands. Like when they did to Frodo at the Ford that time.

And they can heal wounds that they themselves have inflicted, be it knife or sword wounds or Black Despair or whatever.

Udu - liked your post! I like how iritated with everyone Udu is; it really fits perfectly. Now we need Gordis to lead the talk, and I'll fall in where appropriate after the discussion's underway.

The Secret Study- I'm still hunting for good pix for our secret study; this can be one corner of it.
http://www.proni.gov.uk/records/private/picts/pict0514.jpg

[The last sane person]

Meh!! I ****ing lost the god damn race post!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO......OO OOOOOOOOOOO.....Ect. Arg!!!!!!!

[Lotesse]

Oh my god that SUX so so bad. :( That's awful. Maybe if you click "back" you can still find it?

[The last sane person]

I tried! ****!!!!

[Udukhaturz]

We've heard some ideas from the non-Nazgul characters - could we please have some suggestions from the Nazgul characters for suggested limitations? :)

Rian, it is rather difficult in the midst of a game to come up with limitations. I have participated in other games that did not start out with rules. What befell them were constant argumentation and disputations among the players. It was decided that the players would set up a standard of rules and a committee was agreed upon to do this. The committee spent months arguing among themselves as to what should be the best rules. Finally, after two years of no game, those remaining participants decided to call a halt since there were no rules.

I have found that the games that are the most successful are run by one or two people called gamemasters. They set the rules, they publish the rules, make the maps, do all the necessary things to make the game orderly, but they are total dictators. MERP and other games are played this way.

Personally, I have no objections whatsoever to having flocks of geese waddling away, squawking in fear; dogs barking and running with their tails between their legs; the cows becoming so frightened that they can no longer give milk; flocks of sheep and goats bolting panic-stricken and running across the field; herds of horses neighing and running in fear away when Udu rides by. My horse can hate me and I will probably hate him too and not be at all adverse to whacking him across the head with a riding bat.

All the corpses in the ceremetary of Tharbad can be possessed by fell spirits and walk abroad on moonless nights, terrifying people at random but if possible, sacrificing someone to Melkor. The peasants can even rise up in hatred and rush upon my place of abode, screaming, determined to kill me, brandishing pitchforks, shovels, mattocks, axes, swords, and perhaps even one with a wooden stake and hammer in his hand. The Constable can go by at night and listen to the dogs howling, knowing instantly where the drunken professor is wandering. They can chase me, fleeing across the countryside, riding the horse that despises me and would kill me if it could. I will enjoy the chase and pursuit, just so the "STORY IS GOOD." That is all I ask.

There is something strange going on in Tharbad... What dark evil is abroad upon its streets? Stay tuned until next week. :D

Happy Belated Halloween, Everyone. :D

[Lotesse]

:D That was a killer post just now, Udu! :D Yes, the bottom line is - The Story.

[The last sane person]

*snerk* Hehehe....Yeah, this power of the nazgul thing is starting to be a bit of a pain to argue about...

[Rían]

Rian, it is rather difficult in the midst of a game to come up with limitations. I know I'm the only non-Nazgul person on now, and that's why you quoted my post, but please remember that there's a group of us requesting this discussion. I'm not even the one that first brought it up!

If we are not allowing discussion, then rpg-Rian shall soon show some interesting characteristics ... :evil:

CS - I'm sorry you find my storylines dull. I think it's fun that we're all different. I imagine the ones that I find dull, you like the best! :D

[The last sane person]

Hmm....you think Rian and her friends would go to a nice pub to dance and stuff? Cause that would be a nice place to have them interact with Marty and Ray, maybe the next day or so...or later that night. Seeing as we havent really interacted that much.

[Rían]

Sure, Sane, that sounds fun!! I'd like that. I had to get some mega-posts out of the way to establish 2 new characters, and now I'm diving back into the interaction with others, which I"m looking forward to. I wanted to have Khamul and Rian decide about her employment (I can guess how Khamul might go! :D ) but need to wait for the Nazgul discussion to finish up, so the 4 elves are going to head over to Earniel's friend's house now instead, as she wanted to post something about that. Then I suppose we have to go to classes, which will be fun :) then let's hit the pubs!!

Sorry about your post, Sane - MAJOR :( :(

[Serenoli]

I spent twenty minutes laboring over a post where Tolvadok asks why the Nazgul were all here, I hit the post button, and find Udu beat me to it! :( And when I try editing, my internet connection decides to suddenly and mysteriously act up!

Anyway its edited, but now the two posts may seem a little repititive. I'm so sorry for that. :o

Either way, its upto Gordis now, I think, to continue.

[Lotesse]

Serenoli, liked your last post! Now we wait 4 Gordis; we need our Ilmenzor to break it down to us Nazgul! :)

[Serenoli]

And thank you for the sandwiches... Tolvadok appreciates!

[Rían]

geez, what's with the lost posts tonight? Bummer!


Eärniel - your go; I got them headed to your place.

[The last sane person]

*snerk* I tell you! Its the work of our Tartan McBeastie!

[Lotesse]

So, we have 2 time periods happening right now - the next morning already in progress w/ Earniel & Rian, and the evening still being wrapped up with CS, TD, Gordis, Serenoli, Udu, and me. Shouldn't we coordinate time-periods or is it O.K. with everyone to go back & forth in time like this? The reason why I'm waiting to do the race is because first Viv has to finish with the Nazgul night conversation, so she can then go 2 bed and get up early in the morning.

Wouldn't an Orrodel House greenhouse be cool, you guys? I was looking at pics of houses and ran across these gfreenhouses, and it looked fun. Anyway.

[The last sane person]

Yep, we are all at different stages of the next day and previous night...its kinda like there are several time warps in progress all over Tharbad.

[Lotesse]

I know and it's way annoying. How can characters interact with one another if everyone's writing at different times of the day or night? It just becomes a single-person writing project if it's done like that, you know?

[The last sane person]

Yep, but we have to ask those that are already well into the morning (RIAN) not to post anything until the rest of us are caught up. MEANING, the nazgul have their little power confrence, the trio have their horse race, and Val...Well, for Val to show up.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Evil time warps... *tries to banish Rocky Horror mental images*

I was wondering what time it was in the story... Our poor characters are gonna get no sleep whatsoever at this rate. ;)

I think I'll refrain from posting on the story thread till everyone's caught up to the morning hours.

[Rían]

Yep, but we have to ask those that are already well into the morning (RIAN) not to post anything until the rest of us are caught up. MEANING, the nazgul have their little power confrence, the trio have their horse race, and Val...Well, for Val to show up.All right.

I asked for advice on this, and no one answered, so I just went ahead and posted, but I'll erase the post now since you guys have requested that I wait.

Earniel and I shouldn't have to wait for the horse race, tho, since it's at dawn; right? So we'll start posting when the Nazgul conference is over.

It's hard to coordinate times! I was posting 2 long posts a day because I had so much to get in before I thought the Nazgul conference would be over, but I guess I'll just have to wait now. Maybe I'll invent a love story for Arabud :evil: and another one for each of Arastud's 5 other siblings ... :evil: (kidding!) Maybe I'll just post some backstory stuff.

[Rían]

ok, I edited my last post, and now Rian, Earniel & co. are at the same point in time as Ray is (the race is at dawn, right? and that's the time that Ray is at now).

[Udukhaturz]

Shouldn't we coordinate time-periods or is it O.K. with everyone to go back & forth in time like this?

Lotesse and all, for my part, going back and forth in time is fine. In other games that I have participated, there is not this rapid pace. There might be days between posts. I have seen time differences handled this way:

Tharbad, TA 49
Orrodel
September 17, 10 AM

That is a method, however, used in slower games, and it might not work here.

[Butterbeer]

yes, UDU i concur, with the pace and number of players, it is best we do not get too far ahead.

also as UDU says there is a slippery slope when we start to argue too much ..discussion is good and needed on some points here, his 2 year council of arguments point is a good one to consider ... personally i prefer playing without a GM and like it how it is, but we should work together to smoothly build in henceforth the balance we all seek ...

let what stands, stand but let us move forward with some clearer guidelines, that are not set in stone but are there for guidance ... and for balance ...

best comment so far: Lotesse: Yes, the bottom line is - The Story.

thats the bottom line here in a nutshell!

some time differences are naturally going to occur and are fine, but we do not want them to skew too much or happen too often.

thanks, Rian, for being so reasonable. ..after all we all have at times had to wait sometimes for a week or more to post ... and lotesse patiently waited ages at least twice.

also Rian and CS ... to me it was very clear that CS said clearly she very much likes your writing, and it is very hard not to agree with her, because the writing has been great ... i think she just said she was not so concerned about the servant's love stories so much .. ok that is fine comment but NOT (as i read it) in any way a criticism of your writing .. we all have stuff we like more than other bits in terms of rpg development ...

so can you guys knock this on the head please?

CS your note about it being one-sided was lost on me: i did not quite know how you meant that, one way or another, sorry ... and don't be upset! :) ... just whistle .. always look on the bright side of life ... wew- we-eew, to-dode doody do ... ;)

but one thing i would like to say, please guys we are not taking sides here: there may be a good v evil thing brewing plot wise, of course!, but please seperate that from your characters and yourselves discussing the rpg! :)

the bottom line here is the story and enjoying rpg-ing together

with regards to the nazgul powers, there appears a difference between merely reading the RPG to knowing what is thought here in the discussion thread ... so that to me is fair point .. i think the main concern is not what has happened so far ... we can all live with that largely i suspect ( and i enjoyed it too to boot! :) ) ...

but a genuine concern that i share is: what might then happen later, as powers once accepted now grow and grow .... now no one may actually intend that but it is normally how these things go ...

thus i have no problem with this being brought up: of course should the nazgul be discovered and it comes to fight, there are enough there now after the battle on the slopes of Orodruin that will know all they will need to do to fight the nazgul (if/when it comes to it) is cut their ring hand or finger off: thus with the combined forces of Arnor and tharbad around, this evens things a fair bit, IMHO

there are eight very vulnerable nazgul amidst enemies .. thus all the concerns over secrecy, no matter how individually skilled they are ...

so lets all look at the bigger picture ... the odd post for realism perhaps in the rpg about some occasional animal unease ... but for story and contnuity sake we have no choice now but to carry on as we started out ...

and nazgul being careful not to make themselves TOO powerful

and perhaps the Elves and Arnor mob ( :D ) ... love that word ... developing a few skills too, in moderation of course :p

best all :)
BB

[Gordis]

Lotesse and all, for my part, going back and forth in time is fine. In other games that I have participated, there is not this rapid pace. There might be days between posts. I have seen time differences handled this way:

Tharbad, TA 49
Orrodel
September 17, 10 AM

That is a method, however, used in slower games, and it might not work here.

I think it is a VERY GOOD idea. We already had some posts about morning activities, then some about the night activities. I believe it is perfectly OK, but still it is difficult to sort out. Please, everyone, try to put time and place in the headline of your posts. If you have time, it will be great to return somewhat back and insert time in the after-reception posts. OK?

Rian, I believe the second stableboy was NOT climbing the facade of the house? That would give the watch a lot to think on. :eek: We have FINALLY agreed that Lilly's bodoir and the Master bedroom faced the street. So how could Arabud see light on the side of the house facing the court? Hear noises, yes, but light?

[Gordis]

All

I have questions that I wish to put to VOTE.

1. Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to DELETE FOREVER ALL MEMORIES OF THE NIGHT from Melwen's mind?

2.Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to heal the effects of Black Breath ENTIRELY?

3. Can others (e.g. Oreturion) tamper with her brain and make her remember the night?

I need only yes or no, for the three questions.

[Serenoli]

1. No
2. No
3. Not sure. Do you mean, Can others tamper with her brain and make her remember? In that case, yes. Also, I say yes to the first two questions if the effects are only temporary.

And Gordis, you're going to have to do some explaining as the Morgul-Lord, but as that involves some plot, I just wanted to know if you worked out a solution yet. I mean, I'm as puzzled as Tolvadok, really. Why did the butterfly call them? Does the Morgul Lord know? Or will Boomerang fly in (which he can't do, given the heavily draped room) and do some explaining? :confused:

[Gordis]

1. No
2. No
3. Not sure. Do you mean, Can others tamper with her brain and make her remember? In that case, yes. Also, I say yes to the first two questions if the effects are only temporary.

Thank you for the answer, Serenoli. I reworded the 3-d question as you suggested. :)
Wait for my PM.

[Rían]

1. Udu - Good input re posting time and place info for others! You've had some good input for us based on your experience. That's probably a good idea to do, given the complexity of times and places and people here. Is that OK with everyone?

2. BB - good post, and you've expressed some things that I'm concerned about - the kind of "but what will this kind of stuff lead to down the road?" concern. I remember thinking when the first thought-plant came up (was it really Val? I don't remember) something like, "Well, this is odd, but whatever...", because it wasn't about something important. Then it started appearing more, and about more important stuff, and I got concerned about just how far it was going to go. Then the Melwen incident just seemed like it was getting out of control. I agree - there's not sides here - but there are at least 5 people with major characters that have a concern and wish to get some type of limits set, and are asking for discussion. I totally agree that story and enjoyment are the top goals.

Gordis - I left the exact spot that Arabud started his climb purposefully vague, given my poor map skills - it was something like "a likely-looking spot". Since I wrote that he could see the lights, then it was obviously a spot where he could see the lights.
Good questions - that's the type of specific things I've been wanting to get straight - I'll think on them and get back to you.

[Valandil]

Well - over THREE pages since I posted about this time yesterday. It's hard to keep up again, and hard to answer all the questions asked of me - and I'm behind in my reading once more.

It was Game Post #247 where Oreturion planted a suggestion to Marty - it was basically that he address the beautiful young (so he thought) lady whom he was admiring. He did so by speaking to her and taking her hand to kiss it. If one does these things, I would imagine that encouraging someone to do what they would like to do anyway would be easiest of all.

In Post #405, Khamul cures Melwen, wipes from her mind all memory of the past several hours (or was it days?), gets her drunk and firmly implants an image of Arastud in her mind, along with a good measure of lust - where she did not have this desire before. (EDIT: all while keeping three other very powerful creatures secured with invisible bonds)

CS - I don't see how it's a 'double-standard' for me to see the second as going significantly further than the first.

Lotesse - I was expressing some built-up frustration. As I said, some if it had to do with the highly increased power level of the Nazgul - and the way it affects game balance, especially with lack of limitations. Earniel brought up the corollary that I didn't mention - that you guys could just do as you would and take what you wanted, the way you were making things seem. Do I WANT the game to come to an end? Not necessarily. But if things would continue down that road, it would be hard for me to maintain my interest or desire to play.

Also - I had hoped we could protract some 'suspense' in the mind of the Nazgul characters about whether Valandil had the One Ring - but as I said - that seems to be out of the bag, perhaps.

And... goodness, everyone else besides me is pairing off! :p And my two best friends want to date Nazgulettes - and that may be what I'm headed for as well! :eek:

I agree with Earniel that we not make changes to what has been done already - either that or they be minimal and agreed on by consensus.

Butterbeer - maybe it was a half-empty day.

ALL - frankly, there's something else that bugs me some, and the storyline with Melwen comes into that too. We're probably playing some of the game a bit too close with the 'PG-13' limitations of Entmoot. And - even if we can make an argument that we have not crossed that line - I personally would just as soon keep well short of it. I just don't see the need to go too far into descriptions of intimacy between characters. Maybe some flirting and teasing and innuendo can be fun - but I'd just as soon not put my time in here if we're going to be taking things further than that. For THIS, I probably have the lion's share of blame to take myself (as a King should always get the lion's share! :p ), by pulling my first 'sword trick' - so here, before I could point my finger at anyone else, I certainly have four pointed back at myself (well... three - I'm not really sure what my thumb is doing). So - that's been bugging me a little too. As a father of three boys, I'm would rather we keep within what I think should be acceptable for younger people - and what I would be comfortable with my sons reading once they reached 12 or 13.

What do the rest of you think? Can we tone down the really 'hot and heavy' stuff?

Meanwhile, no time to post in the game thread once more. :( I have one or two planned for the wee hours of the morning - just before dawn maybe, or shortly after.

Say - do classes start today... Monday?

Gordis - I wondered if the Chancellor would really WANT to let Udu take some time off to get acquainted with the town. Or if he would assign Udu to jump right into teaching right away to keep him out of trouble. :evil:

[Rían]

I have to get off line now, but quickly, I don't see why the Nazgul would know pretty much for sure that Val doesn't have the One Ring. I think it's a good plot line to keep, and a very reasonable one, too. I'd say just have Val make some comments about it that can be taken several ways. There is NO reason that I can see for the Nazgul to have concluded that he doesn't have it, unless I missed something :confused:

I've probably gone overboard with the innuendo - it is funny! - but will back off now.

[Rían]

(ps - Rian isn't paired with Tyaron yet - she's going to have second thoughts when she gets around humans again. And I don't know what Earniel is going to do with any attention Alagos may pay her, or what level of attention he may pay her. Don't order the wedding cake yet!)

[Valandil]

Oh - one more thing on the mental powers.

Perhaps I was the first one to make use of them in the game itself - but the intro already had spelled out that the Nazgul had some pretty extensive mind powers.

It was in response to this that I developed a character who was first conceived as just an advisor - and someone sent by the queen mother to keep the young king out of trouble - into what became Oreturion. I did it because I felt like Valandil would need some support like this if he was going to survive the powers that had already been described for the Nazgul.

Oreturion, though not of royal bloodlines - could be thought of as someone like Denethor - one in whom the race of Numenor ran nearly true (or however Tolkien states it - and remember how 'sparks flew' between him and Gandalf the one time?). I think Oreturion's abilities would be exemplary among men - he was probably, at this time, the most powerful in this area among mortal Men - since Elendil, Isildur and Anarion were no more and Valandil had not quite surpassed him yet.

[Gordis]

Well - over THREE pages since I posted about this time yesterday. It's hard to keep up again, and hard to answer all the questions asked of me - and I'm behind in my reading once more.

It was Game Post #247 where Oreturion planted a suggestion to Marty - it was basically that he address the beautiful young (so he thought) lady whom he was admiring. He did so by speaking to her and taking her hand to kiss it. If one does these things, I would imagine that encouraging someone to do what they would like to do anyway would be easiest of all.

In Post #405, Khamul cures Melwen, wipes from her mind all memory of the past several hours (or was it days?), gets her drunk and firmly implants an image of Arastud in her mind, along with a good measure of lust - where she did not have this desire before. (EDIT: all while keeping three other very powerful creatures secured with invisible bonds)

CS - I don't see how it's a 'double-standard' for me to see the second as going significantly further than the first.

Lotesse - I was expressing some built-up frustration. As I said, some if it had to do with the highly increased power level of the Nazgul - and the way it affects game balance, especially with lack of limitations. Earniel brought up the corollary that I didn't mention - that you guys could just do as you would and take what you wanted, the way you were making things seem. Do I WANT the game to come to an end? Not necessarily. But if things would continue down that road, it would be hard for me to maintain my interest or desire to play.

Also - I had hoped we could protract some 'suspense' in the mind of the Nazgul characters about whether Valandil had the One Ring - but as I said - that seems to be out of the bag, perhaps.

And... goodness, everyone else besides me is pairing off! :p And my two best friends want to date Nazgulettes - and that may be what I'm headed for as well! :eek:

I agree with Earniel that we not make changes to what has been done already - either that or they be minimal and agreed on by consensus.

Butterbeer - maybe it was a half-empty day.

ALL - frankly, there's something else that bugs me some, and the storyline with Melwen comes into that too. We're probably playing some of the game a bit too close with the 'PG-13' limitations of Entmoot. And - even if we can make an argument that we have not crossed that line - I personally would just as soon keep well short of it. I just don't see the need to go too far into descriptions of intimacy between characters. Maybe some flirting and teasing and innuendo can be fun - but I'd just as soon not put my time in here if we're going to be taking things further than that. For THIS, I probably have the lion's share of blame to take myself (as a King should always get the lion's share! :p ), by pulling my first 'sword trick' - so here, before I could point my finger at anyone else, I certainly have four pointed back at myself (well... three - I'm not really sure what my thumb is doing). So - that's been bugging me a little too. As a father of three boys, I'm would rather we keep within what I think should be acceptable for younger people - and what I would be comfortable with my sons reading once they reached 12 or 13.

What do the rest of you think? Can we tone down the really 'hot and heavy' stuff?

Meanwhile, no time to post in the game thread once more. :( I have one or two planned for the wee hours of the morning - just before dawn maybe, or shortly after.

Say - do classes start today... Monday?

Gordis - I wondered if the Chancellor would really WANT to let Udu take some time off to get acquainted with the town. Or if he would assign Udu to jump right into teaching right away to keep him out of trouble. :evil:
Strange post, Val. First you express your frustration with just about everything, then ask a minor question about Udu. I will do as you suggest.:)

I gather your replies to my questionnaire are no, no and yes?

What is really wrong with you, Val? Yes, the King's position is precarious. But more is the fun. Can't you just think of some counter-plots and counter-measures?

[CrazySquirrel]

All

I have questions that I wish to put to VOTE.

1. Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to DELETE FOREVER ALL MEMORIES OF THE NIGHT from Melwen's mind?

2.Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to heal the effects of Black Breath ENTIRELY?

3. Can others (e.g. Oreturion) tamper with her brain and make her remember the night?

I need only yes or no, for the three questions.
1.no
2.yes
3. probably, yes.

So, the maid is still dangerous for us. She should be dealt with.

[CrazySquirrel]

I think Val's main problem is that in this RPG layout he is left practically alone without supporters. He can take counsil only with himself. He plays his main counselors himself. Shah plays Ray and Marty, but practically Ray is so besotted with Viv, that he has no time or concern for his King. Marty has other interests now. Rian is completely absorbed in her family-love life. Earniel is the only one to whom he might turn, but it seems she herself is getting otherwise attracted. Even Annawen has forsaken the King.

(Speaking of that what fun will there be now in Commerce class?)

I believe the game would be much more attractive to Val if he had someone to plot with, another player, not another of his characters. We need another player for the Good side. Perhaps his mother might come to check on him? Whatever.

What do you think about it, Val?

[Rían]

Rian has been "completely absorbed in her family love-life" for ONE NIGHT (albeit a lot of posts!) and is looking forward VERY MUCH to starting classes in the morning, and I somehow have a VERY strong feeling she'll be in a study group with Val and Earniel and some others.

I can't WAIT for Commerce to start! I think it will be a blast!!!!

[The last sane person]

I think Val's main problem is that in this RPG layout he is left practically alone without supporters. He can take counsil only with himself. He plays his main counselors himself. Shah plays Ray and Marty, but practically Ray is so besotted with Viv, that he has no time or concern for his King. Marty has other interests now. Rian is completely absorbed in her family-love life. Earniel is the only one to whom he might turn, but it seems she herself is getting otherwise attracted. Even Annawen has forsaken the King.



Now now, thats not true. Ray and Marty are loyal to their king, and indeed DO have time, when classes start, I intend to have far more interaction, but seeing as Val has been rather busy himself as of late (rochdol planning, feasts, being besotted by Aiwendis, ect) Once classes start, I will have those two sober up.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

I believe the game would be much more attractive to Val if he had someone to plot with, another player, not another of his characters. We need another player for the Good side.

*Waves hand in air* That'd be why I joined with a character custom made for plotlyness! :rolleyes:

[Rían]

OK, here's my answers to Gordis' three questions:

1. Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to DELETE FOREVER ALL MEMORIES OF THE NIGHT from Melwen's mind?

No. I think a more reasonable and accurate take on this ability, based upon my familiarity with Tolkien, would be that he could temporarily confuse her, but the memory would eventually work its way back. And with a bop on the head followed by simple verbal suggestions coming from multiple sources that are "in" on the deception, a great deal could be done to convince her that the thing never happened, and by the time the memory started coming back, she would most likely put it down to the confusion of a concussion.

2.Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to heal the effects of Black Breath ENTIRELY?
I think that altho there might be some slight "residue" left over (they're kind of tired and shaky), that for the most part he could do this.

3. Can others (e.g. Oreturion) tamper with her brain and make her remember the night?

Yes, somewhat, because I look upon the power described in the #1 question as a kind of illness/injury that is inflicted, and anyone that is a healer could therefore "heal" it to varying degrees and the memory would come back faster than if it was left to "heal" on its own.

Now I would like to add one more question for the group, because for me, it's the most important one to be discussed:

4. Do you believe and accept that certain people can implant thoughts in another person's mind that impels them to do something, either in accord or out of accord with what they would naturally do?


General comments - There's a saying that I heard that goes like this: "take what you want, and then PAY for it!" My general feeling is that we're seeing a lot of "taking", but no "paying", with incidents like the Melwen incident (mainly the thought-implant part). From how it is currently written, I see NO reason why Khamul and the others can't just do this type of thing at ANY time, ANY place, ALL day long, without ANY problem whatsoever, and without ANY cost to themselves. And that just doesn't ring true to me.

Tyaron might be a good swordsman, and able to beat most men in a fight, but as he fights, he pays a price: he starts to tire, and he is in danger of incurring an injury, etc. I'd like to see the same concept here - maybe they can do these things only so often, and then they have to wait to build up some more power again or something? Or they can only do it in ways that might catch attention, so they can't just do it in public - they would have to lure the person into a dark alley or something. Anyway, SOME type of price.

In general, I think the concept of free will is vital to JRRT's works. I quoted JRRT himself on this, and the very fact that JRRT has Iluvatar Himself (for the most part) not interfering with free will is pretty telling, I think. So another "check" that we might put on this ability is that its strength is in direct proportion to how much the person would actually WANT to do this thing, anyway, and it wears off over time just like an illness or injury "heals".

Anyway, those are my thoughts, and I look forward to hearing other people's thoughts.

[Rían]

*Waves hand in air* That'd be why I joined with a character custom made for plotlyness! :rolleyes:

I didn't mention you, Maggie, because I was keeping it as a surprise!

I also have a strong feeling that Prof. Mahtaliel will be interacting with our study group ... :D

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Woah. Lots of posts to read. Great posts everyone. Now for the more serious questions.

1. Nazgûl power. I do think that the Nazgûl need to have limitation. I also think that they need to vary with each different Nazgûl. The Morgul Lord being more powerful than all all in everything. Same with Khamûl yet less powerful. Then all the other seven beinghaving the same overall power, yet specialising in different areas.
I will edit my post with Khamûl and Melwen. I'll have Khamûl mentally exhausted from his work, but admittting that it will wear off in time. Hours? Days? When Melwen does remember what happened, maybe an accident could ahppen. Thoughts? CS, could you also edit your Khamûl post to have him mentally exhausted.

2. Animals. I do think that most animals should fear the Nazgûl. Shah, maybe you could have Marty & Ray's horses run off in different directions because of Viv's presence? What do you think Lotesse.

[The last sane person]

I will do it for Marty's horse, though he wont run off entirely. Volricom has already had Viv ride around on him, adn it would be a royal pain in the ass to go back to 4 of my posts and some of Lotesse's posts to edit that.

[Gordis]

Gordis - I left the exact spot that Arabud started his climb purposefully vague, given my poor map skills - it was something like "a likely-looking spot". Since I wrote that he could see the lights, then it was obviously a spot where he could see the lights.
Good questions - that's the type of specific things I've been wanting to get straight - I'll think on them and get back to you.
If he climbed at a spot where he COULD see the lights, that means he climbed the FACADE of Orrodel. For everyone in the street to see; for Mahtaliel as well. Just for you to know.

And as we are currently discussing nazgul powers and limitations here is:

...and in the dark they perceive many signs and forms that are hidden from us: then they are most to be feared. And at all times they smell the blood of living things, desiring and hating it. Senses, too, there are other than sight or smell. We can feel their presence - it troubled our hearts, as soon as we came here, and before we saw them; they feel ours more keenly.(LOTR: the Knife in the Dark)
That is 100% Tolkien canon. Let it be a warning to mortals trying to sneak on us unawares.

[Rían]

Gordis - I also had him only climbing up a "few feet" :)
(on purpose!)

We will beware in the dark! :eek: :eek: But be careful what you quote :eek: ;) because we're not using everything that you just quoted in this rpg, right? Like "we can feel their presence" and "it troubled our hearts" (although actually I think some of our elves have had a vague, undefined disquiet feeling on occasion, IIRC. I don't think any humans had that feeling, though; right?).

I would like to see some more of the "smell the blood of living things, desiring and hating it" thing, though - it would be interesting to see the Nazgul be around people and battle that. I've seen something like that with the "elf-stench" thing and thought it was good!

[Rían]

Guys, I hate to nag, but I really think this discussion about getting some things straight will vastly improve the quality of the rpg, so I"d like to support the "other side" for a moment and ask pretty please that you guys don't start editing posts yet or have animals running away from Nazgul yet until we've come to an agreement. [/nag]

please don't get upset at me

[The last sane person]

Mad? Nah, I like you too much to be mad. I support Rian and the other side as well (for the moment)!

EDIT: Nice post Gordis! I like it muchly...I feel really sorry for poor Aiwendis.

[Butterbeer]

well, i ditto what shah just said... about Rian that is ... it is not a case of sides, but the rpg, as rian said.

I think it clear from both Val's and Earniel's stance that we do not go back and edit like crazy - we have to leave the animals reaction as is, but with some realism added occasionally, ... can we all agree on that?

just say "yes" :D

now i had a thought which i think fits in with some others here:

it was agreed that the nazgul do not take off their rings ...because they would then be very noticeable to animals and elves and kings etc etc ... but instead utter a spell to go invisable ... now i would suggest that if the Nazgul are uttering and maintaining a spell when invisable using both the powers of a spell and their rings to help maintain this spell, that indeed will take both concentration and power up ... thus when in invisable mode they are more open to be sensed ... maybe not as fully as of the time of LOTR when sauron has their rings and has them in thrall .... but they are more suspectible to elves, animals with their keener than mortal man's senses of fear, smell, instinct etc .... thus the nazgul must be very careful when invisable ...

to me this sounds both a realism we can build in, a balancer, and offers great rpg ans story oppoertunities for ALL, both naz and non naz ...

...er... now this will make you laugh :D , Boom has no ring and can flit between both worlds :rolleyes: ... but he would appear a bit odd to any that sensed him when in the shadow or spirit world too!

but boom ain't really the issue anyway! :D

course, i'll go by whatever is agreed .. but do not see a problem with Boom anyway.


I have pm'd Gor ref Boom and the morgul lord, and the wraith call to the north and hopefully soonish we will be all be more clear on the search for the ring, the suspicion it might even now be here in the north .. and (some) of the nazgul and wraith communities plans and musings ...

hopefully this will strengthen the plot and help all in giving a clearer story-line ...

hopefully too the Morgul lord will lay down the law in terms of activities that endanger their presence here and the search for the ring ... and urge more circumspection and care and less use of revealing powers that may be detected ... after all, what could be more important to all the nazgul than finding the one ring? .. either for themsleves or to stop it being eventually wielded by some great king or elf who would surely over time succumb to it - and them being enslaved anew????

If it is, as they suspect it might be, here and now in the north, it is vital to them not to screw up by indiscretion ... now that will not stop drinking, racing, loves, in-fights, arguments etc, but all the nazgul should be careful: let the maid incident drum this into them, when / if the morgul lord lays down the law in his inimitable cold and deadly fashion.... care should be taken lest one or more blow their cover ... i would like to see the captain be very strict on this and usage of powers that are suspicious ... but that is upto GOR

for me, the nazgul need be in no rush, they have plenty of time, and now free from slavery to Sauron, ... for ever? do they currently think that? - maybe ... at least for ever if they can get the One! ... or at least for one of them! ... what a prize!

so, they, at least the captain, are happy to bide their time, but also perhaps free and able to mix more easliy in this "free" time ... free also to enjoy themsleves a bit and with a wary eye on each other, position themselves to seek for the one ... for surely .. if one of the others gets it , they will ultimately be enslaved again! ... but no one maybe would say that in public ...???

so there may be alliances formed and broken, but over all the captain ruling with an iron fist.

best all, BB :)

[Lotesse]

Gordis - GREAT post!! I was so excited to finally read what Ilmenzor would say. Yay! :)


I'm at the library right now so my time's limited, but - about those questions, I was thinking that

1:yes, the erasure of Melwen's memory would be permanent IF she did not get help from someone like an Oreturion type who could delve into her mind at HER request or with her permission of course, and retrieve the memory that way. There'd have to be a reason to do this, maybe some kind of inquest into mysterious happenings, I don't know - but a reason why it would have to be done. But if she WEREN'T helped this way, the Khamul mind-job would stay effective, indefinitely.

2: yes, Black Breath can be healed by the one who inflicted it. (But didn't BUZ give Merwen the Black Breath? So only Buz could properly heal her. Maybe she can still be sickish from it, since Khamul couldn't really do the proper healing job on her. Just brainstorming here) Earlier I was suggesting that Nazgul could heal wounds/black breath that they themselves had inflicted. Did anyone see that yesterday, when I brought that up? Can we do that?

3: yes Oreturion-types could retrieve her memories for her but ONLY if she willingly went to him, looking to do this very thing. And perhaps Oreturion could see her memory without her knowing, but only if he specifically searched her mind for particulars that may or may not have happened in the past. It's a hidden memory, not a currently occuring thought.

hmmm, what else...

oh yeah - I already suggested one of the horses get skittish, but not Volcirom he's already used to Viv. Does anyone read what I say here? I suggested this like 3 times, Rian. :)

[Gordis]

BB, I got your PM and I read your post here, I agree with ALL your points. Please read my last post in the main, if you think it fits.

Please continue. You may make ML call Boom if you wish. I was vague about the call.
Be back later.

[Udukhaturz]

"1. Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to DELETE FOREVER ALL MEMORIES OF THE NIGHT from Melwen's mind?
2.Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to heal the effects of Black Breath ENTIRELY?
3. Can others (e.g. Oreturion) tamper with her brain and make her remember the night?" - Gordis

1. No.
2. Yes.
3. Possibly.

[Gordis]

I get a definite impression that very few of us have time and patience even to read this extensive posting in Discussion thread, much less reply to it. I certainly have not enough time to reply to all that should be replied. I feel some of us have way too much free time (Oh, how I envy them!).I propose to stop all these endless general discussions and start (if necessary) discuss particulars. Otherwise the Discussion Thread will be all that is left from the game.

[Lotesse]

I get a definite impression that very few of us have time and patience even to read this extensive posting in Discussion thread, much less reply to it. I certainly have not enough time to reply to all that should be replied. I feel some of us have way too much free time (Oh, how I envy them!).I propose to stop all these endless general discussions and start (if necessary) discuss particulars. Otherwise the Discussion Thread will be all that is left from the game.

I second this. I AGREE!!!

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I have edited my post #417, to show the mental effect Khamûl's work had had on him. I've also said that the memory would soon come back to her, but I'll edit that if needs be.

[Butterbeer]

very good post Gordis, skillfully done...

the only thing i would consider looking at is the total certaintly ML has that the king does not have the ring nor know of it ... i am sure he would know of it ... and i do not think he can be 100% sure he does not have it ... somewhere ... some uncertainty there is no bad thing and certainly good for story purposes ..

plus i'd like to see the captain take some control and warn of erring actions etc .... but surely that will come later??

yes, i agree, lets agree on what we can agree on, and move on .... let's note the concerns about nazgul powers getting in the future out of hand if not given some checks now and spend more time on the rpg!

... been meaning to post for a while :o

best all, BB :)

[Rían]

oh yeah - I already suggested one of the horses get skittish, but not Volcirom he's already used to Viv. Does anyone read what I say here? I suggested this like 3 times, Rian. :)Yes, I read what you say, but there's just so much that I sometimes forget who said what. I wasn't saying that you didn't say that, either :) I was just suggesting that we come to a consensus before we write about horses running off. I like the skittish idea, but I don't know if everyone else has accepted that yet.

[Gordis]

Lotesse, May I ask you to do some edits in the Main thread?

#428 "Ilmenzor assisted the contrite and battered Lilly"
No way he will assist Lilly. Let Penny carry her.

"while Udu, Aiwendis, Tolvadok and the Morgul Lord began an earnest and important discussion."
Please take away Aiwendis.
Aiwendis will sit quietly in a corner.

Who is she? Number Eight, nothing more. Among the Nine she must in no way look something like the Queen. The Morgul Lord is their King, she is just Number Eight. And some even despise her for being the Captain's mistress (like Tolvadok).

Serenoli, I ask you to edit your post #435, just because of the same reason.
"The Morgul Lord was seated near the center of the room, with Gordis near him, as usual".
That is not a behaviour she adopts when among the Nine. She knows her place.
And SORRY for not explaining it earlier. My fault entiely.

[Butterbeer]

isn't serenoli away for a few days, 4 days or so?

yeah, i had a coupla things i'd like her to look at in that post too, :D ...

yeah lotesse, i noticed too, but i also asked rian to not go ahead unilaterally, which she kindly did, till we agree

so: again simple question: are we agreed to keep animal reaction pretty much as is for rpg practicality with the odd unease post being fine for realism?

YES or NO only please.

final point ... YES or NO only please., again :

do we agree not to go TOO far with Nazgul powers?

and if invisable they are somewhat more vulnerable to being noticed?

that's YES or NO only please. :D

cheers!

[Gordis]

the only thing i would consider looking at is the total certaintly ML has that the king does not have the ring nor know of it ... i am sure he would know of it ... and i do not think he can be 100% sure he does not have it ... somewhere ... some uncertainty there is no bad thing and certainly good for story purposes ..

plus i'd like to see the captain take some control and warn of erring actions etc .... but surely that will come later??

yes, i agree, lets agree on what we can agree on, and move on .... let's note the concerns about nazgul powers getting in the future out of hand if not given some checks now and spend more time on the rpg!

... been meaning to post for a while :o

best all, BB :)
I agree, I agree.
I always agree if the thing is asked nicely for the benefit of the RPG, and not argued as the pure canon, which it isn't. ;) That makes me wanting to argue and argue and that will be the end of it all. :D

Re: uncertainty about Ring's whereabouts. I can put some. What do other think??



Udu, other nazgul, BB, I have no RL forces to write another big post today. So, please, continue along the lines of my PM and with your own ideas and story embelishments. Please post the end of the Morgul Lord's speech. Don't forget the admonishment, as BB says. Please, help. I am drained and all the other players wait for us to finish the night.

And the maid should be dealt with sometime very soon. :(

[Butterbeer]

ah well, night all! really must get a post up tommorow!

looking forward to the race!