What Happened to Radagast???

[Curubethion]

I'm just curious, does anyone have any theories on Radagast's fate? It seems like he kind of vanishes after that little incident with Saruman in FOTR. What happened to him??

[Nurvingiel]

Maybe he stayed in Middle-earth. That's my theory until someone trounces it with a HoME or Letters quote. :D

[durinsbane2244]

yes, he most likely did. liked all the animals and such things.

[rohirrim TR]

then he would have had to have chosen mortality or something then.

[Curubethion]

He does pop up in Assasin's Shadow, though...(oops, did I just shamelessly plug my own RPG? :D )
I'm wondering...did he just like wander around Middle Earth?
:eek: I just got an idea-what if he turned into Ralph Nader???

[Radagast The Brown]

then he would have had to have chosen mortality or something then.I don't think it's possible... he wasn't a mere elf like Arwen (although, Arwen was descendent of Melian) so I don't think he could have chosen mortality even if he wanted to, and I don't see why would the Valar care... maybe he was even punished by not having the option of returning to Valinor.

[BeardofPants]

Would that necessarily be considered a punishment for him though? I mean, by all accounts, he would have been more than happy to stay with his furry friends.

[Radagast The Brown]

Would that necessarily be considered a punishment for him though? I mean, by all accounts, he would have been more than happy to stay with his furry friends.I'm not sure. Were there no animals in Aman?

[BeardofPants]

I believe there were, but does that necessarily mean that Radagast would want to leave his established friends?

[durinsbane2244]

i think he remained in middle earth, who knows? maybe he's merlin.....

scratch that, if any of the wizards were merlin it was most likely one of the two unnamed blue wizards who passed into the east and were not heard from again.....

geez, why do i always end with a ....?

[Maerbenn]

Concerning animals in Aman: But for their delight and use there were in Aman also a great multitude of creatures, without fëar, of many kinds: animals or moving creatures, and plants that are steadfast. There, it is believed, were the counterparts of all the creatures that are or have been on Earth [read Middle-earth], and others also that were made for Aman only. (from the ‘Aman’ essay in ‘Myths Transformed’ published in HoMe X: Morgoth’s Ring)

[Gordis]

Thanks for the quote, Maerbenn. Ever have you a quote handy! :)

The animals of Aman are without fear, that means nobody hunts them. Poor Orome must have set aside his bow, once he was denied access to the ME.

So it fits, that Radagast has decided to remain in Great Lands to protect birds and beasts there, instead of returning to Aman.

[Maerbenn]

The animals of Aman are without fearIf you are referring to my quote, it says that creatures (animals and plants) do not have fëar.

A fëa is, according to the Commentary on ‘Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth’ published in HoMe X, roughly but not exactly equivalent to a soul.

[Gordis]

OOPS, Sorry. I was too unattentive and hasty in reading this quote. Indeed I missed the two points in fëar. Yes, I know what a fëa means...

[Alcuin]

In the essay “The Istari� in Unfinished Tales, Tolkien wrote Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name (which is in the tongue of Númenor of old, and signifies, it is said, “tender of beasts�).On the other hand, at the Council of Elrond (FotR), Gandalf says of his captivity in Orthanc:‘At first I feared, as Saruman no doubt intended, that Radagast had also fallen. Yet I had caught no hint of anything wrong in his voice or in his eye at our meeting. If I had, I should never have gone to Isengard, or I should have gone more warily. So Saruman guessed, and he had concealed his mind and deceived his messenger. It would have been useless in any case to try and win over the honest Radagast to treachery. He sought me in good faith, and so persuaded me.Finally, consider Gandalf’s (and Bilbo’s) introductory meeting with Beorn in The Hobbit:“I have heard of you, if you have not heard of me; but perhaps you have heard of my good cousin Radagast who lives near the Southern borders of Mirkwood?�

“Yes; not a bad fellow as wizards go, I believe. I used to see him now and again,� said Beorn.
The subject is open to some debate – I hope – but it seems to me that while Radagast “fell away� from his original mission, which was “to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron ... would endeavour to dominate and corrupt� (“The Istari�, Unfinished Tales), there are a number of mitigating factors on Radagast’s behalf that, to me at least, make his “failure� much less onerous.

In The Hobbit, Beorn is rather well-disposed toward Radagast, and hence toward Gandalf, Bilbo, and the dwarves; without Beorn’s help at two crucial junctures – immediately after their escape from the orcs coupled with his good advice before their entry into Mirkwood, and later his appearance at the Battle of Five Armies – the Quest for Erebor would have failed. Radagast’s reputation for honesty and decency was perhaps the deciding factor here.

Consider what Gandalf had to say to the Council of Elrond immediately after the quote above:

‘... Radagast knew no reason why he should not do as I asked; and he rode away towards Mirkwood where he had many friends of old. And the Eagles of the Mountains went far and wide, and they saw many things: the gathering of wolves and the mustering of Orcs; and the Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands; and they heard news of the escape of Gollum. And they sent a messenger to bring these tidings to me.

‘So it was that when summer waned, there came a night of moon, and Gwaihir the Windlord, swiftest of the Great Eagles, came unlooked-for to Orthanc; and he found me standing on the pinnacle. Then I spoke to him and he bore me away, before Saruman was aware.Again, “the honest Radagast� played a crucial intermediary role: his actions sent Gwaihir the Eagle to Orthanc, and so Gandalf was able to escape. Without Radagast, Gandalf could not have escaped, and the Quest of Mount Doom would have failed.

Was Radagast true to his mission? Tolkien says no, so we are left with the conclusion that Radagast was not true to his mission. In his defense, however, Radagast was instrumental in Gandalf’s escapes once the Ring appeared, twice from the orcs (through his good relations with Beorn) and once from the clutches of the fallen Saruman, and he was in fact the motivator of Gandalf’s escape from Orthanc.

Saruman suffered a fate similar to Sauron’s, at least superficially: both Maiar dissolved into a smoke or cloud, and were blown away by the wind. (Tolkien specifically says “out of the West came a cold wind� that blew away Saruman’s spirit; in Sauron’s case, he writes that “a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed�, but he does not say from which direction the wind came; a North wind had been blowing before the battle at the Black Gate began, but perhaps there was a change in the winds of fortune when the Ring was destroyed.)

Later in the essay “The Istari�, Christopher Tolkien expresses his opinion that...the suggestion in the essay on the Istari ... that in becoming enamoured of the wild creatures of Middle-earth Radagast neglected the purpose for which he was sent is perhaps not perfectly in accord with the idea of his being specially chosen by Yavanna. There is no reason, IMO, to believe that Radagast was barred from returning to Valinor. The question might well be, when would he tire of Middle-Earth and return? His honor and reward were less than Gandalf’s, no doubt; but he was honorable nonetheless, honest, and even without intending it, helped Gandalf in instances of grave crisis.

[Butterbeer]

I can see no reason for him to be banned passage back to the west should he seek it ... as Alcuin states ... he was not corrupted ... we can question how true to his mission he was ... thus perhaps not earning great glory ... but he was not a traitor ... as others have stated he may have remained in middle earth .. and perhaps still does ...

he was ever from what we can tell happy to live a secluded existence ... maybe Yavanna would be pleased with him??

But then as each to their own were less than faithful in their own ways ..perhaps his neglecting his primary concerns for men and elves etc for the flora and esp fauna, could be seen as a form of corruption ... merely a gentler one? If this is true then effectively to some degree he turned his back on his mission to middle earth ... though i still doubt he would be barred from the west.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

His mission in ME was to help fight Sauron. Radagast and the Blue Wizards forsook that mission almost immediatly from what I can tell. Saruman indirectly fought against Sauron for a time before he was corrupted.
IMO the reason Saruman wasn't allowed back into the West was more about him forsaking his mission than it was about him becoming corrupted.

[Embladyne]

I have no HOME books or Letters of Tolkien at hand to reference from, but there are varying accounts of the Blue Wizards' actions in ME. (We all know how much the prof liked to revise.) In one version, they did aid men in the East, and I think they were important in making the victory over Sauron possible.

Back to the topic:
Seeing as Yavanna was the one to champion Radagast's inclusion in the Istari, I think his main role was not merely to council men, but rather to foster good relations between human civilzations and the olvar and kelvar. This and other good results would have been better accomplished had all the istari worked together more closely.

I don't believe that Radagast did leave Middle Earth after the victory over Sauron. He cared too much about the olvar and kelvar of Middle Earth to just be able to leave them without his protection and care.

[Draken]

Let's face it the Istari, as a team, were utter pants. You can just imagine them landing on Middle Earth's shores.

Gandalf: And so our task starts, my brothers. Let us start to battle the shadow that threatens all of Middle Earth

BW1: Are you thinking what I'm thing BW2?

BW2: I think I AM BW1....

BW1: We don't feel like battling the shadow right now.

BW2: That journey was the pits. We need a holiday.

BW1: Yeah the East sounds nice.

Gandalf: Erm... the East? Well you may find that Sauron's evil even now engulfs the East. Yes, go my friends, and should you find the shadow festers there make sure you...

BW2: ...avoid it like the plague? No probs.

BW1: Er no he wants us to fight it.

BW2: Fight it? Yeah, I meant that. Ok, bye!

Exit BWs 1 & 2

Gandalf: Ahem, so it falls upon we three to scour North, South and West in our quest to destroy Sauron and his work.

Saruman: Yes, I suppose we should. Such a shame though isn't it?

Gandalf: What?

Saruman: I mean, he's achieved so MUCH. You know in a sense you've got to admire him. Sort of. Don't you think?

Gandalf: Not really, no...

Saruman: Ok, shutting up now. I'll go south and find, I dunno, an impregnable fortified tower as a secret base for world domination - er I mean for resisting Sauron...

Exit Saruman

Gandalf: Radagast, surely you are still whole-hearted about our task?

Radagast: But of course. The monstrous evil that is Sauron must not be allowed to take root and thrive. I shall spare no effort to find him. I shall risk all to defy him. I shall... ooh look! A bunny! A bunny!

Gandalf: Oh for goodness sake...

[Curubethion]

:D :D :D That's a pretty good interpretation. Better than Cliff's Notes, I think!

[durinsbane2244]

wow...draken, that's hilarious... :D :D :D , but! it never says that the blue wizards forsook their quest, nay, it doth declare that they "passed into the east", thus, we cannot assume that they fought for nought, nor that they abandoned the istari, mayhaps they were slaughtered, i always thought they might have been lesser because they didn't have their own colors, or that they were a team, but, another point, they didn't have colors when they came, celeborn made the council, so they had to have been true for a while in order to join up...hehe...a bunny! a bunny! brilliant...

[rohirrim TR]

now we know...the rest of the story.

[Draken]

From what I've heard, durinsbane2244, JRRT was in two minds as to what became of the Blue Wizards. One version was that the support from the East for Sauron would have been so much greater without them - implying they did their job and rallied some sort of resistance to him. The other version is that they set up their own cultish followings, presumably for selfish gain.

Neither option is very amusing though.

[durinsbane2244]

i don't remember exactly where it was i read it...mayhaps in the tolkien companion [big encyclopidia of lotr] or in the HoME, but i found out who the witch king once was, and that kinda dissapointed me, cuz i had this theory that he was one of the blue wizards corrupted and such...but alas, to no avail...

[Nurvingiel]

From what I've heard, durinsbane2244, JRRT was in two minds as to what became of the Blue Wizards. One version was that the support from the East for Sauron would have been so much greater without them - implying they did their job and rallied some sort of resistance to him. The other version is that they set up their own cultish followings, presumably for selfish gain.

Neither option is very amusing though.
The tale of option one there is one I'd love to hear. But your version was much funnier! :D I love your sense of humour Draken. :D

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

It never says that the blue wizards forsook their quest, nay, it doth declare that they "passed into the east", thus, we cannot assume that they fought for nought, nor that they abandoned the istari...

Although it does not say for certain that the Blue Wizards forsook their quest does it not say that the only of the Istari to return back to Valinor was Olorin? Wouldn't that mean then that Radagast stayed for his love of the animals and trees? Sauruman stayed, wandering as a prisoner of death? And the blue wizards for one reason or another never returned to Valinor? If that were true then... wouldn't that mean they must have forsaken the quest they undertook?

[Draken]

Cheers Nurv! I'm blushing now! :)

[durinsbane2244]

forsaken there quest, or died...and didn't saruman get blown away?

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

forsaken there quest, or died...and didn't saruman get blown away?

If the blue wizards had mearley died while attempting to fullfill their quest why would they not be able to go back to Valinor? Something kept the wizards from returning and therefore unless it was against their will,(an action of Saruman or maybe Sauron) then I can't see any other reason the two Blue Wizards would not return to Valinor even in death. Also It does say at the end of Sarumans death that it was like a smoke blow away, but that does not litterally mean that Saruman was blown away into nothingness, the Maiar and Valar were inately formeless so technically Saruman had just returned to his orgigional Maia state and wandered ME forever...

Edit: Also I can't remeber where, perhaps the HoME, but I recall somewhere it stating that there was powerful Sorcerers in the east, aiding the Easterling armies and the others. Perhaps this was the work of the Blue Wizards?

[Radagast The Brown]

I don't have the Letters of Tolkien or The People of Middle Earth to verrify, but I found something interesting from this site (http://www.lotrlibrary.com/agesofarda/bluewizards.asp):
"The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age.(26) Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador.But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir -up rebellion...and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East...They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarrayinbg the forces of the East...who would both in the Second and Third Age otherwise have ...outnumbered the West.

[durinsbane2244]

whoa whoa whoa....did that just name the two unnamed blue wizards? SWEET!!! :D

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

I don't have the Letters of Tolkien or The People of Middle Earth to verrify, but I found something interesting from this site (http://www.lotrlibrary.com/agesofarda/bluewizards.asp):
"The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age.(26) Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador.But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir -up rebellion...and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East...They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarrayinbg the forces of the East...who would both in the Second and Third Age otherwise have ...outnumbered the West.
However all of this is only speculation, the only thing that can be said for sure of the Blue Wizards is this;
"...But there were others, two dressed in sea-blue...of the Blue little was known in the west [of Middle-earth], and they had no names save Ithryn Luin ‘the Blue Wizards’; for they traveled to the east with CurunÃ*r, but they never returned; and whether they remaine in the East, pursuing there the purposes for which they sent; or perished; or as some hold were ensnared by Sauron and became his servants it is not now known. But none of these chances were impossible to be.â€�
And as I said before I am 99% sure it says somewhere that the only one of the Istari to return to Valinor was Olorin. If that is true does that not mean that the Blue Wizards were either incapacitated or turned from their path like Saruman or Radagast? If they had held true to their mission wouldn't they had been able to return to Valinor? Even if they had been killed attempting their mission they could still return to Valinor as their true formless Maia form!?

[durinsbane2244]

so they're still unnamed...tear... :(

[Maerbenn]

However all of this is only speculationDo you mean speculation by Professor J.R.R. Tolkien? He wrote the passage Radagast The Brown quoted in 1972, and it was published in The History of Middle-earth volume XII: The Peoples of Middle-earth in 1996.so they're still unnamed...tear... :(The first time any names for them (Alatar and Pallando) were published was in Unfinished Tales in 1980.

[durinsbane2244]

than......they are no longer the unnamed two blue wizards...odd...

[Jon S.]

From barrowsdown.com:

Of the other two, we are given far less information. They're given the names Alatar and Pallando in Unfinished Tales, though it's possible that these weren't names, but titles, given due to their lack of names. Because they spent no time in the northwest of Middle-earth, they are not given names there like Gandalf had been given. Together they are referred to as Ithryn Luin, meaning "blue wizards" because they were clad in sea-blue robes.

About Pallando's 'name,' Christopher Tolkien gives us this footnote in Unfinished Tales:

Pallando, despite the spelling, perhaps contains palan "afar", as in palantir and in Pallaran "Far Wanderer," the name of Aldarion's ship.

In The Peoples of Middle-earth, Christopher Tolkien informs us of another note Tolkien made on the blue wizards, this time naming them "Morinehtar and Romestamo." Tolkien gives both of these names meanings: "Darkness-slayer and East-helper."

At Manwë's request for emissaries at a council, Alatar, a Maia of Oromë, was the second (after Curumo) and last to volunteer for the job. Alatar requested that he be able to bring along a friend, Pallando, who was also a Maia of Oromë. Upon the wizards' arrival to Middle-earth, they journeyed with Saruman into the east regions of Middle-earth (of which we know almost nothing). After a thousand years, Saruman returned alone. Tolkien was unsure of what happened to them. His thoughts on the matter are given in Unfinished Tales in a footnote to the 'Istari' chapter:

I think they went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South, far out of Numenorean range: missionaries to enemy-occupied lands, as it were. What success they had I do not know; but I fear that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.

Other notes by Tolkien, apparently an earlier conception of the blue wizards, are presented in The Peoples of Middle-earth (as mentioned above). The notes were fairly difficult to make out - the text in brackets is Christopher trying to make out his father's handwriting. Here they are:

The other two are only known to (have) exist(ed) [sic] by Saruman, Gandalf, and Radagast, and Saruman in his wrath mentioning five was letting out a piece of private information.

The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age. Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador. But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [? dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.

These ideas from HoME XII were abandoned, apparently, as we see Tolkien state that "Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful." This 'one' being Gandalf, obviously, meaning Alatar/Pallando weren't successful in whatever they did out there. This statement also negates the theory of there being more than five Istari.

Did Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando go to Valinor? We're not told either way. Of the three, Radagast seems the most likely, but it seems certain that all three would have returned to Valinor at some point, unless they were as naughty as Curumo.

Primary sources:
Unfinished Tales (The Istari chapter)
History of Middle-earth, Volume XII: The Peoples of Middle-earth
The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings (for the accounts of Radagast)

[durinsbane2244]

wow...nice...so, by eastern regions, does that mean past the map we see in the books?

[ElfGal]

Radghast is a curious character...I don't think you can assume anything, but, I believe that he stayed in Arda after WR and left it when Iluvatar didn't need him anymore.

[Jon S.]

"Tune in - turn on - drop out."

Why Radagast was just a hippie before his time. ;)