Diminishing Interest

[trolls' bane]

I have one serious problem with my writing. When I start something, the first few pages are always great, as Lotesse pointed out on the first 6 chapters of ZAQ1 ;) . Later on in the story, I slow down in writing it, going from four pages to two pages to half a page a day. The reason for this? It is not because I am losing interest (the title of the thread is misleading), it is because I am killing my character's appeal to others by beginning to add useless bits of conversation, over-charactering myslef--a major problem with me, since I am terrible at making up names, pointless remarks, poor interludes, over-describing and over-explaining, little plot progress, little story telling, using too many paranthasies, too little figurative speech, too many similies and metaphors which are always (and for worse) used to describe and tend to be vague (the chair was like a smoke tree in size), longer and longer sentences, and finally too much repitition in form:
"I don't know," Siggy said. "I've never heard of such a creature!"
The Captain looked up from the map before him. "Sure! They are like elephants, in fact they are elephants. The first explorers from Earth brought elephants along with them because they could carry large loads and are relatively cheap. Here, they are so large because of the low gravity, which has allowed them to grow to such size. On an Earth like planet, they would simply be to heavy to get up."
"Oh." Siggy said. "I wondered because this Elephant here looks like it could tear down a Sequoia tree like a toothpick.
"I'm surprised you know what a Sequoia is," the Captain said.
"Of course I do," Siggy replied.
You see? It's terrible. THe longer the story, the worse I get. I plan too little and predict too much, if you get what I mean. We can all assume how the story will end up (if you have read it). I have little doubt in my mind that it will end with the protagonist (Sigmund) the victor, or at least with success. All stories end this way, unless you're George Orwell. I want to avoid such a monotoneous outcome, yet doubt it possible. I read my own writing, and instantly I don't feel like writing anymore. I guarentee you that I will end up leaving this story in a drawer, leaving the website abandoned, and forget about it for a few months. I already feel this happening, since I am thinking too much. I write as though I'm the character. With minimal planning, I just figure it out as I go. The problem is when I start to ramble on about something that has nothing to do with what is happening, or rambling on too much about what is happening. It gets real annoying for even me to read. As of now, ZAQ1 is far behind on where it should be, the parabola of writing is now beginning to go where I don't want it to go: below zero which means writer's block and/or abandoning.

Can someone help? Does anyone else have problems like this?

[Earniel]

That's mainly the reason why I don't start writing until the whole story is fleshed out to a considerable detail in my head. I get long-winded and really boring otherwise. If I know from the start where I want to take the story and which steps on the road it has to take, I can avoid (most) rambling.

Apart from that I edit (and shorten) a lot, trying to keep only the essential bits to the story. Which is why I'm so very glad I can write on a computer and don't have to write on paper because I correct and change too much to keep any story on paper readable. Besides, the reader must be able to invest something in the story as well. If there's nothing left to imagine and everything is detailedly described, stories can become less interesting.

Setting a paper limit or word limit on a story or chapter can work too. This method works for me the best. My first two stories had a very strict 2000 words limit and they came out a lot better since I adhered to the limit. Of course you're in for major rewrital(s) of your material then. But since I edit my first drafts a lot, I'm not bothered by that. Although in one or two case I had to up my set limit because the story was too big to fit.

One other thing that works for me to keep stories less cluttered is by never writing a character that is like myself. If I write about a character that is a reflection of my own personality the quality of the story invariably goes down. I always end up trying to explain too much. (That may explain why most of the chief characters in my finished stories are male.)

But then again, my stories are always short stories, I've never attempted anything novel-like and most likely won't try that for several years.

[MrBishop]

There are two things which tend to keep me writing...preparation and schedule. Schedule means that I set up a specific time to write every day and stick to it...even if I don't type out a single character or phrase, just the act of being there in front of the compi helps me get over the block most times.

As for preparation...I don't build my stories from start to finish before beginning the act of writing...I'd never get around to actually writing and I find that it becomes too strict for 'literary license'...basically, roaming. :)

But...if I do get stuck, then it gives me a good opportunity to 'flesh out' my characters a bit. Asking myself what a character's motivation is, who that motivation would affect another character, what kind of pitfalls that mindset would cause, what doors it might open etc...

Those kinds of notes...even mental ones, will help you with the editing portion as well. "Hey... s/he wouldn't do that!!?!" is the epitamy of editing tools :D

[MrBishop]

Oh...a fellow writer recommended a great book to me. It's especially good for those of us who create new cultures and civilizations from scratch.

It's called "The Silent Language" by, Edward T. Hall.

It's a sociology book, but the Silent Language is society... he basically disects what it is to be a society and gives out an excellent roadmap to building one..though I don't think that this was his initial intention. The book can be used as a kind of Q&A for your culture-building.

I highly recommend it!

[brownjenkins]

heya bish!

i like to write from a movie-director pov... cut out as much unessential info as possible without totally losing description... in many ways tolkien was like that too... the problem is, the plot has to have a lot going on action or progression-wise to keep that up

i have something i've been working on, on and off, and i spent a lot of time (as is years :p ) working on defining characters, basic story progression, how the plot and pov will jump from chapters to chapters, etc... and now i'm kind of filling in the blanks... like drawing a sketch before actually doing a painting

now if i could just stop changing my mind on stuff ;)

[MrBishop]

Heyas BJ...I always forget that you were/are a mooter :)

Ever write in the first person singular/plural? Tougher than 3rd person (director).

The 'me' kept trying to sneak in instead of how the character would act/react.

Big'ol pitfall for me..which is why I try to never write 1st person. :p

Another pitfall for me is descriptives...trying to find balance between glossing over scenery and describing the flecks of dust swirling in the air around the character's heads, is a pain. I'm trying to use minimalist style, then highlight the writing (MSWord) where I think that good scene description would work, and go back to it later.

[brownjenkins]

i actually like the first person better... but not necessarily the same throughout... but i know what you mean on the personality slipping in... it is also very hard to avoid expressions that don't really fit the story setting... especially if doing fantasy, you have to come up with your own version "jesus christ!" without making it sound cheesy :p

[MrBishop]

Creeping cronkite! *taken
Holy Hannah *taken
...

Yeah...though in one story that I'm writing, I've got a series of exclmations based on a loosly described religion.

"By His face!"

Theology and its place in a story is another toughie. Not every character can be agnostic or athiestic, and religious zealots make for good antagonists. Just think of the "Children of the Light" in Jordan's books... literally the spanish inquisition revisited.

[Lief Erikson]

Theology and its place in a story is another toughie. Not every character can be agnostic or athiestic, and religious zealots make for good antagonists. Just think of the "Children of the Light" in Jordan's books... literally the spanish inquisition revisited.
The White Tower and other nations are just as bad or worse than they are, however, for non-religious reasons. Whitecloaks also aren't all that scary, for they have a big lacking of power. Any of the main characters can defeat any number of them.


I personally like writing third person best. "Robert raised his torch and strode into the cave."

[Tessar]

Troll's Bane, most of the 'problems' with the snippit you showed us could easily be dealt with (well... sort of easily ;)) by a little editing. Then of course you'll want to edit it some more. Then more. Then more.

By the time a professional story is ready to be published it has usually been reedited at least five or six times, and that's only for the very, very good writers.

Heck, for this one essay on writing that I had to read in my english class, the writer had revised and edited the essay seven times before it got published. Then when it was republished a few years later he revised it three more times. Then when it was going to be published in the book I read it from he revised and edited a further two or three times. It was still boring :rolleyes:, but I think you get the general idea :p.

[IronParrot]

It's easy for a character to run of steam after you've played with it enough, and if as the author you are bored with that character yourself, absolutely you should worry about what the reader will think. On a technical level, Tessar is right: revise, revise, revise.

Of course, you can only revise once you have something there that can be subject to revision, so the other problem is how to get your character unstuck if it doesn't seem like it can be further developed. Conflict is usually the answer. Make the situations dynamic. Challenge your character at every turn and with every line of dialogue. If he doesn't know about some exotic pseudo-elephant, emphasize his ignorance. Does he react to not knowing something with the joy of learning and discovery, or shame at not having known? If of course he knows what sequoias are, what does that say about his attitude towards his own past experience?

I'm not saying that you should spell it out to the reader, as that would put you at risk of being too expository, too static. But always keep principles and motivations in mind with everything your character does and says, and the way he/she is portrayed will be substantially richer. Then the reader can infer his/her personality, and inviting such inferences is how to keep the audience hooked.

[MrBishop]

Whitecloaks also aren't all that scary, for they have a big lacking of power. Any of the main characters can defeat any number of them.

Numbers...it's all in the numbers. :) We still havn't seen the CotL fighting except in their home 'town' with diminished numbers and taken by surprise in the middle of the night. I still think that jordan's going to eventually bring the Children into the fold of 'the good guys' for the last battle :)
****

Overediting is a bad thing as well.... thinking too much about how the book will 'read' while in the process is a big block for a lot of the writers that I know. I know of one guy who seems to be writing in reverse, scrapping entire chapters in order to add in 5-6 paragraphs.... this is a valid edit if the book is finished, but he's only about 150 pages into it, and not close to the end (from what little I've read).

For some people, the word processor is a very bad idea...too easy to edit.

[trolls' bane]

I find that the way I write now works good too. I put down a chapter or so on paper, making it sound great to me at the time, then later on read it and think it's too dumb. Then, I transcribe it to the computer, using memory of the next few sentences and a little bit of changing and it sounds great when it comes out on the screen. Usually, these transcriptions come out with a different number of paragraphs and sentences, and it has worked quite well.

I notice, though, that while I'm writing, the characters are totally different, but their personalities slowly blend together. That is why, and I've planned this ahead, one of the main characters in ZAQ1 (Percy Russell) is going to stay behind (doesn't ruing much telling that now, because that only makes you just as far ahead as I am) on-planet, and a few other characters are going to be killed off, with a possibility of one returning when I can start off his personality with a clean slate (not a new personality, but you get the idea).
I also feel that it is easier on me to "bump up" chapters. By this I mean that I write out a chapter, then later on (usually the next chapter) I find that I need to add a whole lot of something in to have a smooth story. So, I take the chapter (the one I had finished) and "bump it up" to the next chapter (i.e. Chapter 6 becomes 7 while former Chapter 7 becomes 8). I also divide and join chapters, parts of chapters, and paragraphs. The first two chapters of ZAQ1 were originally not chapters at all, but when I realized the potential of the story, I divided it into two chapters. I went along with writing, and pretty soon the two resulting chapters little resembled their original form. This caused a slight problem, because now half of what is now chapter two was chapter one back then, so I added in all of the necessary stuff in front of present-day chapter 2, made the beginning of present day chapter 2 into chapter 2, and the part before thus became chapter one. Even the chapter mark has gone up and down on the first 5 pages many times since, but I think I like the way it is now.