Gundabad history

[CrazySquirrel]

I am confused about Gundabad, the mountain in the North of the Misty Mountains.

Originally it was a dwarven kingdom (First Age??)
Then it passed to orcs and became their capitol.

But when was it taken?
Who knows anything about Gundabad history?

Help is needed!

[Butterbeer]

legend has it there is a great orc tavern there where all the orcs drink and fight....

web-search, source 1) tuckborough.net/mountains.html

Gundabad
Mountain in the Misty Mountains. Mount Gundabad was located in the far northern Misty Mountains, near the western end of the Grey Mountains. It was a large mountain and it stood apart from the others in the range.
According to the legends of the Dwarves, Mount Gundabad was where Durin, the eldest of the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves, awoke in ancient times. For this reason, the mountain was revered by the Dwarves.

In the middle of the Second Age, Orcs invaded the mountains and claimed Mount Gundabad, which became their capital. The Dwarves resented this desecration of the waking place of their great ancestor and it fueled their hatred for the Orcs. During the War of the Dwarves and the Orcs (2793-2799), the Dwarves assailed and sacked the Orc stronghold at Gundabad. But the Orcs later regrouped, and in 2941 a vast host of Orcs and Wargs gathered at Mount Gundabad and marched to the Lonely Mountain, where they were defeated by the Dwarves, Wood-Elves, and Lake-Men in the Battle of the Five Armies.

Other Names:
Also called Gundabad of the North.

Etymology:
The name Gundabad is Dwarvish in origin. It is most likely derived from gunud meaning "delve underground, excavate, tunnel" and gundu meaning "underground hall."

Sources:
The Hobbit: "The Clouds Burst," p. 292-93 and Map of Wilderland
Appendix A: "Durin's Folk," p. 355
The History of Middle-earth, vol. XII, The Peoples of Middle-earth: "Of Dwarves and Men," p. 301, 305, 322-23 note 25; "The Shibboleth of Feanor," p. 352

Source 2) web search, frankly can't be bothered to name the source :D
The Orcs of the Misty Mountains had a city under Mount Gundabad in the far north. Tolkien may have intended this to be the successor of Carn Dum, the capitol city of Angmar, which was destroyed in the 20th century TA.


Bunch of old tosh 3)

Orcs There were many different tribes of Orcs, and although there was cooperation within the tribe, between tribes Orcs hated each other as much as they did everything else. However, there was some organization among tribes, and the Orcs of the Misty Mountains had a capital, Gundabad. Cooperation was, not surprisingly, greater in wartime, when large numbers of Orcs, often under the control of Sauron, were able to work together to fight the Free Peoples.

[Radagast The Brown]

I couldn't really find anything about the mountain, except one mention in the Appendix, saying the Dwarves cleaned the place of orcs before Nanduhirion, in revenge of the murder of Thror.

I suppose that if it was a Dwarven kingdom before, it was attacked at around 1300 Third Age (it is said in the Tale of the Years that at this time orcs came to the Misty Mountains and attacked the dwarves).

[CrazySquirrel]

Thanks, BB and Radagast!

web-search, source 1) tuckborough.net/mountains.html

In the middle of the Second Age, Orcs invaded the mountains and claimed Mount Gundabad, which became their capital.
I think that might be a mistake. I believe Radagast is right, it was in the middle of the Third age, not the Second, that orcs have taken Gundabad. In SA , Sauron had very little power in Eriador, all the mountains to the North were probably controlled by the Elves of Rivendell, while Sau remained in Mordor and expanded his influence East...

[Radagast The Brown]

Yeah, it seems so... also wikipedia agrees with me -

...In the Third Age, the Orcs of Angmar claimed it as their capital, which was one of the reasons for the Dwarves' special hatred of this people. After the fall of Angmar Gundabad remained an Orc stronghold, until it was cleaned of Orcs during the War of the Dwarves and Orcs.

[CrazySquirrel]

So it looks like there were dwarves, not orcs there by the time of LOTR?

[Butterbeer]

the majority of orcs from the battle of five armies i.e. bilbo's time were from gundabad. so it was orc held then.


In the times of
The war of orcs and dwarves which was before the battle of five armies the dwarves may have sacked it, but not held it and therefore we can reasonably assume the orcs later gathered there again and were there established by the time of LOTR.

[CrazySquirrel]

Right, BB!
Let's go there for a drink then...

[Butterbeer]

and maybe a bite to eat?

[Findegil]

Gundabad was first captured by Orcs in the early second Age, when band of orks flying from the War of Wrath thought for a new home. But the Dwarves of Dúrins race formed a alliance with the northmen, defested the Orcs and recaptured Gundabad.

When Sauron attacked the Elves in Eriador in the middle of the second Age he had also led an attack on the alliance of Dwarves and Men, which was much more successful: the alliance was destroyed, then Men were driven into povertry at the edges of Greenwood, Gundabad was captured and held after by the Orcs, for a time comunication between Moria and Ered Engrin was cut off.

Ever after Gundabad remind the capital of the Orcs in the Misty Mountians. In 2793 third Age Gundabad was the first Orc-city that the Dwarves attacked and cleaned, but they did not hold it. So later the Orcs creapted back in.

Respectfully
Findegil

[CrazySquirrel]

Thank you for the post, Findegil. It is very informative. I only wish you have added references to the sources, to make your info really useful.
Regards,
CS

[Findegil]

For the info in the first two paragraphs the source is "Of Men and Dwarves" in "The history of Middle-Earth"; volume 12: "The People of Middle-Earth".

The rest is a short hand conclusion from Appendix A III of "The Lord of the Rings".

Respectfully
Findegil