question for mods about "on topic"

[brownjenkins]

is deleting relatively harmless posts necessary?

per JDs (http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=11928) thread?

i can understand to some extent the "on topic" thing... but deleting stuff... it's not the end of the world or anything, but it makes conversation kinda tough

[Insidious Rex]

agreed. truly stunning move. PERFECTLY good material was just wiped away in the name of staying on a topic that was a mockery of itself to begin with. im amazed. why not just split stuff off at the very least?

[Blackheart]

Umm.. I was going to pontificate about the possibility of certain parallels in our own legal structure, (as per bluebook laws, and other similar policies) but I'm scared to now...

OMG, entmoot isn't a free country!

[brownjenkins]

My dear IR, I find it attrocious that you question moderator actions in open forum rather than by email or PM. That is a violation of Entmoot's posting policies, as you well know.

i wasn't aware of this myself... but considering the fact that we are all adults here... could we discuss this one issue in public?

[brownjenkins]

just read the rules again :D

i mod a few boards myself and know how these things go... it's tough keeping things in line... that said, i never delete 'cause it's irreversable

maybe in the future we could lock said thread and have the user start over... i personally had stepped out and didn't intend to step back in, seeing as it did not seem possible to fairly address the topic at hand within the limits imposed

those are my thoughts

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

<stands and claps>

[Sister Golden Hair]

Let me just say this: first, with the new vbulletin, deleted posts are not lost. All mods can see them still and the reasons given for their deletion. Deleted posts can be restored at anytime.

I find the starting of this thread to be totally out of line, however, I am not unwilling to discuss the issue, but as for Entmoot, no, it is not a free country.

I made a moderating call and deleted posts at my descretion which is reserved to the rights of the staff. You do not have to agree with it, but it would be nice if you appreciated the job we do.

[Elemmírë]

Entmoot isn't even a country! :p

Since the post is apparently still on record, if you guys liked it so much, can't SGH just PM it back to inked and have him post it in a thread where it isn't off topic?

[brownjenkins]

Let me just say this: first, with the new vbulletin, deleted posts are not lost. All mods can see them still and the reasons given for their deletion. Deleted posts can be restored at anytime.

I find the starting of this thread to be totally out of line, however, I am not unwilling to discuss the issue, but as for Entmoot, no, it is not a free country.

I made a moderating call and deleted posts at my descretion which is reserved to the rights of the staff. You do not have to agree with it, but it would be nice if you appreciated the job we do.

i think i did here and have before... but once again, i appreciate your efforts, all the more so 'cause i've been there :)

i just was offering an alternative solution for the future that might ruffle a few less feathers... and still achieve the same goal

obviously, the final decision is yours and i respect it because of your position, whether i agree with it or not

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i think i did here and have before... but once again, i appreciate your efforts, all the more so 'cause i've been there :)

i just was offering an alternative solution for the future that might ruffle a few less feathers... and still achieve the same goal

obviously, the final decision is yours and i respect it because of your position, whether i agree with it or not
that goes for most of us I reckon - we all luvs SGH ;)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, I thank you for that.

I must say that I think this whole matter on the thread in GMs has been blown out of proportion. It was a simple thing. As I said to IR, the fact that the thread was prompted by a CNN article doesn't alter what the topic was meant to be about. It wasn't to make another thread on politics that most here at Entmoot seem to love butting heads over. The topic was very simple: What is it that you appreciate about the freedoms of your country? I just don't see what all the fireworks started for. The posts I deleted IMO were off topic, and that's it. Some were becoming argumentative, so I made a call.

I think if you look at sun-star's last post, that is an example of what the the posting should have been like before the deletions.

Sorry to ruffle anyone's feathers.

[EarthBound]

:o OK, no one has posted here for a small while, and I'm completely baffled where to posts (since I'm careful about creating threads anymore). Here it goes.

Last edited by EarthBound : Today at 02:12 PM. Reason: I have NO COMPLAINTS, just trying inject some thought concerning the treatment of newby mistakes, in fact that quality may be the most defining attribute for board, I've been wrong before.

Perspective . The first thread I'd started once returning to the moot (after a long unforgivable absence) was the Don't Panic Thread, it was a good experience for me (obviously, I'm still here lurking around).

There was a discussion soon after I started it about whether I'd done a no-no and created a similar thread to existing ones. It was given the "OK" and the title Newby Friendly was added to it.

But, there were some flippant remarks made to (about?) my thread that felt like a slap in the face for the possibly repetitive thread yadayada. A real turnoff to someone new, BUT with lots of lurking and posting comes a thicker skin and 'posting-wisdom', and I don't think I'm as sensitive as I was just a few months ago.


While it may be great fun to be cynical and tyrant to the newbies (I still qualify I guess), it takes new blood, as it were, to keep anything worthwhile...worthwhile. Doesn't it?

I'm just thinking that those who perhaps make a posting or thread-creation mistake could be treated with more indulgence so they stick around and get to know how awesome everyone here is...

*reads what she wrote, sighs, “rant rant rant, I need to take my medication"*

[Elemmírë]

There was a discussion soon after I started it about whether I'd done a no-no and created a similar thread to existing ones. It was given the "OK" and the title Newby Friendly was added to it.

But, there were some flippant remarks made to (about?) my thread that felt like a slap in the face for the possibly repetitive thread yadayada. A real turnoff to someone new, BUT with lots of lurking and posting comes a thicker skin and 'posting-wisdom', and I don't think I'm as sensitive as I was just a few months ago.

While it may be great fun to be cynical and tyrant to the newbies (I still qualify I guess), it takes new blood, as it were, to keep anything worthwhile...worthwhile. Doesn't it?

I'm just thinking that those who perhaps make a posting or thread-creation mistake could be treated with more indulgence so they stick around and get to know how awesome everyone here is...

Yep, technically I think we're still newbies... :p *glares at post count*

I know when I first joined, the idea of starting a new thread petrified me... :o It took me almost a month to actually start one... In the long run, having some experience on the forum before starting a thread whas probably better for me.

Of course, I don't suggest that all newbies do that... :p I can see why you ran into some trouble, EB (neat topic, btw :), and not at all related to RÃ*an's thread, I don't think), but it doesn't seem to me that newbies are really treated all that tyrannically...

[EarthBound]

Yep, technically I think we're still newbies... :p *glares at post count*

I know when I first joined, the idea of starting a new thread petrified me... :o It took me almost a month to actually start one... In the long run, having some experience on the forum before starting a thread whas probably better for me.

Of course, I don't suggest that all newbies do that... :p I can see why you ran into some trouble, EB (neat topic, btw :), and not at all related to RÃ*an's thread, I don't think), but it doesn't seem to me that newbies are really treated all that tyrannically...


*hits computer…examines post count…�Rats�*

Yeah, it’s been a learning curve. I just wish the moderators could do the deciding without all the interjected (and off topic, I might add…and just did) ruffles about the worthiness of any said thread. It’s rather a downer to a newby and better left to the moderator (it’s a much much easier pill to swallow).

In no way am I suggesting the board is particularly cruel to newbys by the by, it is in fact very kind for the most part. You need a few people to shake things up or it would be boring, but my point was directed at dealing with newby mistakes with some class (kind suggestions, PM the moderator to deal with it, or PM the thread creator), rather than publicly flailing the person for a first time mistake. Second time flail away…lol

[Pytt]

I hardly remember when I was a newbie, thinking about it. But the old ones probably sees me like a newbie yet.. I really don't care.
I don't think I started any threads when I had just got here. But I didn't post much the first one and a halfs months of my time here..
But anyway, enough about me.. ;)

I don't think the board is cruel to newbies. But maybe the older mooters have a little advantage on the newbies?
Be nice with the new ones, so the stick around, I'll say :)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, I look at it like this: we all gotta start some where, and newbies become oldies. And, we were all newbies once.

[Elemmírë]

Oh. I had a related question earlier, which is even more off topic now, but oh well... :o

EB mentioned the words "Newbie Friendly" having been added to her thread's title... Now, why does this get added to some and not to others?

[EarthBound]

EB mentioned the words "Newbie Friendly" having been added to her thread's title... Now, why does this get added to some and not to others?


I bet it is to draw off the newbies and corral them away from the more experienced herd thus not upsetting their "sensitivities" concerning repetitive posts & threads....very clever :evil:



Just joking.....I hope :confused:

[azalea]

Just to respond to that last question:
IIRC, several months ago we were trying to find ways to make the board friendly to all, including newbies, while still maintaining a high level of quality threads.

It was suggested that the term "newbie-friendly" thread be added to certain thread titles either
1. started by newbies on topics that have been covered before (to prevent a bunch of members coming in and saying "Nyah, this is going to be closed, we've talked about this so many times, I can't believe you started this annoying and redundant thread!") *(see edit)
or
2. to topics that all newbies might want to reply to as a way of posting their opinions on popular topics that don't necessarily have a lot of converstation value (such as "favorite hobbit," etc., threads, or "where would you like to visit in ME," stuff like that. That way they can post in a "safe environment" while getting to know the board, rather than having to lurk or what have you.

Hope that makes sense. :)

*Edit: of course, redundant threads will still be closed, but this just allows the mods some latitude in making a judgement call regarding whether the topic has been covered too recently or not.

[me9996]

Let me just say this: first, with the new vbulletin, deleted posts are not lost. All mods can see them still and the reasons given for their deletion. Deleted posts can be restored at anytime.

I find the starting of this thread to be totally out of line, however, I am not unwilling to discuss the issue, but as for Entmoot, no, it is not a free country.

I made a moderating call and deleted posts at my descretion which is reserved to the rights of the staff. You do not have to agree with it, but it would be nice if you appreciated the job we do.
Er... What kind of government does entmoot have then?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

autocracy ;)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Er... What kind of government does entmoot have then?Entmoot is a dictatorship. :p

[Nurvingiel]

We're living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy that uses the working class-
Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.
Well that's what it's all about!
Please, please good people. I am in haste!
[/constitutional peasant]

:D

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

who is your lord, who lives in yonder castle

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

Er... What kind of government does entmoot have then?

I believe this type of rule would be best described as an Oligarchy. An Oligarchy of the Mooters!
Revolt! Let us begin the Mooting Revolution! hehe.

[hectorberlioz]

I believe this type of rule would be best described as an Oligarchy. An Oligarchy of the Mooters!
Revolt! Let us begin the Mooting Revolution! hehe.
It isnt as easy as that! Believe me, as a powerless President I should know! These mods are so Hieriarchialiological, you can't step outside the castle without bieng whipped to a pulp, a little pulp. really, have you ever seen a mooter willingly quit the moot sucessfully? Nope.

[Nurvingiel]

Actually yeah, but let's not go there.

Does anyone else find it ironic that this thread is off topic? :D

[hectorberlioz]

Actually yeah, but let's not go there.

Does anyone else find it ironic that this thread is off topic? :D

I this thread WAS about off-topicness... ;)

[brownjenkins]

Er... What kind of government does entmoot have then?

a sometimes-enlightened monarchy ;)

[Rían]

a government of well-meaning but imperfect people who work here without pay :)

[brownjenkins]

a government of well-meaning but imperfect people who work here without pay :)

too true... happy april fools :p