Balrogs

[Beregond]

Is there more than 1 Balrog in middle earth or is the one in moria the only one :confused:

[ItalianLegolas]

maybe there are more then 1 at the time of the War of the Ring, I'm not sure if Tolkien ever mentions whether there are any more in Middle-Earth, it might be in the Appendices somewhere...

[Radagast The Brown]

I'd say that probably he was the o nly one left. There weren't many Balrogs in the First Age, and most of them were killed in the War of Wrath (not sure about the name. It's my translation. I refer to the last war in the first age).

I don't tihnk Tolkien said if it was or wasn't, but haven't read many books so...

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

It was the War of the Wrath Rad.
Apparntly there was only about 7 in the 1st age and as RtB said, most were destroyed in the War of the Wrath and Gothmog was killed in the siege of Gondolin.

[ItalianLegolas]

only 7 Balrogs huh? I never counted them, but I always assumed there would be more...

[Radagast The Brown]

only 7 Balrogs huh? I never counted them, but I always assumed there would be more...Yeah, it looks like there are hundreds in the Silmarillion, the way it's described. But Tolkien changed his mind after he got older. There are many things that are wrong in the Silmarillion - that Tolkien changed later on.

[ItalianLegolas]

don't have to tell me that twice...

[Attalus]

It's one of many reasons I hesitate to recommend the Sil77 to newbies.

[ItalianLegolas]

if there were a lot of balrogs at the time of the War of the Ring, then Sauron probably woudl have won

[Pytt]

If the Balrogs would have helped Sauron. and I don't know that. Like tha balrog in Moria, I thionk he stayed of his own choice and if Sauron had spoken to him, I think the balrog was his own master. and I think the others could have turned out that way too. If Sauron had promised them land for themselvs, maybe they would have helped him.
and if that case, yes I think Sauron would have won.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

It would not have made any differance to who won, unless you had Balrogs standing guard of Sammath Nuar or Cirith Ungol. Sauron was defeated because of the destruction of the Ring, not because of victory on the Pelennor.

[ItalianLegolas]

good point

[Pytt]

It would not have made any differance to who won, unless you had Balrogs standing guard of Sammath Nuar or Cirith Ungol. Sauron was defeated because of the destruction of the Ring, not because of victory on the Pelennor.

yeah, I thought about that afterwards.... :o

[Twista]

Im sure in the Sil it says all were vanquished bar one that fled deep into the mountains..

of course it could be my mind playing tricks.. someone confirm?

[Elemmírë]

From the Silm:

The Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth...

From memory, that's pretty good, Twista. ;)

Doesn't give an exact number, but it can't be that many. I've seen the number 7 given for the total number of Balrogs, but I can't remember where. I don't think I saw it in any of the books I've read so far...

You know, if Balrog/s had come to help Sauron, Sauron himself would have most likely still lost, but you'd still have at least one Balrog to deal with afterwards...

And I don't see any Fëanors/Fingolfins/Fingons/Echthelions/Glorfindels around... Well, scratch the Glorfindel, but still... :p

[Twista]

Quite proud of myself then :)

Happy 1000th by the way...

[Elemmírë]

Thank you! :)

I wonder though... does anyone know where the number seven comes from? I bet its in HoME 12 (must... have... book...) I hope it is... otherwise I have no excuse for not remembering where I read it... or not reading it in the actual material... :o

[Attalus]

I think that I saw the number seven in the Letters.

[Elemmírë]

Hm. I couldn't find it in the Letters myself (Balrog only had three entries in the index, and none discussed the numbers).
I found the number 1000 in The Shaping of Middle-earth! :eek: Somehow I think that number was later changed... :p
It's probably in the Peoples of Middle Earth. Everything that I'm looking for and can't find seems to end up being in that book. :rolleyes: I'll look it up again as soon as I can order that book... :)

[me9996]

Is there more than 1 Balrog in middle earth or is the one in moria the only one :confused:
There are more, they were the minions of Morgoth (Read the silmarilion)

P.S.
Does anyone else here realy not like the 90 second rule?

[Elemmírë]

There are more, they were the minions of Morgoth (Read the silmarilion)

P.S.
Does anyone else here realy not like the 90 second rule?

Wow, you read that book pretty quickly. Still can't spell it, though. :p

The 90 second rule sucks. :(

[me9996]

if there were a lot of balrogs at the time of the War of the Ring, then Sauron probably woudl have won
Ney, they would not help souron (I think there's a tread on this)

[me9996]

Wow, you read that book pretty quickly. Still can't spell it, though. :p

The 90 second rule sucks. :(

I have not finished, but I made it far enouph to read about Morgoth Vs. What's-her-name the spider.

P.S.
90 second rule again! :mad:

[Elemmírë]

I have not finished, but I made it far enouph to read about Morgoth Vs. What's-her-name the spider.

P.S.
90 second rule again! :mad:

That's not too bad, actually. Ungoliant. :)

Or me, according to SGH. :D

(DOWN WITH THE 90 SECOND RULE!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad: )

[Pytt]

Yes, for Someones sake, can't we get rid of that 90 sec rule? it's just annoying. I may see the point, but 90 sec for someones sake! reduce it to 30, or 20 and I will see a point.

[Earniel]

Stop whining about the 90 second rule already, it's not going to be dumped any time soon. And what does it have to do with balrogs anyway? :p

[Elemmírë]

Sorry, Eärniel. :p

Ney, they would not help souron (I think there's a tread on this)

Whyever not?

And why is this in the LOTR forum...? Seems like a ME question now... :D

[Twista]

Sauron is rubbish...

I suppose he doesnt have the control that Morgoth had, after all, he created them, he was there father.

[Elemmírë]

Sauron is rubbish...

I suppose he doesnt have the control that Morgoth had, after all, he created them, he was there father.

"For of the Maiar many were drawn to his splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into his darkness; and others he corrupted afterwards to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. Dreadful among these spirits were the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror."
~The Silm, Valaquenta, of the Enemies

So, it's not quite accurate that Morgoth actually created or was father to them. Still, though, you're right in that he was their master rather than Sauron.

Sauron is, however, named second after Morgoth, so I'm not completely sure that any remaining Balrogs would refuse to serve him.

[Radagast The Brown]

Morgoth didn't create the Balrogs.

I don't tihnk the Balrogs would refuse.. they can't do much by themselves alone, Sauron is stronger, and they were under him (as mentioned, Sauron was 2nd to Morgoth).