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Nurvingiel
01-03-2005, 12:38 PM
Post which two characters you think are foils, and why.

A character foil is two characters who are seeming opposites. This usually applies only to the main character, but I thought it would be interesting to look at all the foils in the Harry Potter books.

Good definition:
A character foil is a character whose traits are in direct contrast to those of the principal character. The foil therefore highlights the traits of the protagonist. The foil is usually a minor character, although if there are two protagonists, they may be foils of each other.Definition from literary elements (http://www.cas.usf.edu/lis/lis6585/class/litelem.html).

First of all, I think Voldemort and Professor Dumbledore are the most clear foils in the series. Voldemort embodies all that is cruel, malicious, and evil, while Dumbledore is kind-hearted, and represents good. They are pretty much equal in terms of power, they both have a group of loyal followers - the Death Eaters versus the Order of the Phoenix.

Like Voldemort and Dumbledore are quite similar and yet opposite, the Death Eaters and the Order embody the same qualities as their leaders. The Death Eaters are either cruel or evil people who desire power above all else, or they are weaker wizards forced or tricked into membership. The members of the Order joined voluntarily, and are brave people who will make extreme sacrifces to fight for freedom and good.

Many argue that Harry and Voldemort are foils. However, I think my arguments above that it is V. and Dumbledore are much more compelling, however, I welcome debate.

So who is Harry's foil, you ask? Well, I think it is Draco Malfoy.

Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy are similar enough (as Dumbledore and Voldemort are) to make their differences meaningful. They are both Slytherin potentials, and reasonably good students. However, while Draco chose Slytherin, Harry chose Gryffindor. Harry is brave, and Malfoy is a coward and a tool. Harry has trouble in the dating department, while Malfoy is popular with the Slytherin girls. Harry comes by his Quidditch position through natural talent, and Malfoy (even though he doesn't stink) bought his way on to the team. They each have two best friends, though like Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle are tools. Like Harry, Ron and Hermione are both smart, brave individuals who think for themselves.

Harry and Malfoy are the perfect character foils, and not just because they hate each other's guts.

Who else do you think are foils?

Minielin
01-03-2005, 02:16 PM
Whee, I'm so glad you ended up making this thread! :D

First of all, I think Voldemort and Professor Dumbledore are the most clear foils in the series. Another point that you mentioned but didn't elaborate on is that they are both commonly acknowledged to be the most powerful wizards of their time (if not of all time). Voldemort is freely called "the most evil wizard of all time", whereas Dumbledore, obviously, sets himself against Voldemort.

sirigorn
01-04-2005, 12:14 AM
I agree, Dumbledore and Voldemort seem to be clear foils to me. And I agree with you about Harry and Draco as well, that was what immediatly popped to mind.

Seems a bit strange, but the twins and Percy seem to be foils to me, too. Obviously they come from the same background, being brothers, but they ended up totally different. While they're all VERY ambitious, the twins know to put family before work and are immensly loyal. Percy, however, puts work first and even needs to be reminded that "Christmas is a time for family."- by the twins, no less. Percy is a total rule freak, and the twins are, well, not. And they would by no means want to be a prefect, yet that is Percy's greatest achievement. Unless that was becoming Head Boy.

Minielin
01-04-2005, 08:03 AM
Seems a bit strange, but the twins and Percy seem to be foils to me, too. I agree with you. It's probably not a major point, but they're also described as having sort of opposite body types (Percy=gangly, Fred & George=stocky)

inked
01-05-2005, 10:24 AM
Well, I think HP and Voldemort are foils, not D and V. D's foil is more like to be the Minister of Magic. Note that D taught both V and H. But the very first time we meet H we find that he has bested V. So from intro to current OotP, its H vs V. We have only one confrontation between D and V, and NOTE that it was H who again beat V, not D!

Nurvingiel
01-05-2005, 12:33 PM
Actually in book five, Dumbledore was the one Voldemort feared, not Harry. However, you do make good points.

Dumbledore and Fudge are excellent foils as well. I think it's possible for there to be more than one in a book.

Minielin
01-05-2005, 02:59 PM
Well, I think HP and Voldemort are foils, not D and V. D's foil is more like to be the Minister of Magic. Note that D taught both V and H. But the very first time we meet H we find that he has bested V. So from intro to current OotP, its H vs V. We have only one confrontation between D and V, and NOTE that it was H who again beat V, not D! Well, are we discussing antagonism or foils? Maybe I'm mistaken, but I believe that foil means someone who serves as a direct contrast (or opposite) to another. What you are saying points out (correctly, I think) that Harry and Voldemort are each other's nemeses, but in terms of character, Voldemort and Dumbledore seem to me to be more clearly defined foils.

D's foil is more like to be the Minister of Magic. *blink* How so? I'm intrigued; can you elaborate a little more?

inked
01-05-2005, 05:41 PM
Fudge is the opposite in characteristics of Dumbledore, if you reflect on it. There is antagonism between Voldemort and all the good guys as well, but the deliberate pairing of V and H is quite daring. We know that V is Tom Riddle gone bad, and since evil is monotonous in is eventuation, JKR daringly shows us the development of the GOOD in HP.

In thier foil-ish way, Dumbledore is an achieved "good guy" who successfully defeated Grindewald, and Fudge is a self-oriented blighter who refused to see and deal with a retuned V.

Need I say more? :D

Lizra
01-05-2005, 06:09 PM
Oh...come on! Say more! :p ;) How about Hermione and Luna...or are they just "different"?

inked
01-05-2005, 10:39 PM
Lizra,

Hermione and Luna are foils as well. Hermione is virtually all intellect and logic and rationality. Luna is intuitive, unaffected by rational thought, and other-worldly. They are foils!

How much more do you want? :p

Lizra
01-05-2005, 11:13 PM
Oh geez! :rolleyes: ;) Don't get me started Inky-poo! :p

Minielin
01-06-2005, 05:25 PM
Hermione and Luna are foils as well. I' agree completely with that.

Telcontar_Dunedain
01-07-2005, 12:55 PM
How about Arthur Weasley and Lucius Malfoy. Both are pure blood wizards, but A is very interested in Muggles whereas L hates them and everything to do with them. A is a member of the OotP and L is a Death Eater. Both have sons attending Hogwarts who also hate each other.

Minielin
01-07-2005, 05:28 PM
How about Arthur Weasley and Lucius Malfoy. Ooh, yes... that didn't occur to me but it's definitely there...

Lizra
01-07-2005, 05:52 PM
I keep thinking of the Weasley twins...being so funny and fuul of humour and life...who are they foils to?

Minielin
01-07-2005, 05:53 PM
I keep thinking of the Weasley twins...being so funny and fuul of humour and life...who are they foil's to? Percy? (see above)

ethuiliel
01-08-2005, 12:40 AM
Oh, yeah. Arthur and Lucius... that's a true foil, right there. They completely loathe each other. Much like Dumbledore and Voldemort, actually.

EDIT: Whoopsies, posted as Ethi. This is Sirigorn, by the way. :rolleyes:

inked
01-09-2005, 07:13 PM
Crabbe / Goyle vs Hermione / Ron

Hagrid vs Filch

:D

Lizra
01-09-2005, 09:55 PM
Oh man! That actor that plays Filch in the movies is creepy GREAT! "Love him!".... in all his creepy glory! :D

Katt_knome_hobbit
01-10-2005, 07:29 PM
Crabbe / Goyle vs Hermione / Ron

Hagrid vs Filch

:D

Nah, Crabbe/Goyle vs Nevil/Ginny. Its the bullies vs the bullied syndrome.

Anyway, Harry's very obvious foil is Draco because Draco wants to become a Death Eater and Harry wants to become an Auror for the Order of the Pheonix.

But on a very philisophical level, Harry's foil is himself, because one part of him wants to be the hero, another wants to be normal, and a deep dark one wants to be evil. It is the same thing with every teenager in real life, and it wouldn't be a good story without the inner turmoil.

moop

Manveru
01-10-2005, 09:34 PM
how bout bagman and crouch?

Minielin
01-10-2005, 10:07 PM
Nah, Crabbe/Goyle vs Nevil/Ginny. Its the bullies vs the bullied syndrome. When is Ginny bullied (more than others)? Even the twins respect her, and that's saying something. ;)

But on a very philisophical level, Harry's foil is himself, because one part of him wants to be the hero, another wants to be normal, and a deep dark one wants to be evil. What part in him wants to be evil exactly any more than any of the rest of us? You raise a good point about inner turmoil, but I'm not buying it as literary character foils specifically without more evidence...

how bout bagman and crouch? Ooh, yes.

Embladyne
01-14-2005, 11:26 PM
Aunt Petunia/Uncle Vernon and Molly Weasley/Arthur Weasley

Basically, I think they represent different family situations...and the role that parents have in influencing them.

Also...in the family theme

Petunia and Lily