What is the silmarillion?

[me9996]

I've never read, it but I am considering geting it so I need help disideing whether to get it or not.

I need help!

[brownjenkins]

basically a prequel of sorts... much more "standard mythology" then LoTR... creation myths and such, and the early history of elves and men over a long period of time and through different character's stories

i can't see any reason not to read it, unless you really only like tight plot line character-type stories... the sil is more like reading a collection of norse or greek mythology

[Pytt]

it can be difficult, at least in the beginning, and there are a hell lot of names..
but it is great when you have finished abiut the valar and that sort. I recommend it, it is almost as good as LoTR, and some of the stories are atleast as great.

[Manveru]

its alot like reading a history textbook or something. a really good textbook. theres no narritives like in LotR, but the stories are still amazing.

[Lefty Scaevola]

30 or so years before LoTR, JRRT was writing a set of stories about Elves, Orcs, Demi-gods (which late were rewritten to be the Valar), etc set in acinet Britain. He later began to rewrite them set in a 'Middle earth'. After he wrote the Hobbit and Lotr, he started rewriting them again to be the prior events of the 'Middle Earth' that the Hobbit and LoTR were in. The published Silmerillion, only partly finished by JRRT and partly by his Son, and partly unfinished, has three main parts: The early chapters are about the creation of Ea, and Arda, and war of the Valar against Melkor; The main part is the War of the Noldor, Sindar, and Edain, againster Melkor/Morgoth, The last part is some material about Numenor and the Making of the great rings. It is a set of related short stories, rather than a novel.

[Beren3000]

After all that has been said, I only have two words to add:
READ IT!

[Artanis]

After all that has been said, I only have two words to add:
READ IT!I second that. :D

[ItalianLegolas]

it is basically the mythology of middle-earth and arda and valinor, and the beginnings of sauron and the Ainur, logically, you should read the Silmarillion, then the Hobbit, then LoTR

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

trust me, it's better than lotr

[Andúril]

Repost, but what the hell.

The Silmarillan
By Andúril

I like the Silmarillian because it is nice I read it a while a-go and it took a long time because it was hard at first and there are lots of charachters and it is quite complex and confusing and it reads like my ensyclopaedia and I finally got through it and smiled and put it down and then I read the Lord of the Ring and I got new insites into who was everybuddy was and there historys and liniage and I think the Silmarilian is wonderful and brilliant and excellent and darn cool and it also has a lot of nice stuff inside like all about how the universe was created and the Vallar and Mayar and the dark lord Sauron and also Melkor and morgoth and Ingwe and all the types of Elfs and strange creatures like ungoliants and I would recommend this book to anyone who liked the Lord of the Ring and also the Hoppit but if you have only read the Hoppit then I advise you to go read the Lord of the Rings first before the Silmarrilan also you might want to practise reading your encuclopaedia before starting so that you won't be de-terred

The End

[Sister Golden Hair]

it is basically the mythology of middle-earth and arda and valinor, and the beginnings of sauron and the Ainur, logically, you should read the Silmarillion, then the Hobbit, then LoTRMost have found it to be a more fulfilling experience to read LotRs first, then, the Sil, then LotRs again. Also, Tolkien followers from the 50's, 60's and early 70's had already read LotRs because the Sil had not yet been published. So many believe it better to read the books in the order of publication as compared to the order of the ages of Middle-earth. :)

[Manveru]

ya i think the Sil would be kinda boring if u havent read LotR first

[ItalianLegolas]

well chronologically, it would make sense to read the sil first

[Valandil]

When I finally got around to reading it, I did it just before a re-read of 'The Hobbit' and LOTR. That was kind of nice, because it was still fresh in my mind when I read LOTR, so I understood all the historical references there.

You should definitely read LOTR first if you haven't read either it or 'The Silmarillion' (and 'The Hobbit' first of all, of course). But it can be very good to read the three chronologically, if it's a re-read for the second two. :)

[Elemmírë]

its alot like reading a history textbook or something. a really good textbook. theres no narritives like in LotR, but the stories are still amazing.

A really, really, really, really, REALLY good textbook. :p

But like Manveru also said, it wouldn't make any sense at all without having already read LotR.

Honestly, me9996, you really should read it. :)

[Beregond]

I have been trying to buy the silmarillion for some time now but cannot find it any where. From what i can it is a bit like the history of middle earth. Am i right and can some one give me the jist of what is in it.

[ItalianLegolas]

its more like the mythology of middle-earth, about gods and the beginning of the races

[ItalianLegolas]

definitly read it

[Beregond]

its more like the mythology of middle-earth, about gods and the beginning of the races
Does it have anything about numenor in it

[Minielin]

Does it have anything about numenor in it Yes. :p

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Have a look here. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0618391118/qid=1105132739/sr=2-2/ref=pd_ka_b_2_2/102-6055710-9681723)

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

The Silmarillion is a book about the history/mythology of Middle-Earth and Valinor as told by the elves. The book goes over subjects like the beggining of the world, the Valar, the history of the Elves in Valinor and Beleriand. It also goes over men and Numenore but not as much as Unfinished Tales, so if your looking for Numenorean history UT is the way to go.

[ItalianLegolas]

UT also has a lot of stuff about the Huor and Hurin and Tour and Turin and stuff like that, its an all-around good book, and so is the sil

[Radagast The Brown]

A really, really, really, really, REALLY good textbook. :p

But like Manveru also said, it wouldn't make any sense at all without having already read LotR.

Honestly, me9996, you really should read it. :)I agree! It's the best book written by Tolkien in my opinion. I would also agree that the books should not be read chronologically, as it would make confusion in the Sil... and maybe even make you not want to read any other books - because you wouldn't enjoy it.

[Attalus]

I would say, rather, read Unfinished Tales and the Letters before embarking on the Sil77.

[Earniel]

Thread merged with the 'I need help' thread since they have the same topic.

[ItalianLegolas]

wait a minute? what are the Letters? :confused:

[Attalus]

wait a minute? what are the Letters? :confused:
Shorthand for The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, edited by Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien.

[ItalianLegolas]

so is it like all the letters that he wrote to people or something? whats so great about that?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I haven't read it yet but I think it is Letters he wrote to people regarding Middle-Earth.

[Pytt]

though I have not read them, I think the Letters answers alot of questions asked by people to Tolkien, and by Tolkien himself. I will definetly read them sometimes, beacus I think I can learn much from it.

[Attalus]

so is it like all the letters that he wrote to people or something? whats so great about that?The Letters discuss the writing of the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings and also answer many, many questions that readers wrote to JRRT about the Legendarium, the LotR most prominently. It contains passages such as this: When Sauron was aware of the siezure of the Ring his one hope was in its power: that the claimant would be unable to relinquish it until Sauron was able to deal with him. Frodo too was then probably, if not attacked, would have had to take the same way [as Gollum - A.]: cast himself with the Ring into the abyss. If not, he would have completely failed. It is an interesting problem: how Sauron would have acted or the claimant have reisited. Sauron sent at once the Ringwraiths. They were naturally fully instructed, and in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring. The wearer would not be invisible to them, but the reverse; and the more vulnerable to their weapons. But the situation was now different to that under Weathertop, where Frodo acted only in fear, and wished to use (in vain) the Ring's subsidiary power of conferring invisibility. He had grown since then. Would they have been immune from its power if he claimed it as an instrument of power and domination?
Not wholly. I do not think they could have attacked him with violence, nor laid hold of him or made him captive; they would have obeyed or feigned to obey any minor commands of his that did not interfere with their errand - laid upon them by Sauron, who still though their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills. That errand was to remove Frodo from the Crack. Once he had lost the power or opportunity to destroy the Ring, the end could not be in doubt - saving help from outside, which was hardly even remotely possible. This is real "inside stuff" and the best look that we get into JRRT's mind, at least the part of it that concerned Middle-earth. They are essential.

[ItalianLegolas]

cool, i'll have to remeber to get that...

[Manveru]

I would say, rather, read Unfinished Tales and the Letters before embarking on the Sil77.

i would read the Sil b4 UT, mainly bcuz UT expands on some stuff in the Sil. The Narn isnt even finsihed, its missing the whole Nargothrond section.

[Embladyne]

I'm re-reading the Silm, and the Ainulindale gives me shivers, :) every time I read it, it's that good. It's like reading the begining of John, from the bible, "in the begining was the word...." I'm not christian, but I really like reading religious and mythological texts....
This time, as I was reading the Silm, I was at home, and had checked out UT from the library, so I was going between the Silm, UT, and BoLT (I only have the first one for right now) for some of the stories. It was an interesting way to do it, kinda like how I used to read novels in middle school. Anyway, go out and find the book. A used book store is a good place to start.

[ItalianLegolas]

what is BoLT?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

what is BoLT?
Book of Lost Tales
(Vols 1 & 2 of HoME)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Just for the record. Here is a list of books- Middle-earth related. If you can think of any others, post them.

The Hobbit

The Lord of the Rings
The Fellowship of the Ring
The Two Towers
The Return of the King

The Silmarillion
Unfinished Tales

The Letters of Tolkien

The Histories of Middle-earth series

1. The Book of Lost Tales I
2. The Book of Lost Tales II
3. The Lays of Beleriand
4. The Shaping of Middle-earth
The Quenta, The Ambarkanta, and The Annals
5. The Lost Road and Other Writings
6. The Return of the Shadow
The history of the Lord of the Rings-Part I
7. The Treason of Isengard
The history of the Lord of the Rings-Part II
8. The War of the Ring
The history of the Lord of the Rings-Part III
9. Sauron Defeated
The end of the Third Age, including the History of the Lord of the
Rings-Part IV
10. Morgoth's Ring
The Later Silmarillion-Part I
11. War of the Jewels
The Later Silmarillion-Part II
12. The People of Middle-Earth

[Attalus]

I would add The Tolkien Reader,, The Monsters and the Critics: The Essays of J.R.R. Tolkien, and Tree and Leaf.

[me9996]

Thanks for telling me, but now I have it so you can stop telling me! :D

[Elemmírë]

Hey, can someone tell me what exactly is in HoME 12? It's the only one I haven't been able to find in a library... :(

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

The Peoples of Middle-earth.

[Maerbenn]

Hey, can someone tell me what exactly is in HoME 12? It's the only one I haven't been able to find in a library... :(How about a scan of the Table of Contents?

http://lookinside2-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35leqohzXoYwUTcOPFyHcdr817iVpdL/LHct/2qP++wA5BaBsYontz5r7i
http://lookinside2-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35leqohzXoYwUTcOPFyHcdr817FxkqHlO1fdKGj62u16 SKWN5IXQRvuYMB

[Lenya]

Thanks for telling me, but now I have it so you can stop telling me! :D

d'you mean you got Silm? If so, that's great! It's by far the best book Tolkein has ever written :p

[Elemmírë]

The Peoples of Middle-earth.

ha ha ha. Show off. :p

Thank you, Maerbenn. :) You're more helpful than this clown. :p

I concur, Lenya. :)

[Rían]

HoME12 (PoME) is fabulous! Worth getting for the Shibboleth of Fëanor alone!

[Elemmírë]

The Shibboleth. That's what I want. :p

I'll have my friend order it as soon as possible (I'm beginning to amass a collection... just bought the Letters... :p )

So, RÃ*an, I've heard a bit about the Shibboleth. What exactly is it?

[ItalianLegolas]

It sounds like another language or something, Shibboleth??

[Elemmírë]

I looked it up after I found out about it, it's Hebrew and means: "A word or pronunciation that distinguishes people of one group or class from those of another."

Oh, RÃ*an... :p

[ItalianLegolas]

me don't get it

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i thought it sounded Yiddish, and i was right.

[Rían]

Fascinating word - "Shibboleth" is actually a Hebrew word, apparently meaning "stream" (of water) - I just asked Rad about it and am waiting to hear back (I just heard from him - he said it means "ear", like ear of grain! So much for my dictionary! :eek: ). But the larger meaning, and the meaning of the word in "The Shibboleth of Fëanor", is a test word to tell what region a person is from, depending upon how they pronounce it.

In the story in the Bible, the men of Gilead were fighting the men of Ephraim, and the Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan river opposite Ephraim. And when the fugitives from Ephraim tried to cross the river to escape, the Gileadites would ask them if they were from Ephraim. If they said, "No," then they were asked to say, "Shibboleth". If they were really from Ephraim (and they were lying about it), they would say "Sibboleth", because they couldn't pronounce the "sh" sound correctly, and they would get killed! Totally Monty-Python-esq! So a "shibboleth" is a test word or a password, or even a phrase, custom, etc. distinctive of a particular class, group, etc.

So the Shibboleth of Fëanor is about the "s" vs. the "thorn" sound of the "s" (the Þ sound, which is kind of a soft "th"). MÃ*riel, Fëanor's mother, preferred the Þ sound and stuck to it, even when the Noldor switched to the s sound. Indis, Finwë's second wife, switched to the s sound in loyalty to Finwë, even though her people used the Þ sound, and Fëanor took this (wrongly) as a slight to MÃ*riel. Anyway, a fascinating discussion of language and people!

See, El, I wasn't pullin' your leg! It just took me a while to type this in!

[ItalianLegolas]

i didn't understand any of that. but thats okay

[Rían]

Just read it again, Italianlegolas. It looks like you're from the US. It's like if you went to Germany and they asked you to say "Ich", you would have trouble with the German "ch" sound (made in the back of the throat), which is a non-American-English sound. They could tell you were not a German by having you try to say only one word - "ich". So that would be a Shibboleth.

[Elemmírë]

Fascinating word - "Shibboleth" is actually a Hebrew word, apparently meaning "stream" (of water) - I just asked Rad about it and am waiting to hear back (I just heard from him - he said it means "ear", like ear of grain! So much for my dictionary! :eek: ). But the larger meaning, and the meaning of the word in "The Shibboleth of Fëanor", is a test word to tell what region a person is from, depending upon how they pronounce it.

In the story in the Bible, the men of Gilead were fighting the men of Ephraim, and the Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan river opposite Ephraim. And when the fugitives from Ephraim tried to cross the river to escape, the Gileadites would ask them if they were from Ephraim. If they said, "No," then they were asked to say, "Shibboleth". If they were really from Ephraim (and they were lying about it), they would say "Sibboleth", because they couldn't pronounce the "sh" sound correctly, and they would get killed! Totally Monty-Python-esq! So a "shibboleth" is a test word or a password, or even a phrase, custom, etc. distinctive of a particular class, group, etc.

So the Shibboleth of Fëanor is about the "s" vs. the "thorn" sound of the "s" (the Þ sound, which is kind of a soft "th"). MÃ*riel, Fëanor's mother, preferred the Þ sound and stuck to it, even when the Noldor switched to the s sound. Indis, Finwë's second wife, switched to the s sound in loyalty to Finwë, even though her people used the Þ sound, and Fëanor took this (wrongly) as a slight to MÃ*riel. Anyway, a fascinating discussion of language and people!

See, El, I wasn't pullin' your leg! It just took me a while to type this in!

Fascinating. :cool: And you're right, that did sound kind of Monty Python-esque! :D

So, the Shibboleth is about language, then? *getting more interested by the minute* I'm assuming it's written in essay format (opposed to, say, something character driven like the Athrabeth). I heard, but I'm not sure, that somewhere in the PoME (most likely the Shibboleth) were more character descriptions... such as those of the Fëanorions...)

And poor Indis. :( That really was a mess, wasn't it? :(

[Valandil]

In the story in the Bible, the men of Gilead were fighting the men of Ephraim, and the Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan river opposite Ephraim. And when the fugitives from Ephraim tried to cross the river to escape, the Gileadites would ask them if they were from Ephraim. If they said, "No," then they were asked to say, "Shibboleth". If they were really from Ephraim (and they were lying about it), they would say "Sibboleth", because they couldn't pronounce the "sh" sound correctly, and they would get killed!..

Yes - some interesting Bible trivia. In fact, they wiped them out so badly, there were just a few hundred of their men left - and then they regretted practically annihilating one of their own tribes! Now, they had all sworn not to give their daughters to be one of their wives, but they finally figured out that to get wives for them, they could... well, maybe you should just read it - along toward the very end of the Book of Judges.

Rian - I didn't check yet, but WAS it the Ephraimites? I was thinking the Benjamites... but I COULD be wrong. :p

[ItalianLegolas]

Just read it again, Italianlegolas. It looks like you're from the US. It's like if you went to Germany and they asked you to say "Ich", you would have trouble with the German "ch" sound (made in the back of the throat), which is a non-American-English sound. They could tell you were not a German by having you try to say only one word - "ich". So that would be a Shibboleth.


oh I get it now, but I can say "Ich" as in "Ich Will"

[Rían]

Italian - That's good that you can, but a lot of people can't manage the gutteral "ch" sound. But I think you get the idea.

I took German for 2 years with a teacher that took a lot of pains with our accent. Also, I'm good at math and music, and those things tend to go with language. So my crowning glory moment in languages was when I was in Switzerland, and I greeted a storekeeper in German, and she thought I was German!! *beams with pride*

Val - yes, it's the Ephs. - got my trusty NASB right here *pats her trusty Bible* Doesn't that remind you of the Monty Python bridge scene a little? :D

El - it is SUCH a cool story - one of my two favorites in the HoME books (the other being the Athrabeth). It's about language, but it's in the format of someone explaining how the language changed and its effects on the people, esp. the family of Finwë, and has lots of fascinating little tidbits, like how Fëanor "accidentally" killed his youngest son! :eek: . It has lots of info on names, and how names in Quenya were converted to Sindarin, and lots of other linguistic info put into fascinating little character sketches.

[Rían]

Now, they had all sworn not to give their daughters to be one of their wives, but they finally figured out that to get wives for them, they could... well, maybe you should just read it - along toward the very end of the Book of Judges. The dangers of dancing! :eek: ;)

THAT was the Bens, the other was the Ephs.

[Elemmírë]

Also, I'm good at math and music, and those things tend to go with language.

Hey, I never thought of that... Hm, I guess it's true with me too...


El - it is SUCH a cool story - one of my two favorites in the HoME books (the other being the Athrabeth). It's about language, but it's in the format of someone explaining how the language changed and its effects on the people, esp. the family of Finwë, and has lots of fascinating little tidbits, like how Fëanor "accidentally" killed his youngest son! :eek: . It has lots of info on names, and how names in Quenya were converted to Sindarin, and lots of other linguistic info put into fascinating little character sketches.

That's it. I'm getting it as soon as possible. :evil:

The Athrabeth is certainly my favourite. So far, at least. :)

[Valandil]

THAT was the Bens, the other was the Ephs.

Yes - I checked soon after I posted that, but couldn't get back on until now. That's right - your's was the one with the Ephraimites - from chapter 12 and the troubled times of Jephthah. Mine was later - when things had gone even further downhill.

[me9996]

d'you mean you got Silm? If so, that's great! It's by far the best book Tolkein has ever written :p
Yes, I gess now this is a place to say how to get the "Slim" as some call it.

[Elemmírë]

The "Slim"? :rolleyes: I've heard Sil and Silm...

I guess we're all just lazy! :p

[me9996]

The "Slim"? :rolleyes: I've heard Sil and Silm...

I guess we're all just lazy! :p
Yup :rolleyes:

The slims fill name is hard to spell!

[Elemmírë]

Not if you're Quenya obsessed... ;) :D

I'd tell you how I remember, but I don't think it would make much sense... :confused:

Can you remember Silmaril itself?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

well, I call it 'Ainulandalie' 'Valaquenta' 'Quenta Silmarrillion' 'Akhallabeth' & 'Of the Rings of Power & The Third Age', not plain old Silmarillion :p



:D

[Elemmírë]

well, I call it 'Ainulandalie' 'Valaquenta' 'Quenta Silmarrillion' 'Akhallabeth' & 'Of the Rings of Power & The Third Age', not plain old Silmarillion :p

:D

Don't you mean "Of teh Rinsg of Powre & hte Tihrd Age?

You spelt almost everything else wrong! :p :D

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Don't you mean "Of teh Rinsg of Powre & hte Tihrd Age?

You spelt almost everything else wrong! :p :D
hey, not my fault, i am a terrible speller and typist!! :p

;)

[Pytt]

and besides, who walks around and knows all those names? I don't even know which is which.

[ItalianLegolas]

I forgive you :p :D

[Elemmírë]

and besides, who walks around and knows all those names? I don't even know which is which.

And with the name Ingoldo! :D The Wise! :p

[Pytt]

Hey, even though I'm pretty wise I don't have to remember all those names, and ceartainly not how to spell them ;)

[me9996]

Not if you're Quenya obsessed... ;) :D

I'd tell you how I remember, but I don't think it would make much sense... :confused:

Can you remember Silmaril itself?
Nope :rolleyes:

P.S.
The 90 second rule is annoying!

[Elemmírë]

Pytt Hey, even though I'm pretty wise I don't have to remember all those names, and ceartainly not how to spell them ;)

Yes, milord. :p

Nope :rolleyes:

P.S.
The 90 second rule is annoying!

Don't I know it.

Alright. Spontaneous Elvish lesson:

From... you guessed it, the Silmarillion:

Sil means "to shine"

Silima is what Fëanor called the substance he used to make the Silmarilli. I suppose it's fairly normal that the second I would get dropped.

Ril means "brilliance"

So, you've got "Silmaril". Now, repeat it every day for a month, and you'll figure out how to say it. :p Or read the book... by the time you're done, once again, you'll know how to say it.

The name "Silmarillion" itself comes from the fact that the full name for Silmaril is Silmarillë. Plural in Quenya is Silmarilli. Add -on- as a genitive plural suffix. Basically makes the word mean "of the Silmarils" Silmarillion.

Add "Quenta" to the beginning, and you've got "History of the Silmarils" or some such thing.

Did I lose you? :confused:

[me9996]

Yes, milord. :p



Don't I know it.

Alright. Spontaneous Elvish lesson:

From... you guessed it, the Silmarillion:

Sil means "to shine"

Silima is what Fëanor called the substance he used to make the Silmarilli. I suppose it's fairly normal that the second I would get dropped.

Ril means "brilliance"

So, you've got "Silmaril". Now, repeat it every day for a month, and you'll figure out how to say it. :p Or read the book... by the time you're done, once again, you'll know how to say it.

The name "Silmarillion" itself comes from the fact that the full name for Silmaril is Silmarillë. Plural in Quenya is Silmarilli. Add -on- as a genitive plural suffix. Basically makes the word mean "of the Silmarils" Silmarillion.

Add "Quenta" to the beginning, and you've got "History of the Silmarils" or some such thing.

Did I lose you? :confused:

Silmaril

Silmaril

Silmaril

Silmaril

Silmaril

Silmaril

Silmaril

No, I can't do it, I was useing copy and paste!

[Elemmírë]

Well, try it without cut and paste! :mad: :p

How about, "sil" and "ril" rhyme. So all you've got between is "ma".

Sil-ma-ril.
Sil-ma-ril.

[me9996]

Well, try it without cut and paste! :mad: :p

How about, "sil" and "ril" rhyme. So all you've got between is "ma".

Sil-ma-ril.
Sil-ma-ril.

Sil-ma-ril
silymerol
sigmomril
silmaril
slimaril

That good?

[Elemmírë]

Sil-ma-ril
silymerol
sigmomril
silmaril
slimaril

That good?

You're just teasing me about my favourite book now. :mad:

Hey? Can anyone tell me why Ancalagon the Black is called that? It seems kind of... paradoxical to me. :o

[me9996]

You're just teasing me about my favourite book now. :mad:

Hey? Can anyone tell me why Ancalagon the Black is called that? It seems kind of... paradoxical to me. :o
Ditto, I think it has something to do with the fact that he never saw the sun.

[Elemmírë]

No, no, no.

What I mean is the name strikes me as odd. It reminds me of Ancalima, which means "exceedingly bright" and the second half of Turgon and Fingon, which is a ridiculously meaningless version of "cáno" for "commander" or something of the sort.

So... Ancalagon the Black.

Who would call a black dragon "exceedingly bright"?

[me9996]

No, no, no.

What I mean is the name strikes me as odd. It reminds me of Ancalima, which means "exceedingly bright" and the second half of Turgon and Fingon, which is a ridiculously meaningless version of "cáno" for "commander" or something of the sort.

So... Ancalagon the Black.

Who would call a black dragon "exceedingly bright"?
Oh... I thought that was that elf who...
Never mind. :rolleyes:

[Radagast The Brown]

Apparently 'Anca' means jaws, and the second part 'alak' mean 'rushing'. Couldn't find any meaning to the 'gon' in the end. :)

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

might be related to gond?
jaws of rushing stone?

[Elemmírë]

Apparently 'Anca' means jaws, and the second part 'alak' mean 'rushing'. Couldn't find any meaning to the 'gon' in the end. :)

And suddenly it makes sense! :D Thanks, RtB. :) I suppose the "on" could just be a masculine ending... Anca-alak-on -> Ancalagon.

Right! Alak, from the same root as "alqua". Heh, someone needs to brush up on her Elvish... :p :o :)

[Pytt]

And I who thought you were superb on elvish languages Ellie ;)

[Elemmírë]

And I who thought you were superb on elvish languages Ellie ;)

Too good for my own good with Quenya, maybe. Trying to analyse Sindarin by using Quenya grammar is officially a bad idea. :D

[Pytt]

oh, yeah. it's two different ones... *lightning strucks my brain* I should have known that. is it so big diffrences between them?

[Elemmírë]

Well... yes.

A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna mÃ*riel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-dÃ*riel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sÃ* aearon!

If my translation is correct, that would become in Quenya something like:

Ai Elentári Tintallë
Rilma silë ve mÃ*ri
Menello alcarë elenion
Haira nómë palan itÃ*rië
alda-fastë endorello
Fanuilos, ten linduvan
falassë sina earo, sÃ*nomë falassë Earo!

Not completely right, though. :( Couldn't find all the words and had to use others instead. :evil: Not sure about the translation I got from the Sindarin anyway... since I couldn't do that myself. Still... you get the idea of what the two look like. :)

[Pytt]

Yeah. I didn't knew the diffrences were that big. But then I see the problem :)

is quenya the one most people learn? btw...

[Elemmírë]

I think people start with Quenya. It's more complete than Sindarin. I'd like to start working on Sindarin eventually too... Then I could switch over to Welsh... :p

[Pytt]

:p Is welsh so difficult then?
Are we moving over to The Language thread now? :rolleyes:

[Elemmírë]

Are we talking about Welsh or about Sindarin and Quenya? I have to know which thread to go to. :p

Me#, how are you coming with the Silm? :evil: :D

[Pytt]

Well, that I don't know exactly :p Maybe we shall say this thread for quenya and sindarin and the other for welsh?
(wow, pretty smart if I shall speak myslef :D :rolleyes:

[me9996]

Silmarilon?
Silmarilion?
Silmariloin?
I can spell silmaril but and can't spell the full name of the slim!

[Elemmírë]

Silmarilon?
Silmarilion?
Silmariloin?
I can spell silmaril but and can't spell the full name of the slim!

In Quenya, the word Silmaril is short for the full version Silmarillë.

Now, learn that version.

Then learn the plural, Silmarilli.

Then, you tack on "-on" to make it genitive. "Silmarillion" Of the Silmarils.

Or... take Silmaril and then add "lion" to the end. :p

[Attalus]

Silmarilon?
Silmarilion?
Silmariloin?
I can spell silmaril but and can't spell the full name of the slim!
I always remember it by the mnemnonic "million, billion, Silmarillion." :p

[me9996]

I always remember it by the mnemnonic "million, billion, Silmarillion." :p
I can't spell that eather... :o

P.S.
90 seconds... why 90 seconds?...

[Elemmírë]

I don't know how you people get through the Silmarillion more than once...

Em and I are reading it again (outloud with a friend who's never read it before), and I swear it's simply painful!

The description of Alqualondë, friendships... When you know exactly how everything is going to fall out, how do you bear those early chapters...? :(

[Embladyne]

It is hard. I usually just use it to search for the parts I can't remember clearly rather than rereading it in depth again. And that's another reason I have written notes...so that I can find what I'm looking for with the least amount of pain. Although, it is so good that I can bear reading it again, the tragedy of it all just sinks deeper each time. And I really understand why Tolkien couldn't bear to write about the 4th age.
It is so beautiful, though, as you realize more each time you read it.

[LickTheEnvelope]

I received the Silmarillion from my gf for christmas and have just started reading it. As Pytt said near the beining of this thread: "There are a HELL OF ALOT OF NAMES!"

But if you keep going into the story they start to make alot of sense as the story unfolds. Often I had to go back and check on some of the differenct aspects of the 'Valar' (I think Ulmo is awesome and wish he was more central to alot of the story) but others such as Melkor, Manwe, Yavanna, Tulkas and Orome are mentioned very very often in connection with what they do and who they are.

It is very much the beginning of the world that is host to Middle-Earth and how Illuvatar created all for the Elves and Humans.

The Silmarills were 3 stones made by a elven named Feanor to capture the essence of life... (from the two great trees I beleive?). It is the story oh how the stone came to be captured by Melkor and the history of the goings on around the events.

I am enjoying it greatly!

Thank you all on Entmoot who recommended it a few months ago!!! :)

[Embladyne]

(I think Ulmo is awesome and wish he was more central to alot of the story)Yeah, Ulmo! Personally, He's my favourite Vala, with Yavanna and Nienna closely following. I always felt that Ulmo was involved in the events of ME in a much more active way than the other Valar, and I love it when Tuor meets him.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

my favourite vala is melkor the magnificent, bwahahahaha :evil:

[me9996]

my favourite vala is melkor the magnificent, bwahahahaha :evil:
Valar not "Vala".
Even I know that!

P.S.
What do you think of my sig?
It's from an old LOTR movie, yes I reconise it.

Wait, Aren't you the one who...

[Elemmírë]

Valar not "Vala".
Even I know that!


Vala is the singular.
Valar is the plural.

The Valar made the world.
Ulmo is the Vala who precides over the sea...

And my favourite Vala is the Valië Nienna. :)

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Tulkas has to be the coolest of the Valar.

[Radagast The Brown]

There's a thread for favourite Valar, you know... :p

Here - http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=3036. It's quite old though. You can probably post a new thread, if you want. :)

[me9996]

Vala is the singular.
Valar is the plural.

The Valar made the world.
Ulmo is the Vala who precides over the sea...

And my favourite Vala is the Valië Nienna. :)
Huh?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Huh?

Vala is the singular.
Valar is the plural.

The Valar made the world.
Ulmo is the Vala who precides over the sea...

And my favourite Vala is the Valië NiennaVala is only one.

Valar is more than one.

The Valar shaped the world with their music.

Ulmo was the most powerful Vala next to Manwe and ruled the seas and streams of Middle-earth.

Valie is fiminine, meaning only "one" of the queens of the Valar.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

meanwhile, valier is the plural definitive noun for valië

[Nurvingiel]

And the valet is the guy who parked your car! :D Next question?

[Embladyne]

Isn't Valur also the singular for a male Vala?

[me9996]

Isn't Valur also the singular for a male Vala?
Nah...

P.S.
90 seconds... I can tipe a post in less... unfortuneitly

[LickTheEnvelope]

Ulmo was the most powerful Vala next to Manwe and ruled the seas and streams of Middle-earth.

:(


Manwe doesn't seem to do much except sit up on the mountain and look at bad things happen... oh well maybe he does something cool in the last 150 pages. :o

[me9996]

:(


Manwe doesn't seem to do much except sit up on the mountain and look at bad things happen... oh well maybe he does something cool in the last 150 pages. :o
Maybe... s/he just seems to sit around... maybe...

[Lenya]

ElemmÃ*rë, I loved rereading it! And when I have the time, though I will wait a little while, I'll read it again... cause its my favourite book :p And me#, the 90 sec thing is really getting to you. I think you should see someone and talk it over.

[me9996]

ElemmÃ*rë, I loved rereading it! And when I have the time, though I will wait a little while, I'll read it again... cause its my favourite book :p And me#, the 90 sec thing is really getting to you. I think you should see someone and talk it over.
I have, didn't work, but that's off topic... :( :o :eek: :confused:

[Lenya]

Yip, but no one ever stays on topic that long.

[Earniel]

That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to. :mad: (and make my job a lot easier in the mean time ;))

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

But wasn't this thread OT as soon as we told me# what the Sil was?

[Elemmírë]

But wasn't this thread OT as soon as we told me# what the Sil was?

Maaaaybe.........

I suppose, though, it sort of counts if we keep on talking about the Sil itself... :D