Dialog

[Valandil]

OK - if I'm going to start in on some other serious writing projects, this is something I probably need to get a handle on. I have only done one 'project' so far - a series of 'letters' in the 'Letters from Middle Earth' thread over in the ME forum. I just realized that one easy thing about that was, I was able to do little or no actual dialog. It was all narrative - with a little bit of dialog relayed 'second hand', sort of.

Any tips on writing dialog? Any pointers on making it seem natural, or right, or... GOOD?

[Nurvingiel]

Hm... good one Valandil. Dialogue is difficult, and even the most natural-sounding conversations in writing have been edited and tweaked a million times. There's different ways to write dialogue.

Between more than two people, you have to go 'he said' 'said Valandil' etc. to keep your speakers distinct. But you don't want to be too repetetive with 'he said' etc. after the speaking lines.


For example:

"I'm High King at Annuminas," said Valandil.
"Well I didn't vote for you," stated the old woman.
"You don't vote for kings," he replied, surprised at her ignorance.
"Well how did you become king then?" the old woman asked aggresively.
"By exploiting the workforce!" asserted Dennis, the constitutional peasant. "By 'anging on to outdated, imperialist dogma that has perpetuated the class differences in our society."
"The Lady of the Lake," Valandil intoned, "Her arm clad in the purest, shimmering samite, held aloft the sword Excalibur. Signifying, by Divine right, that I was to wield Excalibur in battle. That is why I'm your king!"

You can say "said" more than I did there, but you see what I mean.


With only two people, sometimes you can skip saying 'he said' etc:

"Hello Valandil," said Nurvingiel. "Welcome to the Teacup Café!"
"Hi Nurv," he replied, looking around. "Not too busy today?" The Café was deserted apart from them.
"No... I'm not sure why though, we were packed yesterday."
"Well, there's a lot happening in the forums right now."
"Really, what?"
"All kinds of exciting threads," he answered authoritatively. "There's some really hot topics, but Mooters are, as usual, civil in their replies. There's some cool discussion on abortion, theology, marriage, politics, why people hold their beleifs, and this odd thread imagining some weird alien experiment."
"Oh yeah, you're a Super Moderator, of course you know all that! Anyway, what can I get you?"
"Oh... erm... I'll have a latte please," he asked politely, masking his embarassment. Nurvingiel made the latte with extra foam.
"There you are," she said, handing it to him, "It's on the house."

In that scene, sometimes I had "blah blah" by itself. Since there's only two people, it's obvious who's speaking, as long as there's a new paragraph each time a different person speaks (which is a rule anyway).

I'm not an authority, but those are my ideas on dialogue. If you think my two scenes are rubbish, perhaps you should ignore my advice. ;)

[Draken]

One way to ensure natural-sounding dialogue, I have been told, is to write it out as a script - so no 'he said she said' at all - grab a volunteer and do a read through. That will pick up any clumsy or un-natural prose that might otherwise look fine on paper.

Then go back and put in the descriptors as needed. The longer the dialogue, the more the need for the sort of elegant variation described by Nurvigiel.

[Nurvingiel]

Thanks Draken! :) I think writing out a script first is a great idea.

Another thing to remember is the way people speak. Tolkien is a brilliant example of this. The way characters speak tells you something about them. The Rohirrim and Gondorians have a more formal way, Treebeard "Hooms" etc. Because Tolkien is a genius, none of these local dialect differences are annoying.

I've read some books where the author tries to write accents into the dialogue. This might be fine for some people, but it irritates me to no end, especially if it's done constantly for certain characters. I prefer knowing about the accent - having it described in the 'he said' bits.

ex.
"Bottoms up mates!" he said. Sarah noticed his English accent.
or
"Excusez-moi," she asked with a heavy anglophone accent.

Now we know this about the characters, and you don't need to worry about it. That's just my opinion though.

[Draken]

Agreed, trying too hard to write in a dialect leads to tortured phonetics that only work in very small doses. Better to limit it to one or two phonetic quirks and try to convey the flow of the dialect in standard English. For example (and excuse the cliche here) "There's lovely, isn't it?" get across (I hope!) a Welsh lilt while using standard spellings.

[Nurvingiel]

Even though I didn't get the Welsh bit, I still picked up on the more unique accent that that character would have (and somewhat of its nature), without wanting to stop reading the book.

[Valandil]

Thanks for the pointers! :) I'm not on into my next 'project' yet, but I'll certainly keep these in mind... for when I get there. PLUS... I'll keep checking back for more helpful hints! :) :)

[Valandil]

PS - Nurv... can you tweak your dialog in the one thing to reflect early Third Age Arnor... rather than 5th-6th cent AD Britain?

OR... maybe THAT would be a nice 'first exercise' for me! ;) :p

[Nurvingiel]

LOL :D Sure, what would replace 'constitutional' for Dennis the constitutional peasant? And he'd need a proper name. What's the name of Valandil's sword? Or if it's not named, a plausible name.

:evil:

:eek: You could write... Valandil and the seach for the Holy Silmaril... or something...

[katya]

My stories always have too much dialog, probably because I read to much manga, actually. But I have found that reading the lines out loud helps tell you if the lines feel natural, and also gives more insight into the characters themselves. When I read my protagonist's lines aloud, I found she had taken on a personallity of her own.
I'm in agreement about writing out accents. It's really hard, because sometimes I can hardly understand people. But I guess that's partly just the words themselves.

[HLGStrider]

There are a few rules.

Generally more than "said" "asked" "replied" "stated" as far as word variation is pushing it. Avoid "He coughed, he ejaculated, he sniffed, he scoffed" at least use them sparingly. I like them but writing teachers generally don't. Who knows why.

Dialog needs to be believeable but not realistic. Word for word is not good. Whenever possible shorten it. In long sections summerize rather than repeat.
Mary asked, 'Are you supposed to do it that way?"
John irritably replied that he was very well supposed to do it that way and he would do so because if he didn't different factors would cause everything to explode.
In real life I would probably say, "You look very beautiful in that new dress." It is better in writing to keep it down to "You look beautiful." unless the dress is important. Cut, shorten, sharp and punchy.

If your character is six, have him talk that way. If he is a college professor have him talk that way. Kids don't use big words. Professors will occasionally mess up their gramar, but they also tend to use bigger words and be more accurate.

[IronParrot]

It depends on your style.

At the most elementary level, they tell you not to use "said" all the time. That's largely to expose you to other words and expand your vocabulary.

After awhile you realize that the authors we read don't rely on that either. Typically they'll identify the speakers only where it's necessary to clarify who's speaking, so the reader doesn't get lost. Then they pad the rest of the passage with literary devices and more importantly, actions.

If you like substituting for "said," though, sometimes it's a very effective literary device to contradict the spirit of the line of dialogue itself and create a sense of irony.

Compare these hypothetical examples I just cooked up.

1) "I'm having a lovely day," she said.
2) "I'm having a lovely day," she replied.
3) "I'm having a lovely day," she replied succinctly.
4) "I'm having a lovely day," she lied.
5) She gazed out the window and recalled the smell of that morning's daisies. "I'm having a lovely day."
6) She gazed out the window and held back her tears. "I'm having a lovely day."
7) "I'm having a lovely day." No need to tell him about the accident.

The possibilities are endless once you really play with the language. Remember, what's important is not just what is contained in the sentence - but also where you put the sentence.

[Earniel]

Some articles from Woodworks that may be of help. They often have very interesting articles and tutorials for art and writing:

Ways to ruin your dialog part 1 (http://www.woodworksezine.com/2004/issue09_july/dialogue.html)

Ways to ruin your dialog part 2 (http://www.woodworksezine.com/2004/issue09_aug/dialogue2.html)

Ways to ruin your dialog part 3 (http://www.woodworksezine.com/2004/issue10/dialogue3.html)

Ways to ruin your dialog part 4 (http://www.woodworksezine.com/2004/issue10_oct/dialogue4.html)

[ethuiliel]

I've been having trouble with dialogue myself, so I read those articles, and they are useful. Thanks for posting them.