Character analysis: Beren, Tuor, Aragorn

[Beren3000]

I posted this thread in the ME forum since Aragorn isn't from the Sil. Anyway, the thread will be as usual:

1-Intro
2-Compare and contrast (should be a very important part in this thread)
3-Speculation

Here we go:

[Beren3000]

Beren:
The son of Barahir of the house of Beor. He survived the raid on Dorthonion because he was sent to spy on Morogth's servants. Upon returning to find all his relatives and friends slain, Beren was blind with rage. He buried the bones of his father and started on a journey of vengeance that would lead Morgoth to put a price upon his head "no less than the price upon the head of Fingon."
But eventually, Beren was forced to flee Dorthonion by the forces of Morgoth. He thus crossed the Gorgoroth (Mountains of Terror) and Dungortheb, the domain of the Children of Ungoliant; thus being the only human to do so. The tale goes on to say that "it was put into his heart" to go to Doriath.
The "great doom that drove him" enabled him to pass the Girdle of Melian unhindered, and when he came to the forest at night, he saw Luthien singing for the first time and was enamored with her from the first glance. The tale of their courtship does not (I think) fall into the scope of this thread. To sum it up, Beren was placed before Thingol and Melian and expressed his intentions of marrying Luthien. Thingol accepted but stipulated that Beren bring a Silmaril to Doriath as the brideprice of Luthien. Beren went to Nargothrond and called upon Felagund to aid him in this quest, invoking the promise that Finrod had made earlier to Barahir, Beren's father. Beren and Felagund eventually get trapped in the Tol-in-Gaurhoth, the dungeons of Sauron. Luthien, freed from the tree-house in which her father had imprsoned her, joins up with Huan, the hound of Valinor and set up to save Beren. In the dungeon, Felagund dies and Luthien comes in time to save Beren, defeating Sauron with a song. They wandered together for a while but Beren tried to go to Angband on his own, sparing Luthien the danger. But thanks to Huan, Luthien catches up with him and they put on disguises that enable them to enter Angband. Luthien enchants Morgoth with her spell and puts him to sleep. Then Beren removes a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown and leaves Angband with Luthien. But when Carcharoth, the Wolf of Angband battles Beren for the Silmaril, Beren swoons and wakes up to find himself in Doriath where the Eagles had taken him and Luthien. He goes to Thingol and tries to reveal the Silmaril to him, only to find that his hand was cut and that the Silmaril now lay in Carcharoth's belly. Thereupon, he named himself Camlost, the Empty-Handed. Now the Silmaril's holy power drives Carcharoth mad and makes him set forth from Angband on a wild rampage. Beren set out from Doriath with the King's men to help slay it. But before slaying it, Beren receives his death wound. He nevertheless manages to secure the Silmaril. So after his death, he was reunited with Luthien and they came back to Middle-Earth to live togethere for a while. A son was born to them: Dior Eluchil (Eluchil = Elu's heir).

Source: The Silmarillion

I can't post the other 2 intros right now; anyone feel free to post them or else I'll post them later...

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Aragorn:
Son of Arathorn and Gilraen and the heir of Isildur. Aragorn was take by Gilraen to Imladris at the age of two, after he athers death. There Elrond takes him in as his foster son and names him Estel, hiding his true anscestry from him. At the age of twenty Estel returns to Imladris after great deeds with Elrond's sons. There Elrond tells him his true anscestry and lineage, giving to him the Ring of Barahir and the Shards of Narsil, yet withholds the sceptre of Annuminas. Aragorn then for the first time ses Arwen and names her in the likeness of Luthien and from that day forward loved her. Yet Elrond, as Thingol before him, layed a price on their marriage. Only if Aragorn take up the throne of Gondor and Arnor should he marry Arwen. After that Aragorn goes into the wild and after a time meets Gandalf and begins a long freindship. He thens serves in both Gonodor and Rohan serving Ecthelion II and Thengel as Thorongil. After a time he passed through Lorien where he again meets Arwen and upon Cerin Amroth they are betrothed. Many years later Gandalf calls upopn the help of Aragorn and whilst the Rangers are guarding the Shire he searches Middle-Earth for Gollum, eventually finding him in the Dead Marshes and takes him to Thranduil in Mirkwood.
Then pass the events of the War of the Ring and Aragorn lead the Company to Parth Galen after Gandalf's fall in Moria. He, along with Legolas and Gimli pass throught the plains of Rohan to Fangorn in search of Merry and Pippin. There the are reunited with Gandalf. Aragorn then helps in the battle of Helms Deep. The he calls the Dead to fulfil the rpomise they made to Isildur before he cursed them. They help Aragorn win Pelagar. Aragorn then arrives on the Pelennor with hundreds of men, helping defeat the armies of Mordor. He then leads men of Gondor and Rohan to the Black Gate in a last grasp effort to give Frodo and Sam time.
After Sauron's fall Aragorn becomes King Elessar Telconatr of Gondor and Arnor and weds Arwen Undomiel. He then dies in 1521 of the Fourth Age after ruling Gondor and Arnor for 1543 years after passingon the crown to his son Eldarion.

[Rían]

Tuor:
The ultimate studmuffin!



(what, you want more detail than that? OK, maybe later...)

[Beren3000]

Since nobody else has posted it, I'll post the intro on Tuor (Sorry, Rian, beat you to it :) ):

Tuor:
Son of Huor of the house of Hador of Dorlomin. His father was killed in the Nirnaeth. He then was fostered by Grey-Elves. But when the Elves tried to leave the caves of Androth where they were settled, they were attacked by Orcs and Easterlings. In this raid, Tuor was taken captive and was enslaved for three years by Lorgan, chief of the Easterlings of Hithlum. After the three years, Tuor escaped back to the caves of Androth and "did such great hurt to the Easterlings that Lorgan set a price upon his head." (Now, where did we hear that before ;) )
But after a while, Ulmo inspired Tuor to leave the caves of Androth. So it was that Tuor found the Annon-in-Gelydh (the Gate of the Noldor) and followed it to where it issued in the Cirith Ninniach (the Rainbow Cleft). Following this course, made Tuor's escape as secret as secret can be. When Tuor finally arrived in Nevrast, he was "enamoured" of the sea and so stayed for a while in Nevrast. But one day, Tuor saw seven white swans flying south. He took this as a divine sign and followed the swans' flight. There he found Ulmo, Lord of the Waters. Ulmo directed him to take Turgon's armor that was left in Vinyamar on Ulmo's instructions and go warn Turgon of the impending doom of Gondolin. Finally, Ulmo gave Tuor a cloak to hide him from the eyes of his enemies. After that, Tuor found Voronwë by the shore: the lone survivour of the last ship that Turgon sent into the West in hope of coming back into the Valar's good graces. Voronwë offers to guide Tuor to Gondolin and so they set on their journey, hidden under Ulmo's cloak. Then there comes an interesting bit when they come across a "tall Man" whom they didn't recognize and say no word to. This man (Turin) is Tuor's cousin and yet they were separated by fate so that neither recognized the other in this meeting.
Eventually, Tuor arrives to Gondolin and presents the counsel of Ulmo to Turgon. The latter refuses it but allows (or rather forces) Tuor to stay in Gondolin. Tuor quickly became popular in Gondolin. So popular that he actually got to marry Turgon's daughter, Idril Celebrindal. This was "the second union of Elves and Men" (peopel who post in the "Was Beren and Luthien the first Elf-Man marriage?" thread, please note this :D). Their offspring was Earendil the Halfelven who was later to marry Elwing, Dior Eluchil's daughter.
After Maeglin betrayed Gondolin to Morgoth, Tuor and Idril led a remnant of the people of Gondolin out by a secret path that Idril had had prepared for such a circumstance. They came at last to live with the people of Elwing, Diior's daughter and settled with them. After some time, Tuor felt the ravages of age and a great longing for the Sea. So he built a great ship and sailed with Idril to the West, never to be seen or heard of again. It was later said that Tuor alone of all Men was counted among the Eldar and "his fate [was] sundered from the fate of Men."

Source: The Silmarillion

Let the discussion begin...

[Beren3000]

Ok maybe "let the discussion begin" was too vague. I'll outline some points I think are worthy of discussion.

1- The obvious reason for choosing these three characters was that they were the only Men to marry Elves (that we know of, at least). Their stories are amazingly similar:
Troubled childhood-becoming outlawed and having "a price set upon their head"-meeting and falling in love with a great Elven princess-performing a great feat to earn that Elf's hand-marrying the Elf and living happily ever after.

How is that significant? Is it some sort of archetype? Also, Tolkien said that he most identified with Beren. Thus his wife was to him as Luthien, a great "Elven" princess who was unattainable save through a daring "feat" (in Tolkien's case it was enduring three years or something without seeing her). But since the three stories are so similar, why doesn't Tolkien identify with Aragorn or Tuor?

2-What is the significance of Tuor's seeing Turin and not recognizing him?

3-Why was Tuor allowed to marry Idril without performing any "feat"?

4-Was Eldarion (Aragorn and Arwen's son) a Halfelven or was he completely human since Arwen gave up her immortality? If he were a Halfelven, did he then have a longer life-span like the Numenoreans? For that matter, why wasn't he given the choice of his fate (either Elvish or Human) like the sons Earendil?

More thoughts to come later...
Let the discussion begin (I hope) :)

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

How is that significant? Is it some sort of archetype? Also, Tolkien said that he most identified with Beren. Thus his wife was to him as Luthien, a great "Elven" princess who was unattainable save through a daring "feat" (in Tolkien's case it was enduring three years or something without seeing her). But since the three stories are so similar, why doesn't Tolkien identify with Aragorn or Tuor?
The Sil was the closest to his heart and maybe the Tale of Beren and Luthien was his favourite

2-What is the significance of Tuor's seeing Turin and not recognizing him?
Maybe this was Tolkien showing that Tuor's paths were to leave those of his kin, and that soon he would no longer be counted one of them

3-Why was Tuor allowed to marry Idril without performing any "feat"?
I think enduring torment from the Easterlings, becoming an outcast, wondering at finding the Gate of the Noldor, becoming a messenger of Ulmo, and with the help of an elf finding Gondolin is small feat! :p

4-Was Eldarion (Aragorn and Arwen's son) a Halfelven or was he completely human since Arwen gave up her immortality? If he were a Halfelven, did he then have a longer life-span like the Numenoreans? For that matter, why wasn't he given the choice of his fate (either Elvish or Human) like the sons Earendil?

I think he was just a human. For Arwen also had a choice and was not strictly an elf before meeting Aragorn. She aged as one of the Eldar until she made her choice, for it says(somewhere) that the choice was also give to Elronds children, whether to become elven or human.

[Rían]

#2 - I always liked that little bit where Tuor saw Turin and never knew it was his cousin... just another example of the richness of detail JRRT included.

#3 - I think his "feats" were fighting against the Easterlings so heroically, and also faithfully achieving the long and difficult task of making it to Gondolin. Only a special guy could have achieved that, and I think Idil (along with everyone else in Gondolin) recognizes both his strength and heart, and that's why she falls in love with him.

The Fall of Gondolin is one of my favorite Tolkien works - I love the picture it shows of Tuor, torn between his love and concern for Idril and Earendil and his desire to courageously defend his home and king.

I think Tuor/Turin is an interesting comparison, too.

(sorry this is so short - hopefully things will slow down in a week or so for me and I can Moot more)

[Beren3000]

Maybe this was Tolkien showing that Tuor's paths were to leave those of his kin, and that soon he would no longer be counted one of them
Interesting point! Never thought of it that way before...

I think enduring torment from the Easterlings, becoming an outcast, wondering at finding the Gate of the Noldor, becoming a messenger of Ulmo, and with the help of an elf finding Gondolin is small feat!
I think his "feats" were fighting against the Easterlings so heroically, and also faithfully achieving the long and difficult task of making it to Gondolin.
But Beren suffered with the raiders from Angband and was an outlaw for a while, too. YET he was forced to retrieve a Silmaril as Luthien's brideprice. By the way, this adds another point to the comparison between the three characters: both Beren and Tuor had to make a journey to a "hidden realm" and Aragorn also followed a hard road to get to Gondor. So is Tolkien just modelling these chracters' story after the story of his courtship with Edith (that was her name wasn't it? :o )? Or is he trying to say something else?
I think Idil (along with everyone else in Gondolin) recognizes both his strength and heart, and that's why she falls in love with him.
Again, Luthien loved Beren and Arwen Aragorn. But both of these had to perform a special task in order to please the FATHER of the woman.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

YET he was forced to retrieve a Silmaril as Luthien's brideprice. By the way, this adds another point to the comparison between the three characters: both Beren and Tuor had to make a journey to a "hidden realm" and Aragorn also followed a hard road to get to Gondor. So is Tolkien just modelling these chracters' story after the story of his courtship with Edith (that was her name wasn't it? :o )? Or is he trying to say something else?
I think the major journey made by Aragorn that Elrond noticed was his his journey to manhood. For at the age of twenty he was soon come to manhood but had not yet reached his prime.

Again, Luthien loved Beren and Arwen Aragorn. But both of these had to perform a special task in order to please the FATHER of the woman.
I think that Huor and Hurin performed a feat that pleased Turgon, and as their blood ran in his veins he knew what could be expected. I think Tuors major feat came after he had married Idril, when defending Gondolin and Earendil and Idril.

[Beren3000]

I think that Huor and Hurin performed a feat that pleased Turgon, and as their blood ran in his veins he knew what could be expected. I think Tuors major feat came after he had married Idril, when defending Gondolin and Earendil and Idril.
Good point, there!

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Aragorn didn't exaacly have to complete a quest though did he. Elrond said that he had to become King of Gondor and Arnor so that isn't exacly a quest as he was the rightful heir.

[Beren3000]

It didn't start as a quest, yes; but he ended up facing Uruk-Hai, the Dead of Dunharrow and all the hosts at the Pelennor and the Black Gate. Quest enough for ya? :D

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Yes but he didn't have to do all of that to gain Arwen's hand in marriage. He only had to become King of Gondor and Arnor.

[Beren3000]

Well, he couldn't have gone there and just told them: "Hello, I'm your rightful king. Will Denethor kindly step down from the throne?" Anyway, let's not turn this thread into what would've happened if Aragorn claimed Gondor's throne sooner.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Do you think that Tuor's position went up in Gondolin after he married Idril. Turgon may have heede the warnings of Ulmo had Tuor been wed to Idril then.

[Artanis]

Well the obvious similarity between these three men is that they're all Men, and they were all destined to marry an Elvish woman. The stories of Beren and Tuor are both small, but necessary parts of the story of the regaining of the Silmarils and the overthrow of Morgoth. Beren (or more correctly Lúthien ;) ) retrieves one of the Silmarils from Morgoth's throne. The child of Tuor and Idril, Eärendil, is the one who takes the Silmaril to Valinor, and begs the Valar for assistance against Morgoth. Eärendil is the perfect person to do so, he is a representative for both Elves and Men. If Beren or Tuor had not succeeded, there would perhaps not have been any War of Wrath.
And the story of Aragorn is also a necessary part of the story of the overthrow of Sauron. The marriage between him and Arwen was important to renew the strain of Elvish blood in the human race.

Again, Luthien loved Beren and Arwen Aragorn. But both of these had to perform a special task in order to please the FATHER of the woman.Yes, but Beren's and Aragorn's labour was necessary for the course of history. Thingol of course didn't think of the course of history when he sent Beren out after a Silmaril (though Melian had her thoughts about the matter), he was just behaving like a jerk. But Elrond in his wisdom did realise that Aragorn had a duty, a task to fulfil before he could settle peacefully down in marriage. When Tuor met Turgon, he had already achieved his task, which was to get to Gondolin with the message from Ulmo.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

When Tuor met Thingol, he had already achieved his task, which was to get to Gondolin with the message from Ulmo.
It was Turgon not Thingol!
I don't think Tuor's coming to Gondolin is what actually 'pleased' Turgon. He rejected the counsels of Ulmo. As I said above I think Hurin and Huor play a major part in Turgon's pleasing.

[Artanis]

It was Turgon not Thingol!You're absolutely right! I'll go back and edit it. :p
I don't think Tuor's coming to Gondolin is what actually 'pleased' Turgon. He rejected the counsels of Ulmo. As I said above I think Hurin and Huor play a major part in Turgon's pleasing.The coming of Tuor didn't displease Turgon either, do you think? As you said, he held Huor and Húrin in great honour and must have been pleased to see the son of Huor, especially when it was clear that Tuor had the favour of Ulmo.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I don't think it displeased Turgon, but it wasn't what won his favour, and wasn't why he could gain Idril's hand in marriage.

[Rían]

It was Turgon not Thingol! All those "T" names! The only thing worse is all those "F" names!

As I said above I think Hurin and Huor play a major part in Turgon's pleasing.That's a good point. I think if some random guy made it into Gondolin, it wouldn't have made such an impact on Turgon. However, the son of Huor making it to Gondolin was a confirmation of his greatness, like his dad, and Turgon couldn't help remembering Tuor's dad's valiant fighting and how much he owed him.

A quote from FoG:

(Turgon speaking to Tuor): "Lo! thy coming was set in our books of wisdom, and it has been written that there would come to pass many great things in the homes of the Gondothlim whenso thou faredst hither."

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

That's a good point. I think if some random guy made it into Gondolin, it wouldn't have made such an impact on Turgon. However, the son of Huor making it to Gondolin was a confirmation of his greatness, like his dad, and Turgon couldn't help remembering Tuor's dad's valiant fighting and how much he owed him.
I wouldn't say some random guy but if say it had been Beren that had come to Gondolin it wouldn't have had the same impact as Tuor did.

[Rían]

I agree :)

(but doesn't that sound funny? Imagine some average random human accidentally wandering into Gondolin.... :D )

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

What about Aragorn. He was a descendant of both Tuor and Beren.

[The Gaffer]

(but doesn't that sound funny? Imagine some average random human accidentally wandering into Gondolin.... :D )
Turgon: "What bringest thou unto the forbidden realm of Gondolin? For it is written that none shall pass hither except that a great doom be upon the world"
Random human: (Opens suitcase) "Would you like to buy one of my fine household cleansing products?"

[Rían]

Oy! Mind bleach! Mind bleach!!! *runs off screaming* :D