A Question.

[Rûdhaglarien]

I only just realized this:

At the end of GoF, why doesn't Harry see the horses drawing the carriages? The reason is probably mentioned somewhere, but I've missed it, if it was.

He has already witnessed Cedric's death, so... why can't he see them?

[sirigorn]

This was explained by JKR. She said that you have to come to terms with the death before you see them. Harry hadn't fully comprehended it yet, you could say, and he definatly hadn't come to terms with it yet, which is why he couldn't see them yet. He was still in shock from it.

~Siri~

[Lizra]

Heh! Sounds pretty fishy to me! :p

[sirigorn]

She says she thought about it. Here's exactly what she said:
"Harry had just seen Cedric die when he got back into the carriages to go back to Hogsmeade station. I thought about that at the end of Goblet, because I have known from the word go what was drawing the carriages. From Chamber of Secrets, in which there are carriages drawn by invisible things, I have known what was there. I decided that it would be an odd thing to do right at the end of a book. Anyone who has suffered a bereavement knows that there is the immediate shock but that it takes a little while to appreciate fully that you will never see that person again. Until that had happened, I did not think that Harry could see the Thestrals. That means that when he goes back, he saw these spooky things. It set the tone for Phoenix, which is a much darker book."

~Siri~

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

But didn't Harry see his parents die so shouldn't he have been able to see them all the time.

[azalea]

He was in his crib at the time, according to JKR.

[sirigorn]

Exactly. Also, he was too young to really understand it even if he had seen them die. And he didn't see Quirrel die in the first book, he was unconsious at the time.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Okay it's just I haven't read the books in ages.

[Lizra]

It's her book...so what she says goes...but I'm of the opinion that when you see someone die, you see someone die, right then and there. Anybody know the exact wording of when someone "sees" the thestrals? Is it when you see someone die, or when you suffer the loss that comes from someone's death? :rolleyes: :confused:

[sirigorn]

In Hagrid's class, when he asked why some people can see them and some can't, Hermione said that "you can only see thestrals if you have seen death". So it's neither really. Death isn't the same thing as seeing someone die. But I think that it could be interpeted either way.

~Siri~

[sun-star]

I agree with Lizra, it's a bit fishy! I think JKR made up the rule about understanding death just so she could put the Thestrals in Book 5 instead of Book 4...

[azalea]

Whe pretty much admits that in the above quote. I agree that literarily it made more sense to introduce them at the start of the next book than at the end of a book, without a chance for explanation. It does seem fishy, but I can accept the explanation. I think there is a period of shock after which the death and what it means sinks in. But realistically I think it would be a matter of hours and not days. I forget how long it was from the time Cedric was killed to when Harry went home on the train, but it was at least a couple of days. He had a recovery period, and then the end of year feast.

[sirigorn]

Harry wasn't just in shock from Cedric dying. I mean, in the space of a few hours, he had to face the stuff in the maze, he saw someone he trusted torturing someone else, he was injured twice, he got kidnapped by the his parent's murderer, he was the man who betrayed his parents, his blood helped to restore said murderer whom he also had to deul. He was also tortured himself and saw his parents come out of said murderer's wand. And more. Don't you think that it would take more than a few hours to recover form that? If not weeks? And I personally think it would take a few days if it had just been that he saw Cedric die. That's more than anyone should have to go through in a lifetime, and it happened in a few hours to him.

~Siri~

[azalea]

The other stuff doesn't directly have to do with witnessing Cedric's death, which is what JK said was the impetus for his being able to see the thestrals. However, I think you are saying that because of all the other stuff, it took him longer than it might have ; ie, the shock of going through the other stuff in addition to seeing the murder caused the "sinking in" to be delayed. I agree with you.

[sirigorn]

Yeah, thats exactly what I mean. If I didn't explain properly, thats for clearing that up. ;)

~Siri~

[Rûdhaglarien]

This was explained by JKR. She said that you have to come to terms with the death before you see them. Harry hadn't fully comprehended it yet, you could say, and he definatly hadn't come to terms with it yet, which is why he couldn't see them yet. He was still in shock from it.

~Siri~

That's what we were thinking (we being my sister and I), but I was lazy and, instead of figuring it out for meeself, I just asked you! Thanks.