Was Bilbo really needed

[Haradrim]

I was just wondering if people thought Bilbo was really needed. I mean yes he found the ring but thats just backsight(or whatever you call it) Was he important to the quest? Ill answer after I hear you guys.

[BeardofPants]

Well, hobbit sensibility and practicality can't be under-written. I wonder if, had not Bilbo stumbled across the ring, the ring would have found it's way to an erstwhile young hobbit who, with a little help from his friends (ooh, I get by with a little help from my friends....) had the gumption to march up to the front door of the baddie, and drop his ring down a fiery crack of doom. Interesting.

Bilbo also provided the "heads-up" to Gandalf with regards to it being an ring of power. I wonder if Gandalf would have noticed as soon (!) as he did if the ring had not come to the shire?

[Haradrim]

but without knowing about the ring. Put yourself at the very end of the adventure. Is Bilbo necessary. Dont think about the ring thing. THough actually now that I think about ti if not for Bilbo the dwarves would be with the spiders or in the clutches of the Elf king. So I proved myself wrong. Hehehehehe :) I guess he was necessary.

[Lizra]

Quest or story? :) Bilbo makes the story...( very amusing! :D ) The last bit, without Bilbo is rather dry and boring. ;)

[Haradrim]

well he is needed for both quest and story.
The quest wouldnt have suceeded if he hadnt freed them from the Elven kingdom and from the spiders.
Also you are right the story woul dhave been pretty dry without him

[Radagast The Brown]

Bilbo was, IMO, the most important in this story, except Gandalf and Thorin. What about the dragon? Without him, I bet the dwarves wouldn't have done anything, scared to wake up the dragon. (with reason, though :p)
Plus, you mentioned all the things Bilbo did in Mirkwood.

[elixir]

Also that part when Bilbo takes the Arkenstone and gives it to Bard and the Elven-king. I mean with that he bought extra time for both sides, but if there had been no Bilbo then the people of Lake-town and elves might have attacked Thorin and Company before the bad guys ever get there. Though they would never have got rid of Smaug without the help of Bilbo, me thinks. :)

[BeardofPants]

Yes, that is right, Rad! Tolkien mentions somewheres (I ferget where) that that quest was deliberately started by Gandalf to get rid of the dragon. Thus, Bilbo the burglar was thoroughly essential to the greater story of the ring, because if the Quest of the Ring had been undertaken without first taking out Smaug, they would have had a dragon breathing down their necks!

[Radagast The Brown]

Yes, that is right, Rad! Tolkien mentions somewheres (I ferget where) that that quest was deliberately started by Gandalf to get rid of the dragon. Thus, Bilbo the burglar was thoroughly essential to the greater story of the ring, because if the Quest of the Ring had been undertaken without first taking out Smaug, they would have had a dragon breathing down their necks!In UT, :) Yes, Gandalf was afraid Smaug would join Sauron, so he decided to aid Thorin in his journey. Who knows what would have happened if Bilbo wasn't there. :eek:

[Haradrim]

Yeah I also thought he took Erebor because he was afraid that Sauron might try to send forces to RIvendell and that he wanted there to be a barrier in the way. It is mentioned that the men of dale and the dwarves of Erebor were fighting as well. Also remember when I think Gloin related the story of the ringwraith who had come by asking questions. So I think there were many reasons for taking Erebor back.

[Valandil]

OF COURSE Bilbo was important, silly! Without him the book would not be called 'The Hobbit'! :D

[Haradrim]

well there is that. Imagine if he hadnt gone what would Tolkien have called the book. Maybe Gandalf and the 13 dwarves. hehehehehehehe. Gandalf east an evil apple at the enbd but the prince kisses him and they live happily ever after. :):b :D

[BeardofPants]

In UT, :)

Tya, that's the one. :)

[Elvengirl]

OF COURSE Bilbo was important, silly! Without him the book would not be called 'The Hobbit'! :D
hehe very insightful Val ;) :D

[Haradrim]

Wh y Bilbo though. What made hims specialer than all the other Hobbits? and why did the dwarves allow it? I wouldnt have let him come if I had met him only once and was supposed to put my life in his hands some times.

[BeardofPants]

Because of his genetics, Bilbo was more inclined toward adventuring... something that is not a naturally occuring habit for hobbits! They trusted him because Gandalf told them to trust him, and I'm guessing that they trusted Gandalf. As for why? Well, hobbits make the perfect burglars when they're not bungling about. They're quiet, and are not easily spotted by giant lugs like us.

[Haradrim]

But still. Even if someone you really trusted told you to bring a long what seemed to be a liability and you might have to put your life in his hands would you do it? I know I wouldnt
:)

[BeardofPants]

Well, I think after the episode with the spiders, and getting 'em out of the prison, Bilbo proved that he was more than capable of gettin' the job done. :)

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

And it was Bilbo who found then dragon's weak spot.

[Haradrim]

yes yes both true but Thorin nor any of the dwarves knew that would happen. SO to them in the very beginning why would they trust themselves to Bilbo simply because he is lucky 14?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

And Gandalf himself suggested him.

[Haradrim]

I dont care if Eru himself reccomended Bilbo. I would never ever ever in a million years trust my life to a hobbit who I had only met for one day and who seeme d to be rather meek very excitable, and slightly off. :) it just dont make no sense no more. :)

[Elanor the Fair]

Gandalf did more than suggest that Bilbo accompany the dwarves, he insisted - to the point that he foretold disaster for the expedition if Thorin refused to take Bilbo and, additionally, refused to aid the dwarves. Thorin, however, did not take Bilbo without any guarantees - he insisted that Gandalf come along to look after Bilbo.

"Very well," Thorin said at last after a silence. "He shall set out with my company, if he dares (which I doubt). But if you insist on burdening me with him, you must come too and look after your darling."

[Haradrim]

Now I remember that line. My friend has my book so I have been working on memory for a while. But whatever. Thanks very muhc. Well now I guess the dwarves didnt really have a choice.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Anyway it was Thorins choice to have 14 members and not to stick with thirteen. In UT it says he asked for Gandalf's help in the Prancing POny when Gandalf was on the way to the Shire and Thorin was on his way to the Blu Mountains.

[Earniel]

I dont care if Eru himself reccomended Bilbo. I would never ever ever in a million years trust my life to a hobbit who I had only met for one day and who seeme d to be rather meek very excitable, and slightly off. :) it just dont make no sense no more. :)
On the other hand, thirteen dwarves that want to go and tangle with a big mean (but stylish) dragon are slightly 'off' themselves, if you ask for my humble opinion. ;) And if a wizard of renown and some power wants to help you on the right road and the only thing he asks is to take a Hobbit tag-along, then I would make my decision quickly enough, and the answer would be: Let him come. Even if he proved to be a nuissance on the road you could also tell the wizard, "I told you so". :p

[Haradrim]

That woudl eb interesting if one of the dwarves acytually said told you so to ndalf.

[elixir]

Well, Thorin was quite angry at Gandalf when he found out that Bilbo had given the Arkenstone to Bard and the Elven-king, and Gandalf showed his face there. ;)

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Well, Thorin was quite angry at Gandalf when he found out that Bilbo had given the Arkenstone to Bard and the Elven-king, and Gandalf showed his face there. ;)

Quite angry. Bit of an understatment, he went mad.

[Earniel]

Which could very well be the reason why Gandalf made sure he was on the other side of the wall than Thorin. :p

[Haradrim]

I can see it now. Gandalf with his hand against thorins head while thorin windmills his arms. AHHHHHHHHH! :)

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Yeah the dwarf hardiness beating that of a Maia!

[Haradrim]

No Gandalf would have wiped Thorins face in the floor easily but it would have been funny to see throin try. :) hehehehehehehehhheee.

[Nurvingiel]

Of course Bilbo was needed! I think Gandalf is very insightful into people's characters (maybe it's a Maia thing ;) ), and he chose him for two reasons.

1. Gandalf saw an intelligent, brave, tough and resourceful hobbit under that excitable exterior. Bilbo proves to be all these fine qualities throughout the journey - when he tries to pick the troll's pocket, when he duels with Gollum at riddling and escapes the goblins, when he saves the Dwarves from spiders and elven dungeons, and especially when he starts taking charge of the adventure when they reach the Lonely Mountain. True, he was extremely lucky to find the Ring. But think of how he used it. He could have abandonned his friends and used it for evil, but instead he wisely didn't tell them about it (it's probably not a plan to tell dwarves about golden rings, and the less people that know you have something like that the better). He used it as a tool, in conjunction with his other skills, like hobbit stealth (instead of "all that dwarvish racket").
The dwarves would have failed in their quest without Bilbo's organization and leadership at Laketown and the Lonely Mountain. They would have lived a life of ease for too long in Laketown had Bilbo not urged them to go. He also did not, unlike the dwarves, leave a live dragon out of his calculations. True, he didn't have a plan either, but he discovered Smaug's weak point using the Ring, hobbit stealth, a great deal of mental toughness (to resist the dragon spell), bravery, and cleverness.

2. Gandalf hints in various places in LOTR and a bit in The Hobbit that there are forces of good greater then them at work. He seems to have some insight into what these forces are up to - perhaps he's referring to the Valar. My point with this is Bilbo's finding the Ring. Gandalf didn't predict specifically that he would find it, and only guessed that there was more to Bilbo's story of escaping from the goblins than he let on. However, it turned out that Bilbo was the ideal person to posses the One Ring at this time. I don't believe this was a mere coincidence. Gandalf must have at least known that Bilbo's presence on the quest would be needed for its success.

[inked]

Bilbo was needed, but no one, not even Gandalf knew the real need - that of finding the One Ring. This was destined by Eru, possibly through the agency of the Valar, but more likely directly by Eru. Note that in LOTR Gandalf's words to Frodo are his summation of all his research and reflection on the events as they had unfolded to that point: "Bilbo was meant to find the ring...and that is an encouraging thought."

I suspect that reading back through the lens of LOTR, we can see how Tolkein regularised the account and importance of Bilbo to the whole. In the Hobbit itself, however, Bilbo is the entire focus of the story which began, after all, as a scribble on the back of an examination paper "In a hole in the ground lived a hobbit".

So, if I may make bold, not even Tolkein knew the ultimate importance of the hobbit as (sub)Creator of Middle Earth, but the Creator did!

[Nurvingiel]

Well put Inked! :) I agree with you. I think Gandalf chose Bilbo for the reasons I suggested, and maybe a little prompting from Eru. (Maybe that's what gave Gandalf his insight in this case.)

[legolaslover543]

goodday ,i pesonally think billbo was needed because................................ froddo i belive was not even born yet(am i right, or am i right? :rolleyes: ) please someone go look that up 'cause i doing this out of memory:p

[Beregond]

The hobbit was only written to allow the Lord of the rings to written, but I don't think he would have been much use if he had'nt found the ring.

[Blackheart]

Actually the hobbit was written before Tolkein had firmly conceptualized the LOTR.

In the original version Bilbo won the ring in a riddle game with gollum. But having already found it, he got gollum to show him the way out.

Tolkein later changed this when he decided that the ring was "the one". He did it pretty neatly, mind you, using the original story as bilbo's lie....

In any event, you can't really say that in the original story Bilbo had to be there to find the one ring, because he didn't find the one ring in the original story. It was a children's story in it's original conception.

The Hobbit was likely there sheerly for appeal. No not sex appeal...

Appeal as someone, who though not a child, still had a childlike viewpoint, and a sense of wonder. The fact that the story doesn't just appeal to children is evidence of how well Tolkein crafted...

[Earniel]

goodday ,i pesonally think billbo was needed because................................ froddo i belive was not even born yet(am i right, or am i right? :rolleyes: ) please someone go look that up 'cause i doing this out of memory:p
Not much an argument IMO, why would Frodo have had an influence on whether Bilbo was needed on the quest to the Lonely Mountain?

[me9996]

I was just wondering if people thought Bilbo was really needed. I mean yes he found the ring but thats just backsight(or whatever you call it) Was he important to the quest? Ill answer after I hear you guys.

He freed the dwarfs from the spiders and later the elves.
He found smags weakness.
He found the one ring (but this is not importent in the hobbit).

So I think he was needed.

P.S.
Start a tread like this and you'll get an icredable number of posts saying the same thing!

[ItalianLegolas]

he was needed, because he just was, and without him gollum keeps ring, ring doesn't get destroyed, Sauron takes over world. Nah, he wasn't important at all :D

[me9996]

he was needed, because he just was, and without him gollum keeps ring, ring doesn't get destroyed, Sauron takes over world. Nah, he wasn't important at all :D

You're right, he wasn't needed :rolleyes: