Neville!

[BeardofPants]

Okay, so I just noticed in the first book how the sorting hat hesitates in placing neville as well (took a while). D'ye think the hat was debating on slytherin like he did with Harry? Or do you think I'm reading too much into it (with regards to the prophecy).

*BoP who is slightly slow on the uptake*

[Lizra]

What are the qualities of all the houses? (lazy, aren't I! :p )

[BeardofPants]

Oh, you may not think I'm pretty,
But don't judge on what you see,
I'll eat myself if you can find
A smarter hat than me.
You can keep your bowlers black,
Your top hats sleek and tall,
For I'm the Hogwarts Sorting Hat
And I can top them all.
There's nothing hidden in your head
The Sorting Hat can't see,
So try me on and I will tell you
Where you ought to be.
You might belong in Gryffindor,
Where dwell the brave at heart,
Their daring, nerve and chivalry
Set Gryffindors apart;
You might belong in Hufflepuff,
Where they are just and loyal,
Those patient Hufflepuffs are true
And unafraid of toil;
Or yet in wise old Ravenclaw,
If you've a steady mind,
Where those of wit and learning,
Will always find their kind;
Or perhaps in Slytherin
You'll make your real friends,
Those cunning folk use any means
To achieve their ends.
So put me on! Don't be afraid!
And don't get in a flap!
You're in safe hands (though I have none)
For I'm a Thinking Cap!

Lazy buggeress! :p

I never noticed that hesitation before, but when I was reading HP to the BF, I noticed it then, and thought it was interesting since we find out in bk 5 that Neville is more important that we may have previously realised.

[Radagast The Brown]

I noticed it, and remembered it, because my sister keep mentioning it. :p

Anyway... I think it could've been Hufflepuff. Nothing else - Ravenclaw doesn't fit, and niether does Slytherin.

Hufflepuff, it was said in the 5th, taught all the students that weren't choosed by one of the other founders. So it makes sense he would be there... From some odd reason he was placed in Gryffindor.

[Lizra]

I agree with Radagast. Gryfindor or Hufflepuff, but no....not Slytherin. He seems just and loyal, and brave at heart certainly...once he got a little confidence. :) Maybe the hat paused because he is complex. A diamond in the rough. :confused:

[sirigorn]

I think it's because like Lizra said, he's complex. Just not on the surface.

Oh, and BoP, I luuurve your avatar.

~Siri~

[azalea]

I have finished the first book and am almost done w/ CoS.
I did notice how long it took to place him, and pondered that. I happen to think that it took a long time because the hat had to look into his future to see what house he belonged in. I think it seems like he belongs in Hufflepuff (and I would think people would wonder how he got into Gryff.).
I may be wrong since I haven't read all the books, but my prediction at this point is that he will have an act of extreme bravery with regard to the "larger" story, that the hat could see and thus it knew that he belonged in G. OR that he will have a strong personality when he is grown, but is as a youth kind of a nerd.

[sun-star]

I read an interesting essay on this which argued that because Neville and Harry are 'doubles' in the series, the time the Sorting Hat takes to sort them shows how neither of them can be categorised as easily as the house system requires. Harry has some qualities of each house while Neville doesn't really have any of them. Therefore, the fact that these two are the key to saving the wizarding world (we assume) means the divisions of that world - into houses at Hogwarts and into Death Eaters/Ministry supporters in later life - will have to be challenged at some point.

I'm not sure I accept that conclusion, but it's an interesting idea.

[Lizra]

Thats a fancy way of saying the sorting hat isn't as smart as it thinks it is? :p Silly old hat! :D

[sun-star]

Yeah :D

[Tanoliel]

Neville's important, that's for sure...I think the hat's a nice device for most people but it's hard to just sort people like that...when they're complex and all. Neville's got a lost going on....hmm. Must go re-read books. :)

[Lizra]

There's a thread of Sf fandom that talks about the gum wrappers Neville's mom gives him, and how they might come into play later! :)

Some examples:......"Has anyone got any theories about Neville? I think he's really really important to the story because he might still be the one in the prophecy though perhaps JK would have revealed it by now. Dumbledore must have told both sets of parents because as a result, the Potters went into hiding. I think that the reason the Longbottom's didn't was because they were aurors and Voldemorte was in power, Death Eaters were everywhere. Perhaps they felt they needed to stay and do their job. Instead, they thought to protect baby Neville by putting him under a very strong memory charm, so he couldn’t tap into or ‘remember’ his magic. They didn’t tell anyone, that we know of. The Grandmother certainly doesn’t know – I don’t think I would have told her either. But, there’s always a ‘but’, Mr. & Mrs. Longbottom didn’t count on how powerful a wizard Neville was going to be. The charm worked for years, until he was about to become part of the pavement under a tall window – then he bounced. Think about it, Neville was born at the same time as Harry, so his stars were calling for a powerful wizard and his parents were both very powerful wizards or they wouldn’t have gotten their job. Neville’s power goes haywire because it overflows, after being cooped up with the charm that is still on him. Think of book 1 when the children are being given flying lessons. Neville doesn’t do anything but mount his broom and the thing takes off. We all get side tracked because of his injury and Draco’s antics that we don’t pay to much attention to the fact that the boy soared around like that without so much as one lesson before. And did you notice that the next thing Harry is doing is saving Neville’s remembrall?"

"Now, looking at book 5, when Neville visits his parents, his mother make an effort to give Neville a bubble gum wrapper. JKR likes gum, just check out her website, so this is a good thing she is giving Neville. She also gives him these often, so she must think they are important. I feel this is part of the clue. After all, she would need to continue to keep up the memory charm, if she hadn’t been cursed herself. Maybe Neville’s candy had a little spell on it? She’s a mother, trying to make sure her child doesn’t fall into Voldemort’s hands. Curse or no curse, she is still trying to help Neville"

and:...... "I do like that idea-that somewhere in her mind, she's got information that she's passing on through the wrappers, even though she can't communicate it to anyone. So Neville could have the key to the whole thing wallpapered into his closet or something, and not realize it. that would be cool."


and:......" Drooble's Best Blowing Gum is an anagram of...

Gold bribe below St. Mungos

I found this very fascinating! It might be a bit of a stretch but who knows? But I too think that there was something more to the gum wrapper than what meets the eye! (sorry if it has been posted already) If you'd like to look at other interesting HP anagrams, take a look here http://www.freewebs.com/roxieshp/thebooks.htm"

Sounds good to me! :)

[Tanoliel]

I never thought of that! :eek:

How cool...:D

[Lady Ravyn]

gold bribe below st. mungo's... someone had a lot of time on their hands to get that from droobles best blowing gum :p lol

i think the soting hat was very right in oputting neville in gryffindor; he's shown his courage numerous times throughout all 5 books. he's got a fierce determination to do as much good as can be done. na dhe's got just as much of a reason to fight as harry; sure his personality on the surface seems hufflepuff-ish, but i couldn't picture him in any other house :)

[Legoles]

I think the sorting hat hesitated because it wasn't sure if Neville was
A. A squib,
B. a Gryffindor or a Hufflepuff,
Or
C. A fire crab in disguise [I'm j/k ing, I swear!]

[sirigorn]

Legoles, Neville couldn't be a Squib. Only magical children get letters, if he wasn't magical, then he couldn't get a letter. Also, he bounced when his uncle dropped him out of the window once.

~Siri~

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Those anagrams are interesting. Do you think JK knows.

[Fimbrethil]

OMG! JKR has more or less said the reason why Neville was in Gryffindor is because of what he went through with his parents. JKR hans't said this herself but she has given you all the information in Dumbldore's speakings. Reread the book if you don't believe me. Knowing there alive and knowing them but they don't know you? He did a darn good job of handleing it all these years. And that thing...I believe you called it fandom. I call it crap. First off Neville's mom and dad do sort of know Neville they know he's someone special they care about him but other than that they're basically clueless. AND THEY AREN'T CURSED! Where in these books did you get that they were cursed? They had the ugh, I can't spell it but I'll describe it and maybe one of you can spell it, it's a forbidden curse and the user inflicts tremendous pain upon the reciever for as long as the user wishes. Frank and Alice Longbottom had this curse preformed on them for so long they went mad. Note their white hair and the fact that they didn't talk. Reread the book. I beg this entire forum to reread the books! This time retain some of the information in it! I'm in the 10th grade taking advanced courses with a buttload of homework every night and yet still I manage to reread, retain, and succsefully refute this kind of rubbish! I know you people can come with stuff better than this! Quit reading that fanfic crap because for over half of those people the books are far to complex for them.

[Tanoliel]

Cruciatus curse.
I don't think Neville's parents are particularly aware of anything...I mean, they have gone completely insane. But I wouldn't be suprised if there's something JKR hasn't told us.

[Fimbrethil]

Thank you.
Very true. I would expect her to twist somthing on us. What do oyu mean by completly aware? Alice did give him the gum wraper...use that in an example if ouy can please?

[Tanoliel]

That's true...I guess I mean that they're not as capable of intellectual reasoning and thinking and so forth as the may have been before the went insane. That's not to say that the gum wrapper doesn't have some kind of significance that Mrs. Longbottom is fixing on...or trying to tell Neville...I don't really know. We won't until the books answer...(gah, the waiting!).

[thranduil]

Reread the book. I beg this entire forum to reread the books! This time retain some of the information in it! I'm in the 10th grade taking advanced courses with a buttload of homework every night and yet still I manage to reread, retain, and succsefully refute this kind of rubbish! I know you people can come with stuff better than this! Quit reading that fanfic crap because for over half of those people the books are far to complex for them.
wow arent you special.

[BeardofPants]

Oh fim? Pull yer head outta yer ass sometime, and enjoy the sun....

[Lizra]

Soooo smart , but sooo rude....

[BeardofPants]

Sorry, liz... can't be expected to behave all the time. :D

[Lizra]

I meant FIMBRETHIL!!!! Not you! :p :D

She's been very unkind in several threads. Sapped all the joy out of the prediction game. :( :mad:

[BeardofPants]

Oh, well that's alright then. :D

So I guess it's back to asking fim who died and crawled up her butt. :rolleyes:

[Radagast The Brown]

:D You really need to change your attitude, Fim. :rolleyes:
Stop saying other people they need to read HP again, I promise you I read the 4 first books too many times. They're boring now. The fifth just sucks, so I find no reason to read it a third time.

btw, weren't they discussing before Fim's post about why the sorting hat hesitated before chossing in Gyffindor for Neville?

[BeardofPants]

Yep... that's what I opened the thread for. Not to make character assassinations at those who ostensibly need to re-read the book again. Thanks radykins, for reminding us. ;)

[Radagast The Brown]

You don't forget old jokes, eh, BoP? :p What does it mean, btw? I always thought it has something to do with pants, for some reason. :confused: :D

[BeardofPants]

"Radykins"? Pants? Lol. I have no idea what it means... I think it's just a pet name, y'know, like pumpkin, or sweet cheeks, or something. ;)

[sirigorn]

Fim, I have read the first four books countless times, at least 10 except maybe the 4th which might be around 7, and I have read the 5th three times and I was planning on reading it again soon. And I go on purely Harry Potter forums every single day, multiple forums, and I talk about Harry Potter a whole lot so pleeeeease don't talk about what you don't know. The books are huge, normal people can't remember every single detail no matter how many times you read them!!! And that thing...I believe you called it fandom. I call it crap.... Quit reading that fanfic crap because for over half of those people the books are far to complex for them. First of all, I believe that this is a fandom. So with your own (apparently nonexistent, no matter how smart you say you are) logic you are contributing to the crap that you say is fandom. If you want to see a Harry Potter fandom where people take the books seriously and dicuss it and all, as apparently we don't, go to www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums. And have you ever read a fanfic? If you have, they have got to have been bad ones. Because there are some really quality fics on the net. On FictionAlley, there is a forum with 'niffled' fics that are really good and not well known. And also on FictionAlley, read the Draco trilogy (starts with Draco Dormiens) by Cassandra Claire and Eclipse by PhoenixSong before you judge them. [flame deleted by moderator]

~Siri~

[Valandil]

Ahem... this is a warning.

We mods and admins understand that there has been some fighting in various threads of the Harry Potter forum. It has definitely reached the point where we need to step in and stop it. At this point I have only deleted the last sentence of Sirigorn's previous post (and Fimbrethil - it was not a really bad flame, but it was contrary to the spirit of our posting guidelines). I have not read all posts, so I'm definitely not pointing my finger at one person in particular. However, everyone must drop the fighting and get back to discussing Harry Potter topics... understood?

First of all, you should re-read Entmoot's rules about posting. You will find those in a thread at the top of the General Messages forum. If you have any questions, feel free to ask any of us moderators or administrators. To keep it really simple, here are some basic guidelines I'll ask you to follow as well:

1. Do not say unkind things to one another.
2. Keep the discussion about the topic - not about other Entmoot members.
3. Nobody has any business telling someone that they should not read such and such (fanfic, for instance).
4. Nobody should feel the need to tell how many times they have read the books or seen the movies in order to justify posting an opinion (not that you can't share this information - but this is not a contest to see who has read them most often).

Please understand that discussion is encouraged - and that even arguments are OK, just so they remain civil and stick to the subject. Appropriate ways to present arguments are to: (1) give your opinion (2) cite a portion of the book or movie or other bit of information which helped form that opinion ... and (3) explain why the portion you cited led you to, or reinforces that opinion. That may not be the only way to do it, but it gives you something for starters. Note that it does not include telling someone you're talking to about how wrong they are, how [whatever] they are... or what they need to do with their own, or anyone else's posterior.

Now - to move forward, I suggest that if any of you who are active in this forum feel the need to apologize to someone else in the forum, this might be a good time to do so. Also - if you think you have said some unkind things in previous posts, which you now don't think were such a good idea, it might be a good idea to go back and edit those posts. I'm not requiring that you do so though... but I AM requiring that all further posts in this forum be much kinder in spirit.

Further violations will result in such things as PM warnings, deletions of any flames or 'flame-baits'... or even entire posts, and if all else fails, closing of problem threads.

Sorry to have interrupted the flow of THIS thread with this warning... I will likely split it off of the thread before too long, but since this thread seems to contain a little of what I'm talking about, it seemed appropriate to start this here.

Thank you.

[sirigorn]

I'm sorry...I guess I get a bit out of hand, but really Fim, I know you said that you don't try to be rude or anything, but really, you are. The only reason I say things like that are that you say things that are totally mean, because obviously as this is a LotR forum, most people are more into LotR than HP, so how are they supposed to know every tiny little detail?

I'm not going to explain what I said, because if you read the entire thread, you would get it (no offense to you, Valandil!)

~Siri~

[Valandil]

...I'm not going to explain what I said, because if you read the entire thread, you would get it (no offense to you, Valandil!)

~Siri~

None taken Sirigorn. As I said, my intent wasn't to single you out... but I just deleted the one sentence in your post because it was just preceding my post.

[Lizra]

Fim....Being repeatedly rude, then saying...*I guess some people might think what I say is rude, but if you knew me, you'd realize that's just me, and not be offended*....or something along those lines...is not going to work very well. Maybe (it will work) with people who are very close to you, and love you.... but believe me, if you say things that "could be" construed as rude, most/some people WILL be offended. Count on it! :p
Please phrase your remarks with care, and save the sarcasm for the school bus chums. I went through the apology thing the first time you were rude and insulting to me, I'm too busy to repeat myself.

[Nurvingiel]

Wow... it started out as a normal thread... Aaaaanayway...

Neville is my favourite character! I think the hesitation surrounding his placement was because the Hat was torn between Hufflepuff and Gryffindor. As we have seen on several occasions (like when he fought Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle, or when he stood up to Hermione) Neville is extremely brave. He is also kind and at times, timid - good Hufflepuff qualities.

So I can see that the Hat would hesitate between those two, as it did with Harry and Gryffindor and Slytherin. (For Harry, I think this hesitation also represents his self-conflicting nature, if that made sense.)

And wow, Lizra, those were some really amazing insights into Neville! :eek: Cool. I bet JKR knows about the anagram, nothing seems to happen by accident in these books.

[Fimbrethil]

Lizra I believe the "apology thing" was between Sirigorn and I. It's my opinion and I won't change it. I do apologize for how I said it. But as I'm sure you all know it's hard to get your mood or tone across over the internet. And Sirigorn I did read the whole post and I do get it.
People are waaaaaay to easily offened. I won't apologize again that I say, unless I completely loss my temper and you see the real rude me.

Nurvingiel I agree with you about Neville.

PS. BeardofPants, if something died how could it then crawl up my butt? I prefer what crawled up your butt and died. (In case you all haven't noticed I don't really care what you say about me...that's whats worng with the wrold today, people care far to much.)

[BeardofPants]

:rolleyes: Are we done? Good, then perhaps we can get back onto topic.

[azalea]

EVERYONE -- stop talking about personal matters and off-topic stuff in the thread.
If ANYONE here needs to say anything else about that topic, or any topic unrelated to Neville, PM the person or persons. Any more off-topic comments and this thread will be closed. I will consider the offender(s) to be in violation of an administrative request, possibly resulting in punitive action. Thank you.

[Nurvingiel]

Wow... it started out as a normal thread... Aaaaanayway...

Neville is my favourite character! I think the hesitation surrounding his placement was because the Hat was torn between Hufflepuff and Gryffindor. As we have seen on several occasions (like when he fought Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle, or when he stood up to Hermione) Neville is extremely brave. He is also kind and at times, timid - good Hufflepuff qualities.

So I can see that the Hat would hesitate between those two, as it did with Harry and Gryffindor and Slytherin. (For Harry, I think this hesitation also represents his self-conflicting nature, if that made sense.)

And wow, Lizra, those were some really amazing insights into Neville! :eek: Cool. I bet JKR knows about the anagram, nothing seems to happen by accident in these books.
Ahem... discuss! Discuss before this great thread is closed. I love Neville, he has been my favourite character since the first book, before we even knew he was so noble and cool! (Even though I always thought he was brave.)

Thoughts?

[BeardofPants]

So... No one thinks that it's at all probably that Neville was marked by Voldemort, and NOT Harry, and that this is what could have caused the hat to hesitate?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I think the Hat wasn't sure. Maybe he found something inside Neville's head that suggested that it was a mental marking not phyisical(sp), and that Neville possesed the same qualities as Harry, bravery, daring, disrespect for rues, but they were hidden by the grief of what had happened to his parents.

[Nurvingiel]

Hm... I never thought of that. *ponders* But if this were the case, wouldn't Dumbledore have told Harry this when he 'told all' at the end of the fifth book? Knowing that Neville was Voldemort's 'opposite' instead of Harry would certainly take quite a load off his shoulders. (If that is in fact what you meant.)

Very interesting point BoP! :)

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

It was but Dumbledore wouldn't nesseceraly (sp) know would he.

[azalea]

No, I think Dumbledore had it right. I mean, I could be wrong in the end, but I truly think that Harry was the one Voldemort marked by choosing him as his target. He [i]could[i] have chosen either one, but he chose Harry, so Harry must be the one to which the prophecy refers. I think we'll see something great from Neville, though. He is a great character; I liked him more after each book.

[BeardofPants]

Yes, but dumbledore has been known in the past to have not divulged ALL the information...

[azalea]

True, and I think more info will be forthcoming. But for this one question, [i]I[i] think he gave the right answer (ie, Harry is the One). But I really can't wait to see what's up with those gum wrappers! :D I'm sure there's a lot more info about Neville and his family we'll be getting.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Maybe there was another prophecy, that no one witnessed. Prophecising great deeds for Neville.

[Nurvingiel]

No, I think Dumbledore had it right. I mean, I could be wrong in the end, but I truly think that Harry was the one Voldemort marked by choosing him as his target.
If the prophecy was made about the one Voldemort marked, but Voldemort fulfilled the prophecy by attacking him, isn't that circular?

You all make very good points about possibilities for Neville. Voldemort did go after him as well didn't he? Or did he attack Neville's parents simply because they were Aurors and powerful wizards? I'm confused on that point.

[Radagast The Brown]

You all make very good points about possibilities for Neville. Voldemort did go after him as well didn't he? Or did he attack Neville's parents simply because they were Aurors and powerful wizards? I'm confused on that point.It is said that the child in the prophecy was(/will be) born to a family that escaped Voldemort 3 times (IIRC) in the past. Voldemort did want both the Longbottoms and Potters dead - because they were in the Order. I think.
But since it's also said something about the one Voldemort chooses, and Voldemort chose Harry - it cannot be Neville by the prophecy.

[thranduil]

It is said that the child in the prophecy was(/will be) born to a family that escaped Voldemort 3 times (IIRC) in the past. Voldemort did want both the Longbottoms and Potters dead - because they were in the Order. I think.
But since it's also said something about the one Voldemort chooses, and Voldemort chose Harry - it cannot be Neville by the prophecy.
exactly. i agree. [flame deleted]

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Let's not start that again.

[thranduil]

i dont remember ever writing that.......strange...........

[Nurvingiel]

It is said that the child in the prophecy was(/will be) born to a family that escaped Voldemort 3 times (IIRC) in the past. Voldemort did want both the Longbottoms and Potters dead - because they were in the Order. I think.
But since it's also said something about the one Voldemort chooses, and Voldemort chose Harry - it cannot be Neville by the prophecy.
Right. That's what I thought, but now I'm confused.

Maybe you meant something else BoP? Regardless of the details of the prophecy, Neville and Harry are definitely connected. They're good friends, and they probably would have been without the prophecy, even though it was often evil attacks by Voldemort that threw them together.

[azalea]

Maybe when they grow up (assuming Neville doesn't die :o) they'll be partner Aurors or something! :)

[Nurvingiel]

Yeah! *hugs Neville* I often cheer for underdog characters in books, but Neville is truly a great character. He's interesting, complex, brave, has a mysterious past, and humorous. What's not to love? ;)

I think Neville would be a great Auror. I don't know if that's what is in store for Harry though. Somehow it seems to obvious, even though both he and Ron would be excellent. I would laugh if Hermione because an Auror after she said "I want to do something more worthwhile." :D

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Well that could well be what Neville said in his interview with Mcgonogall(sp).

[Nurvingiel]

What was that interview? Refresh my memory please. I've only read book 5 once, about 2 months after it first came out.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

The careers advice. Maybe Neville to said he wanted to be an Auror.

[Nurvingiel]

Oh right. (What book was that in? The first one?) Of course, we don't know what he said, but I think that's very possible. :)