Male moon & female sun

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

whilst reading through my books,
I have noticed that the moon is often
referred to as being male, whilst the
sun is usually referred to as being female.
Is there a reson for this differentiation,
as most cultures refer to both the sun
and moon as being female, as most objects in nature.

[Ñólendil]

Actually in world mythologies I more often find that the sun is male, and the moon female. And in Hindu mythology (for example) both are male.

There is a reason though for Tolkien's female Sun and male moon. If you look to Tolkien's mythology, as seen in The Silmarillion and other texts, you will find that the Maiar guiding the Sun and Moon are female and male, respectively. The Maia of the Sun is Arien, whom I believe was either a servant of Vána the Everyoung or Varda (Elbereth Gilthoniel). The Maia of the moon is Tilion, a servant of Orome the hunter. Hence in the Lord of the Rings the Sun is "she" and the moon is "he".

If you know all this and are asking for more specific information, my apologies.

[Radagast The Brown]

I think that Telperion and Laurelyn were male and feamle as well - that's what written in my Silmarillion - and so their fruits/flowers would have the same gender... logically.

[brownjenkins]

many religions/cultures have the 'mother earth' concept... dieties concerned with nature often being female... most likely due to the obvious, that new life springs from the female... with a little help of course ;)... the sun also has this 'birth' aspect about it

[Valandil]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
many religions/cultures have the 'mother earth' concept... dieties concerned with nature often being female... most likely due to the obvious, that new life springs from the female... with a little help of course ;)... the sun also has this 'birth' aspect about it

Yes... I think that's why the sun commonly has a male association... it's seen as 'fertilizing' mother earth (can I say that on a PG-13 board? :eek: :o ). The moon, by contrast, is often given a female association because of its mysterious nature I imagine (as a female is mysterious to the male mind) - and perhaps to further contrast it from the sun. At least those associations are common in the heritage of western civilization.

I DID notice Tolkien's reversal of this gender association - and I'm not sure why he did this... also, didn't he have the sun and moon initially rising in the west and setting in the east? And the moon was always a bit more unsteady in its course and irregular in its motion, or something like that?

[brownjenkins]

i know there is at least some discussion by CT on this in lost tales... which has a greatly extended version of the sun/moon story

not on hand at the moment though

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i would like to thank everyone for the thoughts posted here
it is nice to have a bit of serious discussion :)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Doesn't Greek mythology depict the sun as female and the moon as male, the moon chasing the sun but never being able to catch her?

I remember seeing an episode of Star Trek NG, called "Masks" where this ancient culture took over the Enterprise and all these artifacts started appearing with symbols on them. There were some interesting ideas in this episode about the sun being female and the moon being male. It was like the sun was powerful, and the moon was trying to catch up with her, but whenever he came close, he was burned and he feared her. I also remember reading something, I think it was in the HoMe series, can't remember which volume, where CT talks about this, and also gives a reason for why at times the sun and moon will appear in the sky at the same time.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

SGH, that episode of TNG was very good, the male moon hunting the female sun, but never being able to catch her, and the greek female sun is interesting as the sun god was actually male (apollo), and the moon was a goddess! However, this is quite a common theme with the greeks, the sea was always portrayed as female, and yet Poseidon was god of the sea, it would seem that the mycaeneans like their opposites!!