Will Sirius Return

[Elessar the Elfstone]

I was wondering would it be possible for Sirius to return, his body was never seen was it?

Mabye he would return as a dog, James returned as harry's patronus as a stag didn't he

What do you think? :confused:

I'm reserving judgment on if he is or not but I thought it would be intreasting to see what everyone thought

[Radagast The Brown]

Hmmm... Unfortunately, I don't reckon Sirius will return in the next 2 books. Rowling specifically mentioned in the 5th book he won't return, and I can't really see how would he.
But I'm not sure - Rowling made some surprises already.

[Lizra]

I don't think he will out and out return, but I wonder if Harry might be able to access him in some form, or perhaps learn that Sirius is on some other level of consciousness, and then be relieved of some of his sadness. I could do with a nice subplot about ghosts! :)

[Fimbrethil]

DOES ANYONE ON THIS THREAD REMEMBER THE STUPID MIRRIOR????????!!!!!!!!! I can't remember if anyone else has said it but I know I have on numerous occasions and no one knows what the bloody hell I'm talking about! Here is a link read it and pay close attention to anything about a mirrior. http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/JKRWorldBookDay2004.html

Now...the only question left to be answered is how does the mirrior come into play? It could have been on Sirius when he died and therefore give Harry a "link" to the afterlife. Or Harry could find it and then he and Ron or whoever would do lots of mischief...but I don't think that's it.

[Lizra]

Oh Fimbre...... Please calm down dear! ;) I do remember the mirror! (now that you mention it) :) And now that I read the link...I can't wait! I assume "Oooh, good question" means the mirror will be of some use. Yea! :D

Oh...Surely Sirius had the mirror tucked away in a pocket when he fell. Hermoine will probably figure out what the mirror is, and how to use it. I don't remember exactly what Harry did with it. Didn't he toss it?

[Elf Girl]

Oh, I really hope Sirius doesn't come back and Harry can't talk to him. That would be so cheap. Ugh. If she wants to put death in the books, she should actually put it in, not throw a little in for thrills and then erase it.

[Lizra]

Cheap! :D You crack me up EG! (Now I can be lazy and type you EG, since Eruvial Greenleaf has morphed into a Miss Magpie :) ) Maybe when they finally get the mirror to work, there will be a litlle moving wizard picture saying "I'm sorry, this reflection has been disconnected" :p )

[sirigorn]

I agree with Elf Girl here. Remember, Harry did try to use the mirror after Sirius died, but it didn't work. So JKR said that it'll appear again. Maybe he didn't have it with him when he died, and then someone finds it at 12 Grimmauld Place, and gives the other half to someone. I really think he won't come back, much as I want him to.

[Lizra]

Yes...but Harry probably didn't use it "correctly"! ;) Can't you just see the mirror appearing early on in the next book, Harry telling Hermoine and Ron what it was supposed to do (bummed and flatly depressed about the fact that he never got the chance to use it, and now it's "worthless"). Hermoine's interest is naturally piqued, she asks Harry for the mirror, he easily says "take it, take it!" After several chapters busy in the library, Hermoine returns with the mirror (in the nick of time for some intense action) and shows Harry the correct way to use the fabulous object, and Harry summons his godfather for some much needed help and guidance? Sure! :D

[Elf Girl]

...Hermoine? Do you mean Hermione?

But honestly, death is death. I can't stand books that trivialize it with necromancy. If Harry could talk to Sirius, what would his death be worth? Sirius's death would become just a cheap thrill to scare the readers, since Harry of course wouldn't be emotional anymore if he could still talk to him.

*wonders if that made any sense*

[Lizra]

yeah! I'll probably continue to mispell it, so don't get too annoyed with me EG. :D

I think it would be *good vibes* if Sirius came back...in some form or another. A nice emotional roller coaster. I like it. :) Why does death have to be so permanent in a wild and crazy world of ghosts, talking portraits, spirits living without bodies and talking diaries? You know.... the author's imagination is really the only limit. Think Outback Restaurant"! :D "No rules...Just right!" Anyway, lots of people think Sirius coming back would be "Just right!" :) Harry Potter in particular. I'm tired of him being such a dreary, depressed teenager anyway. ;)

[sun-star]

I absolutely agree. So much emphasis was placed on Sirius' death and its effect on Harry that if all of a sudden Hermione was to come in (to take Lizra's idea :)) and say "it's OK Harry, guess what, you can contact Sirius after all!" it would be a huge anticlimax, IMO. JKR has said many times that these books will tackle death and war in a realistic* way because to do anything else is like lying to her child readers. I hope for a happy ending eventually, but not one where all of the main characters have been miraculously saved from grief and death.

Also, I'm personally of the opinion that the mirror actually represents lack of communication, a theme in Book 5, and will therefore be used as a plot device in a later book as things start to get better for Harry and co. Just speculation :)



*as realistic as possible, I suppose, given that they're fantasy :D

[Lizra]

Well, we will just have to wait and see! :) I hope for fun. Screw death! :D

[sirigorn]

I wish that Sirius hadn't been killed, but you know, I would be soooo disappointed if Harry found a way to contact him. Unless he dies and there's this scene up in heaven, which I find highly unlikely. I entirely agree with sun-star, that situation would be so anticlimatic. I think there will be a major death in each of the next two books, and I'm almost sure from many hints JKR let slip that Ron will die in one of them. She wants to depict war realistically, she has to kill people. They are fighting a war, people die in wars. Well, at least I know that my fave character that hasn't died yet won't die in the 6th book, as JKR said Remus would have a big part in the 7th. He could die there, of course.

~Siri~

[Lizra]

Since we seem to have some different, yet very interesting opinions of what should happen next....it might be fun if we did *outlines* of the next book (our personal version! :D )

Sort of like this...

Charter I.....Mrs. Figg reveals Aunt Petunia's humiliation at being turned down by Hogwarts. Dudley gets horrible acne.

Chapter II....Hermione (sp? :p ) spots the mirror Sirius gave Harry while riding the Hogwarts Express. Harry gives it to her since he feels it is worthless.

Chapter III....The new Professor of Dark Arts is.....

You get the idea? They outlines wouldn't have to be totally filled in, some chapters could be "TBA". They wouldn't have to be serious either! Well, it's might be a fun little writing/ imagination exercise. Would anyone else be interested in doing this?

[Fimbrethil]

I think that would be a bit much, ya? There's going to be like...50 billion chapters in the next book...if we were to do that you'd have ot asign chapters for people to predict, get them posted and revised by everyone then sort of turn it into a game. Wait till the book comes out and see how much of it we got right...including the number of chapters. But then again it would be really vague stuff we would have to put in it....could work though. We'd have to get the whole thread involoved for something that massive....post links to back up some of our predictions...that kind of thing.

It made me sad when Sirius died. But, thinking about it...he was an extra character that she couldn't do anyhting with. Exxcept throw him in here and there saying "Be a good boy Harry and don't worry your parents love you." If she had kept him it would have a whole book or the better part of one to do anything that could even remotley connect him wiht the outside world where he could do somthing useful. I agree wiht sunstar. It would be nice but just not real.

I appologize for getting uppety before, but the mirrior was at the tail end of the book and it seemed odd that very few woudl forget it that fast. It did make Harry really mad. By the way I'm going to start that thread I talked about and Lizra gave me the idea for so visit it.

[Lizra]

Hmmm, I might do one anyway...just for fun! :D

[Fimbrethil]

HAHA! Beat you to the punch! BLAHHAHAHAHAHAHA! Midnight suger rush....I can't help it. Hmmm...going to check my e-mails now...I'll be back later.

[AntiXZer01]

Maybe this was already asked i dont know, in the harry potter movie Sirius Black did not die. if he died in the book, how will they pull of a still living black in the harry potter future!? and also did he die in the books???

[Elf Girl]

Sirius died in the FIFTH book. The THIRD movie is the one that just came out. Presumably, he will die in the FIFTH movie as well.

[Gulio, Strength of Many]

Originally posted by sirigorn
I wish that Sirius hadn't been killed, but you know, I would be soooo disappointed if Harry found a way to contact him. Unless he dies and there's this scene up in heaven,

How do you know he's in Heaven? :)

I think it'd really suck if Sirius came back. Bleargh, the thought maketh me sick. I read in the newspaper a while ago that JKR cried for a week after writing that chapter, but wouldn't even tell her husband what was wrong (:D). I don't think she'd do that if she were going to bring him back. And that would suck if she did, too :)

[Elessar the Elfstone]

i've just read the link from Fimbrethil further up the page and it also says that there was a reason for Sirius's death so somethings got to happen to do with him the the next two books has'nt it?

[Elf Girl]

Er... no... couldn't the reason just be something like giving Harry a taste of what life might be like as an Auror, or helping him grow up, or something like that?

[Sono]

I wish that Sirius hadn't been killed. I was realy sad as I read that chapter :rolleyes:
I will be happy if he return, but I don't belive that...
He's gone, I think.... :(

[Gulio, Strength of Many]

*Does happy dance* He's gone! Gone gone gone! Oh... right. Boo hoo, and all that. *Puts on flame-proof suit* :)

[Tanoliel]

Oh, pooh on you. :p

I was really sad he was gone--he was one of my favorite characters, along with Remus--but really I'm sad he went because he was such a link for Harry to his father, and the past and all. Remus is too, but Sirius seems more compelling--as a bit of a bad boy, flying motorbikes and the prankster best friend of his father--and that loss is (as much as I HATE the phrase) a huge character-building moment. (Uck. Got that outta the way.)

On the other hand...there have been some mentions that Sirius coming back would make his death "cheap." I dunno...it was sort of cheap to begin with. Okay--not cheap (ducks flames), but very, very....hmm. Hard to say. Just that it was shocking, but not because he died--because of the way he died. I read it, stopped, went, "hold on, what just happened?" It seemed very fast and unrealistic. Falling through a veil? What does that mean, anyway?
I guess the only thing I mean by that is that I wouldn't be suprised if Sirius "came back" somehow...or communicated somehow. Because his death hardly felt like "dying"--it didn't feel very real--I can see how he might be able to not actually be DEAD-dead.

(EG--Necromancy doesn't have to be cheap. Off-topic entirely, have you read Garth Nix?)

[Lizra]

Yep, you're right Tano! His so called "death" was cheap! :D Not THAT sacred! :p

[Elessar the Elfstone]

finally someone believes he may not be 100% dead and that it may be possible for him to come back!!!!!:) and I also agree his so called death was cheap!

[Elfmaster XK]

I think that perhaps the way Sirius died was done in that way to show Harry how easy it is to lose people. Like, a lesson in how the war is real, and dangerous, and people die. In war people are just killed. One minute they're there and the next they're not. In school Harry and the others have been relatively safe. This will show how it can happen to anyone.

And Sirius is gone everyone. Let him RIP. :rolleyes:

[Tanoliel]

True, EXK....but I still think it was just a little too clean, if you know what I mean. Hmm. We'll see. (Argh, wish I knew now though!) :)

[Rûdhaglarien]

I was very nearly very angry with JKR for killing off Sirius. But, I got over it... sort of. And, I have to say, though I would be pleasantly surprised and I would probably *squee* with delight when it happened, I don't want him to come back.

It would just make it too fantasy, y'know? For me, the best part of fantasy is what links it to reality and yourself. Death is how JKR makes HP real, not fake. The death of Sirius helps to bring the story home and equalize it with out world; it allows us to touch the HP world and feel as if it could be real.

So... I wouldn't mind her bringing him back, and I certainly wouldn't complain. But, I don't believe, in any way, that it should be done.

[Willow Oran]

It doesn't feel like Sirius is dead in the strongest sense of the word. As far as I remember, there was the battle scene and he got hit with an unspecified curse and fell through the veil in a sort of literary slow motion and all that was said after that was that he was 'gone' and that the mirror didn't work. We know nothing about what was behind the veil, what sort of curse he got hit with or anything, all we know he that he fell and is presumed dead. We have nothing but the characters words to confirm that presumption and the author, the only person who knows for sure, isn't telling, and is known for throwing in surprising plot twists. I'm not considering any character in these books to be dead until either their ghost, or their corpse has been described to us in full.

As for characters not dieing in full being cheap, would you call Gandalf's 'death' a cheap trick? Glorfindel's? Wesley's, in the 'Princess Bride'? Aslan's?
It's an old trick certainly, but I wouldn't call it cheap. :rolleyes:

[Spock]

Well Dumbledore did tell Harry that "he cannot come back" and indicated that the doorway was one way ..sort of a portal to lost souls. If "D" says he can't come back, I'd tend to believe him.

[Lalaith_Elf]

I don't think he's totally gone. He'll find some way to return, even if it is only for a few minutes. The mirror is still a bit of a mystery, and the veil....

I think that killing him off was a good move, as it was a death that affected Harry in a great way. Killing off another less-signifigant character wouldn't have had the same impact. It means that Harry has more hatred towards Voldy and the Death Eaters.

I don't think that we can say that there is absolutly no way that he's returning, because there has been too many questions about his death left uncovered.

[Spock]

Gee you are very optimistic considering that nothing like this has happened in the world of H.P.

[Lalaith_Elf]

Call it my 'being-forced-out-of-a-pessimistic-view-on-life' phase. :rolleyes:

[Spock]

:lol: :cool:

[Fimbrethil]

I cna honestly say that I'm disappointed this thread is still in disscusion. JKR made Dumbldore say that Sirius was gone. His death wasn't cheap...but now I think it should have been suspected. He's not going to return JKr has basically told us that he's not. As I've said in other threads just reread the book. Everything we need to kow for the other books are staring us in the face. It just takes the right kind of mind to see them.

[Spock]

Indeed! :(

[Fimbrethil]

Are you agreeing with me?

[Spock]

Are you agreeing with me?

Indeed!

[Fimbrethil]

Well, then thank you.

[Spock]

Anon? I'm impressed. :)

[Elessar the Elfstone]

Fimbrethil I don't think you should critisize threads you personally don't agree with.

nobody will know if anything will happen with sirius untill we have all read both book 6 and book 7 I only started this thread to hear peoples opinions

And Fimbrethil I've read the last few chapters of the book and lots of people say he's gone but nobody says dead, nowhere does it officially state he is dead.

If anyone does find a quote that say the words sirius if dead please tell me!

[Elessar the Elfstone]

Fimbrethil I don't think you should critisize threads you personally don't agree with.

sorry about that it's just this is my first thread I've started that a decent amount of people have replied to, sorry.

[Pytt]

if sirius would gome back? certainly i hope so,because i like the character, but i don't see why he should. off course he is a great wisard in the battle against voldemort, but there is other who is just as great as he is. unless rowling makes him come back if he is important to the story, whit some information for harry abput some urgent matters. or dumbeldor for that matter. but i don't think so.

[Fimbrethil]

Anon? I'm impressed. :)

Well, thank you. I try to use an advanced vocabulary when I can but usually I'm just lucky if I spell it right.

It's understandable that you wouldn't want your thread critized. Who does? But the whole point of this website is to bascially discuss opinion isn't it? I mena none of us (as far as I know) are in anyones inner circle (the authers Tolkien, Rowling, and Lucas or the director Jackson. I'm including the HP movie directors becuase I'm still sore about the disgusting third movie) so this is all basically what we think? That's what I think. If you don't like it then ignore it.

[Elessar the Elfstone]

If you don't like it then ignore it. well put (I think :confused: )

[tolkienfan]

I think that if he does come back it will be in an unexpected way. After all, Lily and James died, didn't they! They come back in all sorts of ways! :)

[inked]

See JK Rowlings remarks about this subject at:

http://www.madamscoop.org/themes/therules.htm

She states clearly and repeatedly in the interviews extracted and cited that no magic can raise the truly dead as a ground rule in her universe . That doesn't mean there can't be some communication - as in the Mirror of Erised, prior incantatem, etc. :D

[Spock]

Indeed, clear as a Muggle can put it. :D

[strider8]

I would like that to happen but I doubt it will :(

[Spock]

A few from the quoted url: One of the rules she has for her books is that "Magic cannot bring dead people back to life…. Once you’re dead, you’re dead."
No magic power can resurrect a truly dead person.

[tolkienfan]

That doesn't mean there can't be some communication - as in the Mirror of Erised, prior incantatem, etc. :D

Exactly! (interesting link btw)

[emily leonard]

wishfull thinkin bt it ant goin 2 hapin bt he might of left sumthim behind! ;)

[Elessar the Elfstone]

i never asked if sirius would be broughtback from the dead, I just wondered if there would be possibly some sort of reencarnation possibly into a dog or some sort of communication with harry in some way

PS i'm very glad my thread is still going after nearly a whole year!

[Nurvingiel]

Are you guys really sure he's dead? All he did was fall behind a veil in the Department of Mysteries. Meh. ;)

But seriously, given that Voldemort keeps ressurtecting himself, and no one is as they seem, I think Sirius very well could return from where ever he is. (Though the text did have a final note, I'll give you that.)

[Elessar the Elfstone]

i'm glad i'm not te only one wo considers the possibillity of sirius being alive



i thought maybe the veil was the entrance to a place inbetween life and death,

[Pytt]

I haven't reallt thought about it, but I can't say I'm convinced he's dead. Agree about place between life and death. But I am far from sure. And how should he get out?

[Nurvingiel]

i thought maybe the veil was the entrance to a place inbetween life and death,
I think this is true - and it's probably the biggest obstacle to our theory. ;)

[inked]

The wildly popular and erudite Professor Lupin said Sirius was gone and could not come back. He kept Harry from passing the veil. Dead, DEad, DEAd, DEAD is Sirius.

Voldemort has NOT been killed and therefore, Nurv, not resurrected. Re-embodied after a very near-death experience as a "wraith"; faded to minimal life (think LeStat the Vampire as a worm for decades), but not dead.

Sorry. Sirius is NOT coming back. But, there may be communication if being in the OOTP means what I think it does! :D

[azalea]

And what is that? I didn't see it mentioned, although I haven't read all of every thread.

[inked]

azalea,

#50 in this thread

And the mirror that Sirius gave to Harry which got tucked into the trunk and forgotten until after Sirius' death PLUS my comments in the Christian Themes in HP thread.

edit: from roughly #47 forward in that thread

[Beregond]

I'm not sure if anyone has said this because i can't be bothered to read the the whole thread but James didn't come back, it was what harry saw as he passed out. I dont think serius should come back but i think its a possibility becuase his death happened very quickly and rowling didn't make a big deal of it.

[King of The Istari]

Well as we can see now Sirius was harldy mentioned in a half blood prince,
apart from at the beggining when harry is still coming to terms with his death

I think this would be intresting, is if at each horcrux he could comunicate with one of the people in his life who have died, so sirius helps him with one horcrux, his mother helps with one, his father helps with one and cedric helps with one and then finally somehow Dumbledore helps him defeat voldemort

only a theory but an intresting one, 5 people in harry's life have died and there are 5 pieces of voldemorts soul left to destroy (including voldemort himself)

I repeat this is only a theory!

[Nurvingiel]

The wildly popular and erudite Professor Lupin said Sirius was gone and could not come back. He kept Harry from passing the veil. Dead, DEad, DEAd, DEAD is Sirius.

Voldemort has NOT been killed and therefore, Nurv, not resurrected. Re-embodied after a very near-death experience as a "wraith"; faded to minimal life (think LeStat the Vampire as a worm for decades), but not dead.
Absolutely correct Inked, and I understand this in light of HBP. (HBP spoilers:)
With all the information about the Horcruxes, now I know what was really going on... well, sort of.

Sorry. Sirius is NOT coming back. But, there may be communication if being in the OOTP means what I think it does! :D
I agree.

This post is slightly incoherent at this late hour... :rolleyes:

[inked]

Fascinating speculations in this thread that were answered in Deathly Hallows.
What do we think of all our concerns back then now that we have the answers Rowling did give us?

Lizra was spot on about Petunia but not about who told the story, for instance.

[tolkienfan]

It's funny to read this thread now, thanks inked!


(and I was right! :cool: )

[Fohel]

Sirius's death would become just a cheap thrill to scare the readers, since Harry of course wouldn't be emotional anymore if he could still talk to him.



Everyone keeps going on about how it would completely ruin the book if Sirius did come back to life. Yet we all like Lord of the Rings. When I last read the book a certain wizard falls off a bridge and dies fighting a fire demon. He comes back to life again. Surely this isn't just a "cheap thrill."

Rowling has killed off ALL my favourite characters. I know its to make everything harder for Harry but couldn't Sirius and all the other characters just be busy doing other things to fight Voldermort. This would prevent them helping Harry and they wouldn't need to die.

[Star]

ok people, i know this sounds weird, but what about the talking paintings? Like the fat lady of Gryfindor? MAybe if there is a painting of Sirius somewher in grimhauld place harry could talk to the painting? it's kinda suspicious to me. Of course he can't come back, but a painting makes a little sense.

[brakeonthroo]

I love Harry Potter!!

Matt J

[Fohel]

ok people, i know this sounds weird, but what about the talking paintings? Like the fat lady of Gryfindor? MAybe if there is a painting of Sirius somewher in grimhauld place harry could talk to the painting? it's kinda suspicious to me. Of course he can't come back, but a painting makes a little sense.

Good idea but I doubt that any of family painted a pciture of him. They hated him so much that he ran away from home and they burnt his name off the tapestry. I wish he would come back though. :(