Two Towers: Shelob

[Farimir]

In the two towers book they say that Shelob is the most dangerous moster ever, but when Sam fights her he doen't get a scrach on him(or so it says). Any reasons? And by the way, I have lord of the rings smileys here. Go ahead and add them. http://s7.invisionfree.com/Gamercheat/index.php?act=Post&CODE=00&f=15

[Twista]

Hello there Farimir!

You might want to indroduce your self in the Welcome thread in the General Forum.

Also i think this may be moved and closed to the movie forum. If you have comments on the film there is a already a thread to make such statements.

Welcome though! :)

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Twista
...Also i think this may be moved and closed to the movie forum. If you have comments on the film there is a already a thread to make such statements.

Why? He's asking a book question. :confused: ;)

Oh - and Farimir - I don't know... maybe Sam just got lucky? Maybe he got some divine protection?

[Twista]

Meh silly me.

Thot he was comparing the book to how in the film Sam still looks he just came out of 'make up'.

:D

Ps. Easy Val! :p

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Twista
Ps. Easy Val! :p

Oh come on... I didn't mean "got lucky" in THAT kind of way! :o :p ;)

[Radagast The Brown]

Where did you read that Shelob was the most dangerous monster ever? I found in page 707 the first description about her, and didn't find that she was the most dangerous ever.

She was dangerous still, and I also think as Val, that Sam was( :p) lucky.

[Farimir]

The Phil of Galadril would mabye have protected him, so your right. Thanks!

[Farimir]

Well, I remember it saying that somwhere. Right now, I'm only on the Return of the King(The Passing of the Grey company)

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Farimir
The Phil of Galadril would mabye have protected him, so your right. Thanks! But can Galadriel protect him from the 'most dangerous monster ever' (assuming you're right)? I don't think so... If Morgoth was almost beaten (but saved by his great army) by Ungoliant, probably Galadriel could not win Shelob (if it was the most dangerous monster)

[Farimir]

Well, I cant think of any other dangerous monster( exept Nazgul)

[Tuor of Gondolin]

How about the Watcher in the Water, and were the wolves that attacked the Fellowship magical and/or werewolves?

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Farimir
Well, I cant think of any other dangerous monster( exept Nazgul) I can think of some. Ungoliant was probably stronger after 'eating' the two trees. I think some dragons would be more dangerous too, and definitely a balrog, no?

[Lalaith_Elf]

Well he was a gardener, so maybe he just knew how to kill pesky spiders easily.:p

[Earniel]

I suppose Shelob underestimated Samwise the Brave. She hadn't been confronted and denied a prey for a very long time, possibly longer than she could remember. She was so used being fed and taking on solitary prey that she didn't expect any opposition. Least of all by a tiny tasty titbit. ;)

Above that Samwise was armed with the phial and the starlight in it. Shelob hadn't seen such a light in a very long time.

In a way it's an odd kind of justice that the brood of Ungoliant, who destroyed the light of the Trees, was brought to defeat by that same light that had been caught in Eärendil's Silmaril.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Earniel
In a way it's an odd kind of justice that the brood of Ungoliant, who destroyed the light of the Trees, was brought to defeat by that same light that had been caught in Eärendil's Silmaril.
________________________
Very good! (Wish I had thought of that). I wonder if Tolkien did that deliberately (even though he didn't know if much of his mythology would ever be published) or if it was just a coincidence, as some would call it.

[Farimir]

Mabye I read it wrong. And yes, Balrogs are defintly mor dangerous.

[Forkbeard]

Originally posted by Farimir
In the two towers book they say that Shelob is the most dangerous moster ever, but when Sam fights her he doen't get a scrach on him(or so it says). Any reasons? And by the way, I have lord of the rings smileys here. Go ahead and add them. http://s7.invisionfree.com/Gamercheat/index.php?act=Post&CODE=00&f=15

Sure, Shelob is busy webbing Frodo when Sam comes from behind, hacks off a claw and then gets under her out of reach of her stinger, claws, and beak, then comes from under as she is looking down for him, and stabs her in the eye, then back under and she decides to sit on him, and well, Sting stung......in short, a surprise charge, a bit of luck with the eye thing, and the rest is history.

Forkbeard

[Nimbrethil]

hmmm,
maybe, it was the fate of Sam, to wounded Shelop.
Imho, Tolkien worked often with the fate and the act of fate.

(why, calls the spider at enlish Shelop an at german Kankra?)

And, like Earniel say, Shelop underestimated Sam and Sam was littel und to this time very angry and that gave him the brav.

Nimbrethil

[Farimir]

So it turns out to be a mystery.

[Rosie Gamgee]

It might have something to do with Shelob's eating habits- she wouldn't want to hurt Sam in any other way than to sting him at first; why would she want to scratch him and risk him bleeding to death, therefore making him an untasty meal? After the light came out, she was half-blind, so you get the impression that she was striking in the dark with no idea where Sam was, so he could easily dodge her. Then, when she finally realized he was underneath her, she poked herself in the belly. :rolleyes: dumb spider... ;)

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Farimir
Mabye I read it wrong. And yes, Balrogs are defintly mor dangerous. Not to metion dragons, winged dragons, were-bears, varius malicious Mair in Morgoths service. Shelob just specilised in ambush of individuals, she did not take on entire companies of warriors, and the orcs could have clead her out of there with an expiedition in forces if Sauron would have allowed them.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
...and the orcs could have clead her out of there with an expiedition in forces if Sauron would have allowed them.

I agree... and I imagine that clearing her out of her den may well have been one of the things high on King Elessar's 'To Do' list after coming to the throne, so ease passage on the roads and to rid the earth of her, if nothing else. Smoke her out, toss in burning oil or something... with companies of well-armed soldiers at all the exits.

I mean - it's not like it'd be easy - it would take some doing. But I think they would have done it.

[Beruthiel's cat]

Of course, a more ecologically friendly approach could also be taken (considering Shelob is, after all, part of an "endangered species"). Perhaps she could be captured and re-located to an orc-infested area. (Orcs wouldn't seem to be an endangered species, even after the War of the Ring). There she would be free to live out her life and reduce the population of those pesky orcs without endangering the general population of Gondor.

(Of course, capturing and sedating her for the long journey to the Misty Mountains or wherever, could prove to be a challenge...)

[Beren3000]

I don't think Shelob would be considered an "endangered species" but rather an "endangering species" :D

[Farimir]

Hey youguys. I'll be back in nine days starting saturday!:(

Seeyah!;)

[katya]

This brings up the question whether or not Tolkien was a fatalist. Seriously, I think Shelob had a better chance of winning if you just took and pitted them against each other. But it's not like Sam could just die. It wouldn't work. Having him fight and win against this foul creature adds excitement to the story. Also, I can't remeber...did Sam know that she had stung Frodo? He was pretty protective and loved him a lot, so I think knowing that he had to save Frodo would make him a more formidable enemy. And, the will to live and all that. Plus, Shelob was just a dumb spider, and we all know that spiders (except poinsonous ones) can't hurt you (Or at least that's what I have to tell myself when I see one near my bed).

Originally posted by Beren3000
I don't think Shelob would be considered an "endangered species" but rather an "endangering species" :D
:D very funny :D