troy

[gimli7410]

i havent seen it but i intend too, i was surprised not to see a thread on it. just wondering what people thought about it

[Falagar]

Going to see it tomorrow, will give you a review when I get back. Looks good, but I've seen one or two bad reviews...

[BeardofPants]

Blergh. Big piece of overrated hollywood crap. Not gonna be in any hurry to see it any time soon. :rolleyes:

Why yes, Falagar, you ARE alone. :p

[Falagar]

Thank you, I've been pondering that for a while. ;)

[Artanis]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Blergh. Big piece of overrated hollywood crap. Not gonna be in any hurry to see it any time soon. :rolleyes: Doesn't Brad Pitt in miniskirt with 11 kilos of extra muscles appeal to you at all? :D :p

I do intend to see it, but I'll try to keep my expectations low ....

[Millane]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Blergh. Big piece of overrated hollywood crap. Not gonna be in any hurry to see it any time soon. :rolleyes: ohhh BoP you forgot about how much it misrepresented history:rolleyes: :p
enjoyable enough but definately no Gladiator, the director crapped on about how much bigger this film is than Gladiator and about how his movie is going to have the most brutal battles ever commited to film:eek:...
I just loved the fight between Brendon Gleeson and Orlando Bloom, i guess from watching LotR too much i was just expecting Bloom to win a fight he so obviously couldnt, and so i was pleasantly surprised when Gleeson gave him a right old beating and Bloom had to crawl back to Eric Bana for help....
Eric Bana was the only real standout, i just loved him. His acting is always incredible, the director had originally seen him in Chopper and said he would be perfect but he was too fat:D he had too gain so much weight for that role and if the director had seen the start of that movie he wouldnt have made such a stupid comment:rolleyes:
anyway my favorite was obviously Hector and i hated Achilles, Hector was just a character that you could love while Achilles was an arrogant ****. We all know that in a real fight Bana would kick Brad Pitts arse:D

[Falagar]

Great movie! Some bad acting, some bad Holywood-style decisions but overall a well made film. :) And the fight between Hector and Achillevs...good stuff. ;)

The scene where Orlando crawled back was satisfying (and very good) but radically changed the whole story from the Iliad. And I think Pitt did a good job with Achillevs, just as arrogant as he should be. I don't think Bana did such a good job. Sure, he got it done, but he had a weird way of saying his lines that reminded me of some bad Holywood movie.

[afro-elf]

They had an advance shoping here in Tokyo on Saturday and I was so psyched to see it: however, I was severely let down.

Aside from the moments when Achilles was engaged in combat the film failed to deliver. It seemed like a straight to video release movie.

Cheesy lines.

With such a wealth of characters and history you would think that there could be some character development.

Helen and Paris. Hardly believable romance between the two.

As mentioned above, Achilles' fight sequences were a joy to watch. Brad was in great shape. But the fatal flaw for me was that he lacked the voice for the role.

His " Immortality is yours take it!" , failed because he has not the voice of a cinema warrior.

Though I like Greek tales over Roman, for a VERY VERY, VERY, silly reason Gladiator was a FAR superior movie.

I think the girls might like the nude near nude Brad Pitt scenes though.

I also thought it was interesting that Achilles and Hector were the ones inclined to a less than theistic view of the world.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Just saw it, and it was a let down.

The whole movie seemed to be a "Lets see Brad Pitt naked with his flaxen blonde hair fluttering in the breeze". I read the Illiad at school and his Achillies was not nearly what I expected. I just wasn't really sure what he was on about, and its hard to feel for a character who is basically a glory hound.

The best parts of the movie were or course the battles, but the ensemble cast was a definate highlight.

The great Peter O'Toole was Priam, the king of Troy, and they dont call him "the great" for nothing. He is great.

Eric Bana as Hector is easily the best of the rest, along with sean bean as Ulyesses, and the two brother Greek kings (cant think of their names).

Bloom aint much good either, and as soon as he picks up the Bow and starts firing arrows, you just see ELF! Damn funny.

Still, its a good enough movie for me to not feel cheated out of my 10 bucks.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
The great Peter O'Toole was Priam, the king of Troy, and they dont call him "the great" for nothing. He is great.

Eric Bana as Hector is easily the best of the rest...

Those are the ONLY two reasons I'm even considering going at all. Peter O'Toole is a god. And Eric Bana can act my pants off anytime. :p

[Arien the Maia]

I liked it, but aside from Peter O'Toole, the acting was kinda cheesy:(

[sun-star]

It could have been worse, but IMO it was a wasted opportunity to make a great film of a great story. I can't believe they managed to get such an awful script out of The Iliad. That takes real talent :rolleyes: And Brad Pitt cannot act. At all.

But apart from the main character being dreadful and almost every line making me wince, yeah, it was great :D

[Lalaith_Elf]

I haven't seen it yet (waiting until after my Greek Epic exam), but I've heard they've changed alot. Is it true that Odysseus is killed by Briseisin it? Because if he does I'll not be happy - what do they think the Odyssey is based on? If he dies then they've just ruled out one of the greated stories thats ever been told.:rolleyes:

[afro-elf]

No it is NOT. Who ever told you that got the names mixed up.

[Millane]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Those are the ONLY two reasons I'm even considering going at all. Peter O'Toole is a god. And Eric Bana can act my pants off anytime. :p have you seen Chopper? its his best movie (although i do love Hulk:p ) also great to see the Castle, Choppers better but easily one of Australias greatest movies...
And Brad Pitt cannot act. At all. Sun-star, although i wasnt that enthralled with his performance as Achilles, i really should direct you to Meet Joe Black, it is awesome stuff if you havent seen it, and Pitts acting was great:D

[Lalaith_Elf]

Originally posted by afro-elf
No it is NOT. Who ever told you that got the names mixed up.

Sorry, I meant Agamemnon. The person who told me got it wrong (they corrected them selves today).

But even so - it rules out the whole Agamemnon/Clytaemnestra myth.

[afro-elf]

Yes, the movie did change that.

[Jadera]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
Just saw it, and it was a let down.

The whole movie seemed to be a "Lets see Brad Pitt naked with his flaxen blonde hair fluttering in the breeze".

:D Yeah...and some of us shamelessly enjoyed that....
I saw it on Monday, and I thought it was very enjoyable. (Brad Pitt's rear aside.) I don't think I had any expectations for it, and it was good movie as far as movies go. I had heard that it was supposed to be more gory than Gladiator, and even the Patriot....not sure who had that opinion. It wasn't very gory at all, I didn't think.

Orlando Bloom....such a wimp in this...oi...my friend and I laughed when he crawled away from his fight. So bad...but whoever mentioned something about only seeing elf when he was shooting the arrows was absolutely right. :D And as for the romance between Paris and Helen....*snore* She's muy pretty, but they were hardly IN the movie after the beginning. I like the romance between Breseis and Achilles much better. You felt much more sympathetic for their characters.

I thought Eric Bana presented the best acting. He was fabulous as Hector. He delivered some of the best lines, too. Over all, definitely a movie worth seeing, even if it isn't a Oscar award winning classic.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Millane
Sun-star, although i wasnt that enthralled with his performance as Achilles, i really should direct you to Meet Joe Black, it is awesome stuff if you havent seen it, and Pitts acting was great:D

I have seen it, but it didn't make much of an impression on me - that's the one where he plays Death or something, right? I might have to watch it again.

I'd love to see a film of the Odyssey (hopefully with a better script) with Sean Bean as Odysseus. He was my favourite bit of the film apart from Peter O'Toole (who I liked for different reasons, I should point out :D).

[hectorberlioz]

I knew everyne would love me:)

well, I havent seen it yet, and I'm not sure I want to until it comes to dvd.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Nahh, you should see it. [Edited] aside, it's definatley worth the few bucks to walk in the door. make sure you have heaps of popcorn, though...,:)

[Elvengirl]

I thougth it was great. :) I'd like to see it again! I thought Brad Pitt was great as Achilles. (disregard all the nude scenes) Eric Bana was great and Sean Bean too. Great fight scenes and good points made as well. I felt for the characters and it was saddening to think that this occured in history. (and this is only one event) What a waste.

The love scenes were kind of boring and Orlando, ha it was great to see him as a wimp, hilarious. But I loved Legolas' debut ;)

[Millane]

Originally posted by sun-star
I have seen it, but it didn't make much of an impression on me - that's the one where he plays Death or something, right? I might have to watch it again. Yeah he plays death in it, and its not just him, the whole films great...

[BeardofPants]

No it isn't. It sucksass. Now, if you want to see GOOD Brad Pitt, then Fight Club or 12 Monkeys are the films to see.

[Millane]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
No it isn't. It sucksass. Now, if you want to see GOOD Brad Pitt, then Fight Club or 12 Monkeys are the films to see. no way, it rocks, YOU sucksass. the music is awesome aswell.... i dont know what to catagorize it as but its up there just below Secratary and Edward Scissorhands. Fight Club granted, but no Meet Joe Black is better than 12 monkeys.

[Artanis]

I saw Troy last night and I liked it. It had its weaknesses, but it was well worth the money. I enjoyed (if you can use the word 'enjoy' about a war like this) the battle scenes, and the fight between Hector and Achilles was very good. The acting wasn't that bad as I had expected after reading some of the reviews. Peter O'Toole was great as Priam and so was Bana as Hector. OK, Pitt could have been better as Achilles, but, he looked gorgeous. Yes he did! :) Sean Bean did a respectable job as Odysseus. So did the woman who played Andromake, whoever that was.

Bloom did a weak performance as Paris. It was almost like a parody. And Aeneas looked like a teenager. I also think they didn't have to let Agamemnon and Menelaos behaving so lowly all the time.

[Falagar]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
No it isn't. It sucksass. Now, if you want to see GOOD Brad Pitt, then Fight Club or 12 Monkeys are the films to see.
Hey, it's worth the few bucks. ;)

Oh, and Attention everyone! Troy in 15 minutes! (http://www.livejournal.com/users/cleolinda/99710.html) Lots of SPOILERS (though there shouldn't be any need to say that. :p)

Small SPOILER:

Paris is practicing archery on a nice straw man nailed up to the wall. He hits bull's-eye after bull's-eye.

HELEN: Wow, I had no idea you were so good at this.

PARIS: Neither did I. Weird, isn’t it? And I really want lembas now.

HELEN: What?

:D

[afro-elf]

Troy in Fifteen minutes was great.

[gimli7410]

saw it last night and orlando bloom will be labeled an elf his whole life, i could see him movies without having anything to do with bow and arrows but im sure they will work some sort of elf thing into every movie he does:p eric bana is a crazy actor, just that before troy he played a geeky nerd guy and now he plays one of the best warriors in the world, sean bean was good too. whenever i saw the actor playing agamenmon (sorry i dont know his name) i just kept seeing stryker from x-men2. overall it was good,i cant say if it stuck to the illiad seeing as i have never read it, but all the effects were good, overall it was pretty good

[hectorberlioz]

Yeah, I guessTroy (http://www.anaclase.com/dvds/articles/troyens.jpg) would be nice to see:).

[Mercutio]

It was pretty good, but nothing exceptional. And for me there were a few "close your eyes" parts. Many battle scenes were reminescent of LoTR. Hector was amazing. Brad Pitt as Achilles seemed to be in it just for his looks and fame; but there wasn't much he could do with the blunt script (at some points). Hmm...., they kind of "demythologized" it, took out so much that was credited to the gods. There was a lot of violence, but it wasn't very bloody (only a few bits of gore here and there). And most of it came straight from the Illiad (by Homer) and the Aenid (by Virgil). I didn't realize so much of the smaller happenings/parts actually "took place" (from Homer and Virgil's poems/stories). I really liked just the massiveness of some of the scenes. And I hated Achilles with a passion! Who care's if he's Brad Pitt! Homer portrayed him a lot nicer than the movie.

I'd give it 3 out of 4 stars.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
Yeah, I guess Troy (http://www.anaclase.com/dvds/articles/troyens.jpg) would be nice to see:).

very funny. i'm falling of the chair with laughter :sacrastic laugh:

jk :D

[afro-elf]

Homer portrayed him a lot nicer than the movie.

Really? What specifically in Homer's works lends this idea to you?

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by afro-elf
Really? What specifically in Homer's works lends this idea to you?

Since I haven't actually read it...I looked up what it said about Achilles in a guide to the Classics and Oxford History of the Classical World. And also a review of the movie online.

[afro-elf]

Mercutio, you might what to see if you can find a non censured article of the Iliad.

Achilles does refuse to fight and IIRC Protrolus is his lover not cousin, he ( Achilles) tell a Trojan warrior to "sumbit to his caress or die" and I also believe he has his way with Penthesilia AFTER he has killed her.

This just to give a more Homeric view of the character as opposed to movie view.

I will try to verify the above info.

[afro-elf]

One quick thing I found:

The story of the invulnerability of Achilles is not found in Homer, and is inconsistent with his account. For how could Achilles require the aid of celestial armour if he were invulnerable?
[see sources: Library of Apollodorus 3.13.6 and Notes]

[Garbo]

Saw the making of last night. Looks great.

[Maedhros]

The guys at Hollywood used the Illiad and Euripide's Trojan Woman as toilet paper in their script. It was a bad omen in trying to make that movie without the gods. They took the soul out of it.
Agamemnon was portrayed more diabolically than I thought possible. Achilles was the ultimate prima donna.
The plot was really bad, the acting worse, the script was missing. The fights were cool tho.

Achilles does refuse to fight and IIRC Protrolus is his lover not cousin,
Where did you get that? That is not in the Illiad as far as I know, not in any tragedy that I have read about.

[IronParrot]

I didn't go into the movie expecting the Iliad for the same reason you don't walk into just any biographical picture about Julius Caesar and complain that the lines aren't from Shakespeare. I enjoyed the movie a lot more because of it. It's flawed, and it's no masterpiece, but only very rarely did it outright suck.

I posted a long (i.e. about 1500 words) review here (http://www.ualberta.ca/~ntam/2004_05_01_archive.html#108498892021369081) if anyone's interested. Excerpt:

Troy ends with an almost joking dedication, "Inspired by Homer's Iliad," when adaptation-wise it more precisely sits somewhere in between O Brother, Where Art Thou? being inspired by the Odyssey and, to draw an obligatory Peter O'Toole connection for a moment, Lawrence of Arabia's roots in Seven Pillars of Wisdom. Never mind the Homeric credit; this is a film best watched for what it is, which is not at all an arm of mythology, but rather a dramatized historical portrait of mythmaking.

...

This is not to say that Troy is not without its distractions, and there are many. Many of them involve pacing, particularly of the first and last act. The opening is riddled with an excess of title cards that cheat their way around exposition, and the initiation of the conflict proved to be a pickle when avoiding any mucking about with that god brouhaha. At the end, after the point at which the Iliad has had its fill, the movie suddenly realizes that it has some unfinished business, and rushes to completion. It's as if someone in the editing department realized that once Hector is out of the picture, the glue holding the movie together starts to dissipate, so why not wrap everything up in a hurry?

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by Maedhros



Where did you get that? That is not in the Illiad as far as I know, not in any tragedy that I have read about.

Actually, I thought it was quite common knowledge. I don't have the Illiad available but just do a google search with :achilles lover patroclus and you can find all the info you want.

When Agamemnnon takes Breisis( sp) Achilles refuses to fight.

I personally did like that fact that the Gods where not involved. Didn't desire to watch XENA. I think that it would have supremely campy with them as to simply opposed to as you say:The plot was really bad, the acting worse, the script was missing. The fights were cool tho.

However, I do not wish to engage in a Gods vs no Gods discussion. We just have different thoughts on it.

[Mercutio]

I'd say if they were trying to turn Troy into a history they did a pretty decent job. It couldn't be a story of mythology/legend (another approach they could've taken) without the gods playing a greater part.

[afro-elf]

Maedros,

I found quickly is that in Book XXIV of the Illiad it states something like Achilles missed the " manfulness of Patroclus"


But, here is a link you might check out

http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/randomstuff/gay.html


AND ALSO THIS

Consider this quotation from Plato's dialogue, The Symposium:

The honor [the gods] gave to Achilles is another matter. They sent him to the Isles of the Blessed because he dared to stand by his lover Patroclus and avenge him, even after he had learned that he would die if he killed Hector,...


eventhough I am quite sure that you are aware of the situation in ancient Greece I post it for those who may not

...Phaedrus, the speaker of these words, thinks that Patroclus was the lover and Achilles the beloved; he criticizes Aeschylus for reversing these roles. (Among well-to-do Greeks it was common for older men to fall in love with, and seek sexual gratification from, adolescent boys. In these relationships -- which existed side by side with conventional marriage -- the older man (the erastês, "lover") played a sort of mentor role for the younger man (the erômenos, "beloved"). The younger man was supposed to be beautiful, not too forward, won over with great difficulty; and he got from the relationship the benefit of the older man's wisdom and experience. Once the youth reached a certain age, he was no longer suitable as a beloved, and became a friend.) Is Phaedrus's reading of the Achilles/Patroclus relationship plausible? Does it make sense of the text? What light does it shed on Achilles' actions after he learns of Patroclus's death?...


FINALLY HERE IS THE GOOGLE SEARCH LINK


http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=achilles+lover+Patroclus

[Maedhros]

I personally did like that fact that the Gods where not involved. Didn't desire to watch XENA. I think that it would have supremely campy with them as to simply opposed to as you say:
It would have required a great deal of thinking to have inserted the Gods in there. Actually, because Thetis was there, it had one god in there.

Thanks for the links, that was my impression about that they could be gay lovers. But in fairness to Achilles, I would have to say that when Agamemnon takes Briseis away, Achilles does in fact thinks of attacking him.
From Book I: Illiad
And Agamemnon answered, "Fly if you will, I shall make you no
prayers to stay you. I have others here who will do me honour,
and above all Jove, the lord of counsel. There is no king here so
hateful to me as you are, for you are ever quarrelsome and ill-
affected. What though you be brave? Was it not heaven that made
you so? Go home, then, with your ships and comrades to lord it
over the Myrmidons. I care neither for you nor for your anger;
and thus will I do: since Phoebus Apollo is taking Chryseis from
me, I shall send her with my ship and my followers, but I shall
come to your tent and take your own prize Briseis, that you may
learn how much stronger I am than you are, and that another may
fear to set himself up as equal or comparable with me."

The son of Peleus was furious, and his heart within his shaggy
breast was divided whether to draw his sword, push the others
aside, and kill the son of Atreus, or to restrain himself and
check his anger. While he was thus in two minds, and was drawing
his mighty sword from its scabbard, Minerva came down from heaven
(for Juno had sent her in the love she bore to them both), and
seized the son of Peleus by his yellow hair, visible to him
alone, for of the others no man could see her. Achilles turned in
amaze, and by the fire that flashed from her eyes at once knew
that she was Minerva. "Why are you here," said he, "daughter of
aegis-bearing Jove? To see the pride of Agamemnon, son of Atreus?
Let me tell you--and it shall surely be--he shall pay for this
insolence with his life."

And Minerva said, "I come from heaven, if you will hear me, to
bid you stay your anger. Juno has sent me, who cares for both of
you alike. Cease, then, this brawling, and do not draw your
sword; rail at him if you will, and your railing will not be
vain, for I tell you--and it shall surely be--that you shall
hereafter receive gifts three times as splendid by reason of this
present insult. Hold, therefore, and obey."


The part that you quote in the last part of your post reminds me of the ancient tradition of Sparta, when older men warriors took younger men as their disciples and it is believed that they became even more attached to them that to their own wives, and also at that time, there was no Chirstianity and homosexuality was not the thing that it is today.

[Sono]

Great movie! The fight between Hector and Achillevs...good stuff. :)

I think Brad Pitt did a good job with Achillevs, just as arrogant as he should be. I think Eric Bana did a good job with Hector, too.
Of course, I only see the german version. ^^

I like Orlando Bloom, but this role was not so good. I think he ist more the Legolas :rolleyes: :D
*smile*

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Sono

I think Brad Pitt did a good job with Achillevs, just as arrogant as he should be. I think Eric Bana did a good job with Hector, too.

Well, there's no way that they're going to present me accurately 100%...but, quite nice to hear they tried:)


:p

[Garbo]

Thought this was pretty funny

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-05-24

[afro-elf]

Agreed:)

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i loved troy absolutely!!
peter o'toole's acting was fabulous, as ever,
sean bean, nice eye-candy ;)
brad pitt <Drools> orlando not bad

was this film made just with stunners taking roles? :D:D

[Manveru]

this movie was soo good. definately one of my favourite movies. i havent read the illyiad (sp?) yet so i cant compare it but except for a few little things it was awesome

[Elanor]

I just saw this on TV -- I wouldn't see the unedited version. :rolleyes:

I thought it was quite good in most parts. I thought it was interesting to see a "version" of the Illiad without involving the gods as characters. It was also an interesting idea that Achilles' main motivation in fighting the war seemed to be to have his name immortalized. It's been a while since I read the Illiad, but I don't remember Briseis being such a big character, and I remember Odysseus being a lot bigger. Didn't he actually sneak into Troy at one point? Odysseus was always my favorite, so I was glad he was played by Sean Bean even if he didn't have a bigger part, and Athena (my second favorite character) was completely cut. I also missed Cassandra and the other brothers of Hector. Too bad there's no way they could do a "version" of the Odyssey with Sean Bean following this movie, since it would have to seriously involve the supernatural! I would really like to see a modern version of the Odyssey with all the crazy monsters and details of ancient Greece (not that I didn't like "O Brother, where art thou?" :D).

I really liked Hector, but he was really the best part of it for me. I just like the nice guys who settle down and take care of their families. :) Achilles was pretty impressive, but not exactly likeable -- but he wasn't really likeable in the Illiad either. Agamemnon and Menelaus were seriously vilified. Paris was ok, I thought, and Priam was very good. All in all, I would watch it again.

[JTB]

I loved this movie! Especially when Petroclas (sp.) gets killed by Hector.
I loved watching Troy burn! MWAHAHAHA! Peter O'Toole's acting was my favorite part. Just watching him get slaughtered by Aggamenmon (sp.) makes me want to laugh and cry. My 50th post! I'm no longer a dreaded Hobbit!