Foes of Arnor

[Meneldil]

Previously, I posted this on another message board, but got no real response, and I'm hoping I may get some answers and good discussion here.

`And yet less thanks have we than you. Travellers scowl at us, and countrymen give us scornful names. "Strider" I am to one fat man who lives within a day's march of foes that would freeze his heart or lay his little town in ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly. Yet we would not have it otherwise. If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so. That has been the task of my kindred, while the years have lengthened and the grass has grown.
What are these foes? Are they the barrow wights, and if so how do the Dúnedain stop them? The most feasible explanation I can come up with is trolls but I'm not too sure about that.

[brownjenkins]

i'd have to guess he was speaking of the trolls, the occasional wandering pack of wargs and 'bad men' in general... maybe a touch of exaggeration on aragorn's part

i highly doubt the barrow wights do much wandering... or that orcs would come that far from the mountains

[Valandil]

Hard to say, because Tolkien only gives us this much - and any more is conjecture and speculation. But those are fun, so let's give it a whirl!: :D

Could well be the Barrow Wights. As far as what the Dunedain could do... maybe they had a few more of those 'Swords of Westernesse' around... family heirlooms, weapons in the keeping of the chieftain, whatever. I DO wonder how mobile those wights were (we don't know much about them, do we?) - but they managed to come in and occupy those old tombs late in the second millenium of the Third Age anyhow.

As well, it could be trolls, orcs, wolves, etc. Maybe outlaws, brigands, ruffians. Maybe there were some loathesome creatures in the direction of 'Deadman's Dike'? Maybe other types of creatures as well. Tolkien makes mention of vampires and werewolves in his First Age histories, but not in Third Age... but I wonder if any of those were still around.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Another possibility is roving bands of outlaws (perhaps like Turin's lot but without his control over them). Such bands could have been slowly increasing, as Barliman noted near the end of LOTR:
"...the inside folks, they stay at home mostly and keep their doors barred. It all comes of those newcomers and gangrels that began coming up the Greenway last year, as you may remember;
but more came later. Some were just poor bodies running away from trouble; but most were bad men, full o' thievery and mischief.
And there was trouble right here in Bree, bad trouble. Why, we had a real set-to, and there were some folk killed, killed dead! If you'll believe me......And now they've gone for robbers and living outside, hiding in the woods beyond Archet, and out in the wilds north-away.....You see, we're not used to such troubles; and the Rangers have all gone away, folk tell me. I don't think we've rightly understood till now what they did for us. Wolves were howling around the fences last winter. And there's dark shapes in the woods, dreadful things that makes the blood run cold to think of."

[Snowdog]

Looking at the history of the Dúnedain of the north, there were trolls and wargs from the Ettenmoors, and also hillmen who battled Arthedain in the days of old. Also to the south were the Dunlandings, and there were the possibility of outlaws that harried the roads but for the diligence of the Rangers. Of course we see what happened when the Rangers were at war... Agents of Sarumann moved in unwatched....
And yes much is speculation, for surely Tolkien himself would want us to fill in the blanks with our own imaginations. :)

[GrayMouser]

Not to sound too Clintonian, but I think it depends on the meaning of 'or'.

If Aragorn means that there exist foes who could both freeze Barliman's and lay Bree to ruins, it would be restricted to orcs, Wargs and (maybe) trolls.

If it means there exist one type of foe who could freeze Barliman's heart, and another type who could lay waste to Bree, you could include Barrow-wights (heart-freezers) and outlaws (ruin-layers).

I don't think wights lay waste to towns, and I don't think Barliman's heart would be frozen by outlaws.

(I know these uses of 'or' have names, but it's been a long time since I took Logic 101)

[Valandil]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Not to sound too Clintonian, but I think it depends on the meaning of 'or'.

If Aragorn means that there exist foes who could both freeze Barliman's and lay Bree to ruins, it would be restricted to orcs, Wargs and (maybe) trolls.

If it means there exist one type of foe who could freeze Barliman's heart, and another type who could lay waste to Bree, you could include Barrow-wights (heart-freezers) and outlaws (ruin-layers).

I don't think wights lay waste to towns, and I don't think Barliman's heart would be frozen by outlaws.

(I know these uses of 'or' have names, but it's been a long time since I took Logic 101)

Yes GM, I agree that Aragorn is talking about two (or more) different kinds of foes.

Interesting to compare what Aragorn says here with the words of Butterbur near the end of the book (EDIT: in chapter 'Homeward Bound') - when he says that they now understood what the rangers had been doing for them.

[Snowdog]

I think Aragorn was speaking in general terms in reference to Barlimans and probably most people of Brees ignorance of the outside world.

As for Wights, They stay with the tombs or close proximity, or else they would be taking any one travelling the road, the Shire, Bree, etc.