Saddest Moment In Tolkien

[Aldhelm]

What do you lot think is the saddest moment in Tolkien's Work?
I would say that either the death of Theoden or the descent into evil of Gollum would be the saddest in my opinion.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

A version of your second suggestion:

Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly put out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo's knee- but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of his youth, an old starved pitiable thing.
But at that touch Frodo stirred and cried out softly in his sleep,
and immediately Sam was wide awake. The first thing he saw was
Gollum- 'pawing at master,' as he thought.
"Hey you!" he said roughly. "What are you up to?"
"Nothing, nothing," said Gollum softly. "Nice Master!"
"I daresay," said Sam. "But where have you been to- sneaking
off and sneaking back, you old villain?"
Gollum withdrew himself, and a green glint flickered under his heavy lids.....The fleeting moment had passed beyond recall.

[Lizra]

When Treebeard sees that many of his forest trees near Isengard have been cut down and burned. :(

[Forkbeard]

The saddest moment for me is when Sam comes home and says "I'm back"

[Lizra]

cause it's over?

[Forkbeard]

yeah

[Lizra]

You poor baby! ;)

Oh yes...when the party tree gets cut down. Those tree bits really get me!

[BeardofPants]

For me it is definitely when Frodo is finally back home in Bag End, and he realises that he can never go back to his life before the ring came to him. Oh, and the fact that Gollum never gets redeemed. :(

[Mrs Maggot]

I know this is predictable… but the saddest moment for me is Gandalf's 'death' Every time I read it or watch it I cry, evne though I know full well he's not *really* dead…

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Oh, and the fact that Gollum never gets redeemed. :( I always saw Gollum getting the Ring - his goal, and then accidentally destroying it as redemption.

That is a really sad part Mrs. Maggot, it's very moving. The sad part is you know the Fellowship thinks he's dead, and he was such a good friend to all of them in different ways, especially Frodo, Aragorn, and Legolas.

[Beor]

The saddest moment in all of JRR Tolkien's work that I have read for me is in the Fall of Gondolin, when Echtilion (Sp?) takes Gothmog down in the fountain. I freakin cried, for Christ's sake. The whole Fall is so well written and sad, I guess its just the whole mood of the thing. Glorfindel taking the plunge with the Balrog is a sad one too, though. That damn Morgoth!

If you mean in Lord of the Rings alone, I would have to go with the death of Theoden. I like that guy, its too bad he died.

On the lighter side, though, the funniest part is when Helm Hammerhand smites that fat dude outside of Edoras for allowing his pride to grow with his belly...heh heh..

[Fat middle]

Originally posted by Mrs Maggot
I know this is predictable… but the saddest moment for me is Gandalf's 'death' Every time I read it or watch it I cry, evne though I know full well he's not *really* dead…
I agree that's the saddest momment in LOTR. Specially after they get out Moria.

But in all Tolkien works the first scene that comes to my mind as the saddest is:But Húrin did not look at the stone, for he knew what was written there; and his eyes had seen that he was not alone. Sitting in the shadow of the stone there was a woman, bent over her knees; and as Húrin stood there silent she cast back her tattered hood and lifted her face. Grey she was and old, but suddenly her eyes looked into his, and he knew her; for though they were wild and full of fear, that light still gleamed in them that long ago had earned for her the name Eledhwen, proudest and most beautiful of mortal women in the days of old.
'You come at last,' she said. 'I have waited too long.'
'It was a dark road. I have come as I could,' he answered.
'But you are too late,' said Morwen. 'They are lost.'
'I know it,' he said. 'But you are not.'
But Morwen said: 'Almost. I am spent I shall go with the sun. Now little time is left: if you know, tell me! How did she find him?'
But Húrin did not answer, and they sat beside the stone, and did not speak again; and when the sun went down Morwen sighed and clasped his hand, and was still; and Húrin knew that she had died. :( :)

[Artanis]

This is a hard one. I'd say Beren's death. Or when Maglor and Maedhros have finally regained the Silmarils, only to discover how vain it was. Or when Túrin killed Beleg. Or the Aegnor/Andreth love story. Or ...
There are just too many to choose from.

In LotR I think it must be the death of Boromir.

[Lalaith_Elf]

In LOTR's it would have to be when it ended. The very last sentence had me in floods. I just didn't want it to end.

Of course there is also the death of Smaug in The Hobbit - I loved that dragon!

[Sister Golden Hair]

In the Silmarillion there were many sad parts, mostly surrounding death. The death of Beleg was one of the saddest. Also the death of Morwen. How she died sitting by Hurin and telling him that she would go with the sun.:( The death of Finrod was also sad in that you watched this powerful, kind Elven King become stripped of everything, his crown, his dignity, his clothes, and even his life at the end, and then to die in the great tower that he himself had built.:( The death of Fingon was also very sad for me, in that he died in such a horrible way. The list goes on.

Yes Artanis, the Athrabeth, also one of the most beautiful, yet saddest works of Tolkien.

[Radagast The Brown]

I think the death of Finrod was the saddest moment. :( Every time you read it, you feel it again. :(

[Aldhelm]

I never thought about the Simarillion. I found the deaths (there are so many arghh) of Fingolfin and Finrod to be very depressing.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Aldhelm
I never thought about the Simarillion. I found the deaths (there are so many arghh) of Fingolfin and Finrod to be very depressing. Although it was sad that such a great king as Fingolfin died and it was a vain effort on his part, he died in a great challenge and for a great cause, so it wasn't all in vain, because he wounded Morgoth seven times.

[Beor]

I never really thought the death of Fingolfin was too sad. I always figured that would be a good way to go, fighting against the greatest enemy in Arda, and wounding him many times before you are crushed by his hammer. I would have mourned his passing, but not his death, it was a heroic death fitting a High King of the Eldar. I would think that seeing your king, a mere elf of Middle-earth, battle the greatest Vala ever would be a hell of a thing, even if he did die, which I would expect anyway. He got some hits in, and Morgoth never forgot the pain of them.

[Valandil]

The more I think about it, 5 of the top 10 probably come from the story of Turin Turrambar. :(

[BeardofPants]

Yes Val, and I *would* chose it to be my favourite story, wouldn't I? :rolleyes:

[Valandil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Yes Val, and I *would* chose it to be my favourite story, wouldn't I? :rolleyes:

'Character building'! :) The sadness DOES strengthen the story... puts it on the order of a Greek or Shakespearean tragedy. The whole effort of the Noldor to regain the Silmarils and their flight to Middle-earth is similarly tragic... there's just so MUCH of it coming to a head in that story.

Maybe we all just want to see Turin get a break for once! :(

[Falagar]

The Nirnaeth perhaps...most of the chapters involving Túrin are sad. And then there's the Fall of Gondolin in BoLT.
There all that company turned, and lo! The plain is clear and smiling in the last light as of old; but afar off as they gazed a great flare shot up against the darkened north - and that was the fall of the last tower of Gondolin, even that which had stood hard by the southern gate, and whose shadow fell oft across the walls of Tuor's house. Then sank the sun, and they saw Gondolin no more.

Oh, and there's the story of Aldarion...too much sadness. :( ;)

[cassiopeia]

The saddest part of the LOTR is when Frodo sails across the sea. That paragraph is the most beautiful and moving in the LOTR.

The saddest part of the Silmarillion is when Turin falls onto his sword. :( Oh, and when Feanor dies. ;)

[Lady Ravyn]

definetly when gandalf dies...or doesn't die...whatever... but i was also mad then cuz he was one of my favs.
oh, and when thorin dies at the end of the hobbit; i didn't realize how much i liked him until he croaked. :(
and when sam says "i'm back" i must have gone through a whole box of tissues then

[brownjenkins]

i agree on the Turin parts...

the fate of feanor always saddened me too... losing his mother and father in a place where the elves must have thought death was next to impossible, then ultimately defeated through his own grief and passions

[ryttu3k]

The death of Theoden, easily, and Eomer's grief at the loss of such a great man... trying so hard to be strong, but crying nonetheless... Theoden IS one of my favourite characters for a reason...

Although Sam's line - "Don't go where I can't follow!" - had me bawling...

[Beruthiel's cat]

The first time I read LOTR (about 30 years ago!!) I found the fall of Boromir to be very sad. I still do. I liked Boromir because he was more of a flawed person than others in the Fellowship, but he was also noble and kind. His corruption and redemption are sad and poignant moments and I always remember how I felt the first time I read it each time I've re-read it.

[Sween]

Saddest moment is the Battle of Un-numbred tears the final defeat of the eldar as we knew them the loss of so much life of the Eldar and the Edain yet even from that battle there is hope at the end as with all the loss in tolkiens works

[azalea]

In Tolkien, there are many sad situations that don't really count as one particular instance to me, such as the whole situation with Feanor (although the Kin-slaying was very sad:( ), or the one that BoP brought up -- Frodo unable to "go home" again. But in reference to specific scenes, these are it for me: Thorin's death (very powerful and sad scene to an 8 year old, and still is for me today!), the Grey Havens scene with Gandalf, Elrond, Bilbo and Frodo leaving ME, and from The Silm (for me) the deaths of Finrod and HUAN, the poor critter!:(

[Gwaimir Windgem]

The saddest moment in Tolkien is, for me, the tale of Turin and Nienor. :( That is a beatifully tragic story.

[Maedhros]

I have to agree with Fat Middle in that Húrin's return to Morwen was definitely the saddest moment in the legendarium and yet it is filled with hope. How could Morwen, after all that happened to her, retain the hope that someday her husband would return?

The slaying of Gothmog by Echtelion is sad too, but I would not put it in the same level. I would say that it was sadder to see Eärendil's reaction to his death.
From the Book of Lost Tales II: The Fall of Gondolin
“Mother Idril, I would we had good Ecthelion of the Fountain here to play to me on his flute, or make me willow-whistles! Perchance he has gone on ahead?� But Idril said nay, and told what she had heard of his end. Then said Eärendel that he cared not ever to see the streets of Gondolin again, and he wept bitterly; but Tuor said that he would not again see those streets, “for Gondolin is no more�.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Although it was sad that such a great king as Fingolfin died and it was a vain effort on his part, he died in a great challenge and for a great cause, so it wasn't all in vain, because he wounded Morgoth seven times.
I would have to agree with this as the second most saddest moment. The first, and all time saddest moment is when Finrod dies. :(

[Finrod Felagund]

When Nienor realizes who Turin is and throws herself over the cliff.

The death of Finrod...of course...

And that last scene with Morwen and Hurin...

Also when Hurin goes to find Gondolin and gets no answer...

[Willow Oran]

For saddest moments I would say the end places of the three main books, the death of Boromir, the supposed death of Frodo and the sailing of the ringbearers for LotR.
But out of all of Tolkien's works I would say the saddest moments are the fall of Gondolin, especially just after Glorfindel's death, and Beren's farewell song, before Luthien catches up when he's preparing to go on towards Angband alone. There are too many sad moments to choose from, I can think of about half a dozen more that I should include here but that would take too long so I'll stick with these five.

[MasterMothra]

The tale of Turin had to be the saddest part of Tolkiens work for me. There is no greater tragedy in his literature that I have read.

The flight of the Noldor comes in a close second. The unconditional loyalty that Fingolfin shows toward his brother was truely moving.

[Glorfindel_of_Gondolin]

Gotta be the fall of Gondolin.

The last bastion of the Eldar, in which the glory of Aman is preserved, being sold by Maeglin to the Morgoth himself, just goes to show one of Tolkien's principle ideas.

Power corrupts.

[Anglorfin]

The saddest part of the Turin story is when he comes upon Finduilas' mound. That really started his whole tragedy.

Also the battle at the Gates of Moria (Battle of Unnumbered Tears) was pretty sad. There was very little real hope for the Dwarves after that I thought.

[Finrod Felagund]

Sad? Well, when Hurin arrives after 28 years apart, just in time to hold Morwen's hand as she dies, and bury her next to their son and daughter! :(

[Forkbeard]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Sad? Well, when Hurin arrives after 28 years apart, just in time to hold Morwen's hand as she dies, and bury her next to their son and daughter! :(

That's my #1 too, and my 1.5 is Arwen's death, that always brings a tear to my eye, not quite as big a tear as when I read about Hurin, but a tear nonetheless.

Forkbeard

[Valandil]

Saddest moments... The Witch King's sack of Fornost and destruction of Arthedain, I'd say - as well as Arvedui's ship-wreck in the Ice Bay of Forochel... and maybe the division of Arnor into Arthedain, Cardolan and Rhudaur in the first place! :(

;)

[Captain Stern]

I always found the death of Mim's son at the hands of Turin's goons to be very sad (and bitter). Poor little Mim went through quite a lot when you think about it.

[elvenbabe11]

:( It is tied between when Frodo leaves for the gray havens and sam comes home and say well i am home. or when frodo tell sam to go home. those where the sadest part of the rotk

[Vicky]

The saddest moment in ROTK is when Frodo tells Sam to go home. I really felt so angry on Frodo and sad for Sam, he did everything he could, but at that moment it wasn't enough....

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Vicky
The saddest moment in ROTK is when Frodo tells Sam to go home. I really felt so angry on Frodo and sad for Sam, he did everything he could, but at that moment it wasn't enough....

Hi Vicky and welcome to Entmoot!

Don't know if you're joking or if you have only seen that in the movies... because it isn't in the books! ;) So... that would make it, 'One of the saddest moments in Jackson' instead of Tokien. :p

Now scoot on over to the welcome center... that's the 'Official Welcome Thread' in the General Messages forum - and introduce yourself. :)

[Vicky]

sorry, I got a bit confused. It's been a while since I least read the books.
:(

[Arien the Maia]

I think that the saddest moments are:

When Melkor destroyed the Trees
When Sam comes back from the Gray Havens.
When Feanor burned the ships.
When Beren dies.

[ranger]

probably the end... because its over.... that really sucks.... no more waighting for it to come out of the movie theaters ( or no more late night reading) NO MORE!!!!!!! i cant decide weather im mad or sad its over....... i think both


( I will fight for what i believe.....Literally)i am a ranger.... no really i am...... really..... ( you dis my family, friends hobbies.......YOU ARE GOIN DOWN!!!!) aragorn (viggo) rocks!!!!!

[Vicky]

Originally posted by ranger
probably the end... because its over.... that really sucks.... no more waighting for it to come out of the movie theaters ( or no more late night reading) NO MORE!!!!!!! i cant decide weather im mad or sad its over....... i think both

You could read the books again :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by ranger
probably the end... because its over.... that really sucks.... no more waighting for it to come out of the movie theaters ( or no more late night reading) NO MORE!!!!!!! i cant decide weather im mad or sad its over....... i think both It's never over! After LotRs, there is the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and 12 volumes of the Histories of Middle-earth series. That is enough to last a lifetime.:)

[ranger]

yes i am reading the sieries over again ( and again, and again...etc) the books wont last a lifetime the way im reading them

this is how many times ive read the books
hobbit:10
FOTR: 10
TTT:10
ROTK:10
and im on the second book of lost tales:D
( talk about obsessed:D )

i am a ranger.... i will fight for right and what i believe( you insult my family, friends hobbies.......i will fight even if i will not survive) aragorn (viggo) rocks!!!!![/

[cassiopeia]

When Haldir died.






Ack, I couldn't resist. :-)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
When Haldir died.






Ack, I couldn't resist. :-) Craig Parker doesn't count.:p :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by ranger
yes i am reading the sieries over again ( and again, and again...etc) the books wont last a lifetime the way im reading them

this is how many times ive read the books
hobbit:10
FOTR: 10
TTT:10
ROTK:10
and im on the second book of lost tales:D
( talk about obsessed:D ) What happened to the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales? Besides, Lost Tales is only two books in the HoMe series. What about the other 10 volumes?:) From viewing your profile, you haven't been alive long enough to read all that.:D

[ranger]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
What happened to the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales? Besides, Lost Tales is only two books in the HoMe series. What about the other 10 volumes?:) From viewing your profile, you haven't been alive long enough to read all that.:D


oops forgot to mention those.... anyway yes i have read ALL of those... ( in case you didnt notice i like books:D )

[ranger]

just cause im young doesnt mean you have to make fun of me........ *thinking* KILLLLLL!!!! ......... i read through the whole LOTR sieries in 4 days..... i think im old enouph to have read all those, dont you think?:D

[ranger]

i read most of the books awile ago so im reading them again:D

[Beren3000]

I think the saddest moments in LOTR are:

-the death of Boromir
-the death of Theoden
-the death of Denethor
-Frodo's sailing at the Grey Havens
-Frodo's song about Gandalf in Lothlorien

[Minielin]

~ The death of Beleg
~ To a lesser degree, the burning of the swan boats (it's the destruction of magnificent craft, as well as having poor Maedhros just standing there watching the betrayal of his relatives and friends).

[old scholar]

i feel one of the saddest moments for me is seeing frodo succumb to the temptation of the ring and the death of thorin oakenshield

[kiddstodd]

when Frodo leaves Sam Merry and Pipin to go to Valinor

[Elanor the Fair]

I have read most of Tolkien's books, and there are many tales that are tragic, however, for me the saddest part is in The Fellowship of the Ring, when Gandalf falls with the Balrog.

It is not just the event that is sad, many other tales are more tragic, it is Tolkien's building of the characters and their relationships and dependence on each other that makes this so sad. You know the characters so well, it is like you experienced the trauma yourself. This is directly related to the storytelling skills of the author.

[Ragnarok]

1) The death of Boromir (hes the only one from the fellowship that died)
2) The death of Huan
3) the destruction of Gondolin

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

when Frodo leaves Sam Merry and Pipin to go to Valinor

I agree. That was the part that bought tears to my eyes.

[Attalus]

The more I think about it, 5 of the top 10 probably come from the story of Turin Turrambar. :(I quite agree. The death of Theoden to me was the saddest thin in LotR.

[Pytt]

first time i reaf LoTR I cried when Shelob almost killed Frodo. i thought he was dead. i also find it very sad when Frodo leaves the three hobbits in grey havens

[Elemmírë]

I'd say the death of Finrod, for all the reasons SGH mentioned earlier:

The death of Finrod was also sad in that you watched this powerful, kind Elven King become stripped of everything, his crown, his dignity, his clothes, and even his life at the end, and then to die in the great tower that he himself had built.

I still haven't gotten over it. :(

The second saddest would have to be a tie between practically everything else that ever happened in the Silmarillion.

the whole thing is so depressing... :(

[Manveru]

for me:
saddest parts in LOTR:
-when sam thinks frodo is dead
-when sam says "I'm back"
-death of theoden

saddest parts of Silm (i havent read it in awhile):
-end of 'Turin Turambar'
-when the Trees are destroyed
-when the silmarils are regained, but in vain

saddest parts of LOTR movies:
-when they leave moria and think gandalf's dead
-death of boromir
-the end

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

saddest parts of LOTR movies:
-when they leave moria and think gandalf's dead
-death of boromir
-the end
Some might argue -the beginnining! :eek:

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

the saddest moment in tolkien is the Oath of Feanor, and the deeds which it caused, the kinslaying at Alqualonde especially

[Attalus]

The saddest part of the Silmarillion is when Turin falls onto his sword. :( Oh, and when Feanor dies. ;)
I was rather relieved when Turin finally died and took his cursed self away. And when Fëanor died I was glad. To me the saddest thing in all of Tolkien is the death of Huan.

[Elemmírë]

the saddest moment in tolkien is the Oath of Feanor, and the deeds which it caused, the kinslaying at Alqualonde especially

It might not be obviously sad, but if you want to look at things that way (retrospectively, I guess), how about when the Valar decide to bring the Eldar to Valinor, and Mandos says, "So it is doomed"......

I was rather relieved when Turin finally died and took his cursed self away. And when Fëanor died I was glad.

ditto. ;) :D

[Beren3000]

To me, one of the saddest moments in the Sil. was the last stand of Huor: the part where Huor tells Turgon: "This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death..."

[ethuiliel]

The first time I read it, I think the saddest moment was:
Last of all he came. His men passed in. The mounted knights returned and at their rear the banner of Dol Amoroth, and the Prince. And in his arms before him on his horse he bore the body of his kinsman, Faramir son of Denethor, found upon the stricken field. That was also when I realized that Faramir was my favorite character.

But once I knew that Faramir wasn't dead, and didn't die, I think the saddest part was probably Theoden's death... or when Smeagol was completely taken ove by Gollum, or... or maybe "Well, I'm back"... just because that was the end.

[Something]

Gandalf`s fall is a sad moment in the book. :(

[Lefty Scaevola]

I am much into Greek tragedy mode.

In LoTR, it is when Denethor after fighting Sauron, strategy to strategy, army to army, and even telepathicly will to will (with greater strength that the head of the istari) for all his life, falls to despair and breaks just before his bleloved nation and is victorious and restored, and his charge fulfilled.

In SIL, it when Hurin, after bearing all torment for 28 years, finds out, never ther less, that Morgoth has still suceeded in using him as a tool.

[Lenya]

Two:
- death of Beleg
- when Eowyn tells Aragorn that she doesn't fear death, only a cage

[Minielin]

Not wholly sad, but at least a little tug on the heartstrings: when Finduilas falls out of love with Gwindor and in love with Turin. I still stick with Beleg's death being absolutely the saddest.

[inked]

I am not sure that my answer is in the sense you mean, but for me it was Sam's words to close the tale proper. In the pre-Silmarillion et alia days, the story was truly done, though one did have the appendices...BUT THE STORY WAS OVER AND IT WAS TOO SHORT! :( I still get the feeling when concluding a re-read!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

For me it is definitely when Frodo is finally back home in Bag End, and he realises that he can never go back to his life before the ring came to him. Oh, and the fact that Gollum never gets redeemed. :(

The first of those is, for me, one of the saddest, most beautiful, and truest thing about the Lord of the Rings; see the new quote from Frodo in my sig.

"It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them."

That is so beautiful, just thinking about it sometimes brings tears to my eyes.

*sniffle*

[inked]

For me it is definitely when Frodo is finally back home in Bag End, and he realises that he can never go back to his life before the ring came to him. Oh, and the fact that Gollum never gets redeemed. :(

BoP, somehow it escaped my notice that you think the failure of redemption for Gollum equals the sadness of Frodo's loss. It need not have been so for Gollum. And I have argued elsewhere that when Gandalf asks for three eagles to go look for Sam and Frodo, he was hoping for Gollum's redemption as well. I speak here of the text not the movie, OC. That was a moment of high hope and devastation, IMHO.

[Ezora]

I think the saddest moment is when Frodo tells Sam to go home when they are climbing the stairs near minus morgul, i almost cried!!! my second is when Borimier (i dont know how to spell his name...) died, i dont really like him in the movie, but it was still sad!!!

[Pytt]

yes, Frodo telling Sam to go is one of the saddest moments in the films. One of the things PJ did which I don't think is so bad. it creates a excitement in the movie. a nice move I think.

[Radagast The Brown]

yes, Frodo telling Sam to go is one of the saddest moments in the films. One of the things PJ did which I don't think is so bad. it creates a excitement in the movie. a nice move I think.I hated it. I didn't find it very... real, because I didn't think Frodo from the books would never do that to Sam, and because what's going to happen next was clear - Sam comes back, saves Frodo. I think Frodo looks kind of bad here, doesn't trust his friend and believes Gollum.

[Lefty Scaevola]

There may be other subtext there to the movie Frodo, he may have been more willing to sacrifice gollum than sam, which would be consistant with sending sam back. Recall that Frodo tried to leave sam behind at the Parth galen when he decided to go the Mordor alone.

[Elemmírë]

I think I'm going to have to change my original choice...

Finrod's death is still sad (obviously, since it depresses me at times, :p) but I don't think it's even nearly as tragically awful as Beleg's... :(

[Beregond]

I think it would be either when boromir dies or when all of the fellowship have to go their own ways at the end

[Lenya]

Not wholly sad, but at least a little tug on the heartstrings: when Finduilas falls out of love with Gwindor and in love with Turin. I still stick with Beleg's death being absolutely the saddest.

I forgot about that. That really is sad, in a different way. Can you imagine how Gwindor felt, after all his been through?

[Lenya]

I think I'm going to have to change my original choice...

Finrod's death is still sad (obviously, since it depresses me at times, :p) but I don't think it's even nearly as tragically awful as Beleg's... :(

I have to say this :evil: :
Does this mean you have finally realised that Beleg is beter than Finrod?

[Sister Golden Hair]

I have to say this :evil: :
Does this mean you have finally realised that Beleg is beter than Finrod?Hey, watch your tongue. :mad: :p

[Elemmírë]

I have to say this :evil: :
Does this mean you have finally realised that Beleg is beter than Finrod?

What SGH said. :p

No, it doesn't. I cannot comprehend the mindset which would make that irrational idea logical, but...

Finrod died to save a friend.

Beleg... was killed by a friend.

The sheer pointless waste of it makes it sadder. As in, I can see a light of hope in Finrod's (and combine that with the realisation that he was quickly released from Mandos), but not in Beleg's.

[edited] words keep on getting edited out of my posts! I'll put them in French since it won't work in English anyway: morte et hait. !!!

It might just be this stupid computer, though!

[Pytt]

I hated it. I didn't find it very... real, because I didn't think Frodo from the books would never do that to Sam, and because what's going to happen next was clear - Sam comes back, saves Frodo. I think Frodo looks kind of bad here, doesn't trust his friend and believes Gollum.

No, I see your point. First I was a bit angry about it myself, but after seen it some times, it isn't that bad. THough myself I am split about it. the moviepart of me thinks it is a nice move, but the tolkien part thinks it is rather stupid. but it is a sad moment, neverthless.

Your back for real Elemmire? :)

[ethuiliel]

I think I have to agree with those of you who say Beleg's death was the saddest. I had forgotten about Beleg, since it's been a while since I read Sil, but that was the saddest moment when I read it, much sadder than anything in the other books. To die at the hands of a friend! Or to unintentionally kill a friend! Either side of the situation is about as sad as it can get.

[Pytt]

Yeah, Beleg I too have forgotten. But I don't remember it as sad as when Sam thinks Frodo is dead, and leave him after Shelob(the books) I cried when they read that to me. But from the Sil, it have to be Beleg. but when I think about it, a lot of the things in that book are sad.

[ethuiliel]

But I don't remember it as sad as when Sam thinks Frodo is dead, and leave him after Shelob(the books) I cried when they read that to me. That part would probably have been the saddest for me too, except that I already knew Frodo would survive.

[Lenya]

So glad you agree about Beleg's death, It's just tragic and so dramatic. Especially if he was your favourite character and he died.

[Kellquenti]

As an avid Feanorian lover, The saddest moment for me was when Maedhros and Maglor finally fulfill their cursed oath and get two of the Silmarills back, only to find that all the fighting, kinslaying and the deaths of their father and brothers has been in vain ,that they cannot hold, let alone take the Silmarills back with them as they promised. Then Wracked with guilt and torment the once strong, eldest Maedhros kills himself, and the gentle Maglor wanders the shores alone in grief forever. Neither wanted anything to do with the oath in the first place .Loyalty to their father forced them into it. :(

[Lenya]

As an avid Feanorian lover, The saddest moment for me was when Maedhros and Maglor finally fulfill their cursed oath and get two of the Silmarills back, only to find that all the fighting, kinslaying and the deaths of their father and brothers has been in vain ,that they cannot hold, let alone take the Silmarills back with them as they promised. Then Wracked with guilt and torment the once strong, eldest Maedhros kills himself, and the gentle Maglor wanders the shores alone in grief forever. Neither wanted anything to do with the oath in the first place .Loyalty to their father forced them into it. :(

No way. They asked for it when they swore that oath.

[Kellquenti]

No way. They asked for it when they swore that oath.
I understand what you're sayng, but I don't think they had much of a choice.
Feanor was not an Elf to take no for an answer! :evil:
In Tolkien's notes he made reference to Feanor burning the ships at the Firth of Drengist, with one of his twin sons on board because he thought that he was going to betray him and sail backto rejoin his mother.
The Silmarills were his obsession and he could have killed any of his sons if they refused to take the oath or dare break it.
It's hard to believe it, but I still like all of them :)

[Lenya]

I understand what you're sayng, but I don't think they had much of a choice.
Feanor was not an Elf to take no for an answer! :evil:
In Tolkien's notes he made reference to Feanor burning the ships at the Firth of Drengist, with one of his twin sons on board because he thought that he was going to betray him and sail backto rejoin his mother.
The Silmarills were his obsession and he could have killed any of his sons if they refused to take the oath or dare break it.
It's hard to believe it, but I still like all of them :)

I did not know he had twin sons, or maybe I did and just couldn't remember. But in any case it is interesting to know (the burning thing I mean). That changes things a bit, but I remember from the whole oath swearing thing that they didn't exactly hesitate to do it.

[Kellquenti]

I did not know he had twin sons, or maybe I did and just couldn't remember. But in any case it is interesting to know (the burning thing I mean). That changes things a bit, but I remember from the whole oath swearing thing that they didn't exactly hesitate to do it.
Lenya, Thanks for your reply. Feanor had twin sons ,the last to be born of the seven, Amrod and Amras. I read the bit about the burning in the book 'Tolkien's, the Peoples of Middle Earth'. (no 12).
The reference is on pages 354 & 355.
As for not hesitating to swear the oath, Feanor was an excellent speaker and pesuader. He probably wound them up so much at the time they just did it!!
Then regretted it later!! :(

[Lenya]

Lenya, Thanks for your reply. Feanor had twin sons ,the last to be born of the seven, Amrod and Amras. I read the bit about the burning in the book 'Tolkien's, the Peoples of Middle Earth'. (no 12).
The reference is on pages 354 & 355.

Remember them, didn't know they were twins.

As for not hesitating to swear the oath, Feanor was an excellent speaker and pesuader. He probably wound them up so much at the time they just did it!!

That isn't really the kind of thing a loving father would do, but then again it meant a lot to him.

Then regretted it later!! :(

Totally.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

That isn't really the kind of thing a loving father would do, but then again it meant a lot to him.
Loving father? I thought you were talking about Fëanor!

[Lenya]

I was being sarcastic - I don't like Feanor.

[Kellquenti]

I was being sarcastic - I don't like Feanor.
I still defend all of the Feanorians! :) , yet I can understand where those of you don't. Sorry, I stand to be different! :evil: Perhaps that's 'cos I'm as obsessed as the rest of the Feanorians :D
Am I alone? or are there other supporters of the house of feanor!!? :evil:

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

I still defend all of the Feanorians! :) , yet I can understand where those of you don't. Sorry, I stand to be different! :evil: Perhaps that's 'cos I'm as obsessed as the rest of the Feanorians :D
Am I alone? or are there other supporters of the house of feanor!!? :evil:
saddest moment?

feanor's birth! :D

[Lenya]

Ha Ha! :D :D

[Kellquenti]

saddest moment?

feanor's birth! :D
That is so wicked :mad: !!! May all your spiderlings be sort of nice :)
Don't care Istill love the Feanorians :p

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

ok, true saddest moment - destruction of the entwives has to rank high up somewhere.

on a side note, what happens to ents and entwives when they die, do their spirits go to the gardens of Irmo in Aman?

[Lenya]

That might be a good assumption, I don't know.

[Kellquenti]

ok, true saddest moment - destruction of the entwives has to rank high up somewhere.

on a side note, what happens to ents and entwives when they die, do their spirits go to the gardens of Irmo in Aman?
We agree somewhere :D Perhaps Yavanna holds their spirits like Mandos does untill she thinks it's right to send them back? :confused:

[Este of Lorien]

Saddest moment? It's so difficult to choose. Some ideas:
-the destroying of the two Trees
-Feanor becoming evil
-the fall of Gondolin
-Turin killing Beleg
-Fingon and Finrod's death
-what happend to Maedhros and Maglor after they ragained the silmarils
-the story of Aegnor and Andreth
....stop me, please!

[Este of Lorien]

I still defend all of the Feanorians! :) , yet I can understand where those of you don't. Sorry, I stand to be different! :evil: Perhaps that's 'cos I'm as obsessed as the rest of the Feanorians :D
Am I alone? or are there other supporters of the house of feanor!!? :evil:


You're not alone :)

[Lenya]

Saddest moment? It's so difficult to choose. Some ideas:
-the destroying of the two Trees
-Feanor becoming evil
-the fall of Gondolin
-Turin killing Beleg
-Fingon and Finrod's death
-what happend to Maedhros and Maglor after they ragained the silmarils
-the story of Aegnor and Andreth
....stop me, please!

Turin killing Beleg is my saddest moment. And Turin's whole life is very sad, but that's not one moment.

[Lotesse]

In RotK in the book when Sam finds Frodo on a heap of rags all out of it and covered in whip-welts; in RotK the movie, when Sam's trying to cheer Frodo up a little by mentioning strawberries and the party tree, and Frodo can't remember anything familiar or comforting anymore..."I'm naked in the dark" etc. Both those moments had me crying a little bit.

[Beregond]

I think the saddest moment would have to be when The hobbits have to leae Aragorn in Gondor at thhe end of the ROTK.

[Lenya]

Oh I just remembered a very sad moment in LotR. Where Sam and Frodo are already in Mordor and Sam whatches over the sleepng Frodo. He looks up and sees one star shinging in the sky and he gets new hope for the world, even though they were sure to fail. The way Tolkien wrote it was just lovely. Very striking piece.

[EarthBound]

That's easy, the part that always makes me cry (the book, not the movie) is of course the end of things....when Frodo, Gandalf, & the last of the elves sails away and the three (3) companions travel home together.....breaks my heart….I’m only slightly ever consoled by the idea that Sam left to join him at the end of his days…..Tolkien does a good job of suggesting it, at least. Also, when Aragorn takes death and leaves the Queen to wander back to that mound in the forest to die…..Major Gut Wretch…..

[Lenya]

Ah yes. One forgets a lot of the things - a sign that I've read the book way too long ago. The way Arwen dies has quite a way of touching the heart. I really felt sorry for her.

[EarthBound]

Ah yes. One forgets a lot of the things - a sign that I've read the book way too long ago. The way Arwen dies has quite a way of touching the heart. I really felt sorry for her.

It seems much worse to me because Aragorn chose to die and leave her for 'political' reasons not just the health....still, I didn't like that he left her (died) but it does make the story more tragic and romantic....sigh :(

[Lenya]

I think he chose to die partly because he didn't want her to be burdened with an old & grumpy man and he didn't want her to remember him so weak.

[CrazySquirrel]

When Aragorn turned Eowyn down for that old great-aunt Arwen

[francod]

I would say when they leave the Bombidil's, if tom takes any interest in their journey he could have ended it right there. Instead he blows it off and lets the world be ravaged by these terrible wars.

[Rían]

*bump*

Was just re-reading this thread - amazing how JRRT can move us to tears ...

[Lenya]

:D He would have been so proud to read this I think.

[EarthBound]

:D He would have been so proud to read this I think.

Unlikely, he seemed to think people read to much into his stories......then again, I'd hope he would like the fact we appreciate his story telling.....he might at that.....it's just that he'd still think we were a bunch of loonies....and he'd be right, of course....he was Tolkien after all.

[Rían]

I think Lenya means he would have been proud to know his stories have moved many people to tears. I think that would mean a lot to a storyteller.

[Lenya]

Yip. Without the 'movement', a book's just not worth it.

[Lotesse]

Another awfully sad Tolkien moment is when Feanor, blind with his own grief and rage and fiery pride, burns up the swan-ships and leaves his homies-his followers- stranded, after how far they had come with him. That was so sad. I bet even Feanor regretted later what he had done.

[Voronwen]

Then suddenly fire burst from the Meneltarma, and there came a mighty wind and a tumult of the earth, and the sky reeled, and the hills slid, and Númenor went down into the sea, with all its children and its wives and its maidens and its ladies proud; and all its gardens and its halls and its towers, its tombs and its riches, and its jewels and its webs and its things painted and carven, and its laughter and its mirth and its music, its wisdom and its lore; they vanished for ever.

Alas! :(

[Noble Elf Lord]

Either the death of Beleg or Morwen. As for LotR, the list of names who would never return from the Pelennor fields. Especially Halbarad. :(

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

When Frodo tells Sam to "go home!" Oh wait, :eek:

Seriously though, I have a couple.

The Fifth Battle is one of the overall saddest chapters in the entire history. Even at the beginning, when there is still hope, I get chills because I know what's coming:Then Fingon looked towards Thangorodrim, and there was a dark cloud about it, and a black smoke went up; and he knew that the wrath of Morgoth was aroused, and that their challenge was accepted. A shadow of doubt fell upon Fingon's heart; and he looked eastwards, seeking if he might see with elven-sight the dust of Anfauglith rising beneath the hosts of Maedhros. He knew not that Maedhros was hindered in his setting-forth by the guile of Uldor the accursed, who deceived him with false warnings of assault from Angband.

But now a cry went up, passing up the wind from the south from vale to vale, and Elves and Men lifted their voices in wonder and joy. For unsummoned and unlocked for Turgon had opened the leaguer of Gondolin, and was come with an army ten thousand strong, with bright mail and long swords and spears like a forest. Then when Fingon heard afar the great trumpet of Turgon his brother, the shadow passed and his heart was uplifted, and he shouted aloud: 'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!' And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered crying: 'Auta i lómë! The night is passing!'
...

But now in the western battle Fingon and Turgon were assailed by a tide of foes thrice greater than all the force that was left to them. Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs, high-captain of Angband, was come; and he drove a dark wedge between the Elvenhosts, surrounding King Fingon, and thrusting Turgon and Húrin aside towards the Fen of Serech. Then he turned upon Fingon. That was a grim meeting. At last Fingon stood alone with his guard dead about him; and he fought with Gothmog, until another Balrog came behind and cast a thong of fire about him. Then Gothmog hewed him with his black axe, and a white flame sprang up from the helm of Fingon as it was cloven. Thus fell the High King of the Noldor; and they beat him into the dust with their maces, and his banner, blue and silver, they trod into the mire of his blood.

The field was lost; but still Húrin and Huor and the remnant of the house of Hador stood firm with Turgon of Gondolin, and the hosts of Morgoth could not yet win the Pass of Sirion. Then Húrin spoke to Turgon, saying: 'Go now, lord, while time is! For in you lives the last hope of the Eldar, and while Gondolin stands Morgoth shall still know fear in his heart.'

But Turgon answered: 'Not long now can Gondolin be hidden; and being discovered it must fall.'
Then Huor spoke and said: 'Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and from me a new star shall arise. Farewell!'

...

So it was that Turgon fought his way southward, until coming behind the guard of Húrin and Huor he passed down Sirion and escaped; and he vanished into the mountains and was hidden from the eyes of Morgoth. But the brothers drew the remnant of the Men of the house of Hador about them, and foot by foot they withdrew, until they came behind the Fen of Serech, and had the stream of Rivil before them. There they stood and gave way no more.

Then all the hosts of Angband swarmed against them, and they bridged the stream with their dead, and encircled the remnant of Hithlum as a gathering tide about a rock. There as the sun westered on the sixth day, and the shadow of Ered Wethrin grew dark, Huor fell pierced with a venomed arrow in his eye, and all the valiant Men of Hador were slain about him in a heap; and the Orcs hewed their heads and piled them as a mound of gold in the sunset.

Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Húrin cried: 'Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!' Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive, by the command of Morgoth, for the Orcs grappled him with their hands, which clung to him still though he hewed off their arms; and ever their numbers were renewed, until at last he fell buried beneath them. Then Gothmog bound him and dragged him to Angband with mockery.

Thus ended Nirnaeth Arnoediad, as the sun went down beyond the sea. Night fell in Hithlum, and there came a great storm of wind out of the West.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Also, as mentioned, the death of Morwen is incredibly sad, especially knowing the entire story of Hurin.
As darkness fell Húrin stumbled from the rock, and fell into a heavy sleep of grief. But in his sleep he heard the voice of Morwen lamenting, and often she spoke his name; and it seemed to him that her voice came out of Brethil. Therefore when he awoke with the coming of day he arose, and went back to the Brithiach; and passing along the eaves of Brethil he came at a time of night to the Crossings of Teiglin. The night-sentinels saw him, but they were filled with dread, for they thought that they saw a ghost out of some ancient battle-mound that walked with darkness about it; and therefore Húrin was not stayed, and he came at last to the place of the burning of Glaurung, and saw the tall stone standing near the brink of Cabed Naeramarth.

But Húrin did not look at the stone, for he knew what was written there; and his eyes had seen that he was not alone. Sitting in the shadow of the stone there was a woman, bent over her knees; and as Húrin stood there silent she cast back her tattered hood and lifted her face. Grey she was and old, but suddenly her eyes looked into his, and he knew her; for though they were wild and full of fear, that light still gleamed in them that long ago had earned for her the name Eledhwen, proudest and most beautiful of mortal women in the days of old.

'You come at last,' she said. 'I have waited too long.'

'It was a dark road. I have come as I could,' he answered.

'But you are too late,' said Morwen. 'They are lost.'

'I know it,' he said. 'But you are not.'

But Morwen said: 'Almost. I am spent I shall go with the sun. Now little time is left: if you know, tell me! How did she find him?'

But Húrin did not answer, and they sat beside the stone, and did not speak again; and when the sun went down Morwen sighed and clasped his hand, and was still; and Húrin knew that she had died. He looked down at her in the twilight and it seemed to him that the lines of grief and cruel hardship were smoothed away. 'She was not conquered,' he said; and he closed her eyes, and sat unmoving beside her as the night drew down. The waters of Cabed Naeramarth roared on, but he heard no sound, and he saw nothing, and felt nothing, for his heart was stone within him. But there came a chill wind that drove sharp rain into his face; and he was roused, and anger rose in him like smoke, mastering reason, so that all his desire was to seek vengeance for his wrongs and for the wrongs of his kin, accusing in his anguish all those who ever had dealings with them. Then he rose up, and he made a grave for Morwen above Cabed Naeramarth on the west side of the stone; and upon it he cut these words: Here lies also Morwen Eledhwen.

It is told that a seer and harp-player of Brethil named Glirhuin made a song, saying that the Stone of the Hapless should not be defiled by Morgoth nor ever thrown down, not though the sea should drown all the land; as after indeed befell, and still Tol Morwen stands alone in the water beyond the new coasts that were made in the days of the wrath of the Valar. But Húrin does not lie there, for his doom drove him on, and the Shadow still followed him.

[ASmileThatExplodes]

Death of Fingolfin, for sure. I normally never cry when reading a book, watching a movie, etc., but the tears were dripping off my chin, when I read thÃ*t scene in the Silmarillion. Also the death of Fingon is, indeed, very sad. Those goddamned Orcs! I always wonder, if the Elves buried Fingon? I WILL cry, if they didn't. :(
The departure of Elrond is also very sad, but beautiful. He will see his wife again, hallelujah! After quite a long time!