Annabel Lee=Luthien?

[trolls' bane]

I recently had to memorize Edgar Allan Poe's poem "Annabel Lee" for English class. When I read it, it reminded me so much of "The Lay of Leithian." Is that where tolkien got the idea for the tale of Beren and Luthien?

[Shadowfax]

Nope. Not that I know of. Tolkien modelled Luthien after his wife Edith, and Beren after himself. I have never heard that he was influenced by Poe. Now I'll have to read that poem sometime.:)

[trolls' bane]

Now I'll have to read that poem sometime.

Don't expect me to write down a poem that long for you.;) :D

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by trolls' bane
Don't expect me to write down a poem that long for you.;) :D Hey, I never asked you to post it here; I'm perfectly able to find it myself!:p

[Finrod Felagund]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
Nope. Not that I know of. Tolkien modelled Luthien after his wife Edith, and Beren after himself. I have never heard that he was influenced by Poe. Now I'll have to read that poem sometime.:)

Well, actually, he just saw Edith as his Luthien, I don't believe they were modelled after him and her.

[brownjenkins]

there's certainly a touch of similarity, and obviously tolkien was very well-read... it may have been a part of what helped him develop his ideas... though he was also a known fan of the greek, roman and norse classics... and many of these themes originated from them

[Dúnedain]

I assume he was a fan of History as well, because a lot of his key characters of people resemble many different Historical peoples as well...

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
I assume he was a fan of History as well, because a lot of his key characters of people resemble many different Historical peoples as well... Can you elaborate on that?

[Glorfindel_of_Gondolin]

Well, I will.

Tolkien was a fan of language, and much of his Middle Earth and its peoples can find bases in Nordic and Germanic myths. A fact, I am sure, most already know.

I think the contention that is being made, that of a reference to Poe, is incorrect. He took sweeping ideas from history, and got whole names and places right out of the history books, but he still wrote his own story. His characters where his own.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Above, by "he", read Tolkien.

[Glorfindel_of_Gondolin]

Hey, Thanks for the clarification, Fenir!

Saves me doing it :)

[Finmandos12]

As someone stated, Beren and Luthien is based on Tolkien's courtship of his wife. Her parents were Protestant and didn't like the fact that JRR was Catholic, so when he asked permission to court her, they said they would only allow it if there was no contact between JRR and Edith for several years (I think three). The religious difference between JRR and his wife is like the Elf-Man difference between Beren and Luthien. And the several year wait seemed to be an impossible task, just as getting the Silmaril from Angband seemed to be impossible.

[Count Comfect]

I think it is fairly clear that Tolkien does not appear to have based Luthien/Beren on Annabel Lee. But there are still significant parallels - only in the opposite way, almost (guy with dead girl, not girl with dead guy).

[Beren3000]

I strongly agree with you, Finmandos12. However, I think there is another reason why Tolkien made Luthien an elf and not a human. Before I explain my reason, let me first bring something to your notice: in all three elf-man marriages, the elf was always the woman. (Beren and Luthien, Tuor and Celebrindal, Aragorn and Arwen)
So, in my point of view, Tolkien regarded women as beautiful and exalted above others. So when a marriage happens a woman has to "descend" to the level of the man and grant him the honor of marrying her (bear with me here). In the same way the elven women gave up immortality to be with their lovers: they descended to the level of humans and granted them an honor. It couldn't happen the other way round: an elf male marrying a human woman. Because the male would then be "descending" which (according to Tolkien) is unthinkable.
Did I make sense? Or was that too incoherent? I hope not!
Tell me what you think!

[Comic Book Guy]

This exact question is dealt with in JRR's biography by Carpenter. Finmando12 has it all explained I think. Interestingly enough, Edith was also a lot older than JRRT.