Recycle Elvish settlements in 4th Age?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

What do you think happened to the elven enclaves after they left (particularly Rivendell and the Grey Havens). In real earth history places like ancient Rome were mined by later inhabitants while Mayan cities were largely overgrown. And with an expanding mannish population (and for a while hobbits) wouldn't Rivendell especially been an attractive already made and rather comfy place, especially for the northern Dunedain who would obviously have been familiar with it? Or would it have been too steeped with elvish "memories" etc.? I believe there is speculation that Aragorn's rangers and their people had settlements in the angle, fairly close to Rivendell and the line of the Kings was always raised in Rivendell.
The Grey Havens would also seem to be very well situated for a settlement, using the sea for fishing and to avoid going through The Shire would allow quick contact with Gondor and a spur road could be linked to the Greenway.

[Dúnedain]

Well, during Aragorn's reign as King, there were still Elves living in Rivendell, Elladan and Elrohir were, as well as Celeborn, amongst others. Afterwards, who knows, but I would suspect that into the 4th age it was either forgotten or the Dúnedain lived there as it would have been an important place in their own history as well...

[Lefty Scaevola]

Both were strategic locations: Rivendell controls the west end of the high pass; Mithlond is a great harbor far up the Lhun estuary alowing vessel to dock many miles inland into Eriador from the main coast (similar but less strategic than Tharbad on the Gwaltho. If there is any population kindgdoms with some mecantile or military interests, they (Including the Tharbad site) will be occupied by someone.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Good point about Tharbad. It would have considerable value as a possible center for resettlement, a "safe harbor" in case of storms, etc. traveling from Mithlond to Pelargir, and as a way of keeping an eye on possible Dunlending activities in west Enedwaith and Minhriath.

Also, might not Amon Sul be rebuilt as another way of controlling security and providing a stopover for travelers, like Bree, on the East Road, perhaps with surplus Beornings or Bree population after some time of relative peace in the north.

[Nurvingiel]

I got the impression that hardly anyone knew where Rivendell was, unless they were personally summoned there. At least Men, apart from the Dunedain, didn't know where it was. Boromir had to search for a long time to find it.

Maybe this would change under Aragorn's rule.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
I got the impression that hardly anyone knew where Rivendell was, unless they were personally summoned there. At least Men, apart from the Dunedain, didn't know where it was. Boromir had to search for a long time to find it.

Maybe this would change under Aragorn's rule.
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In The Hobbit Rivendell is depicted as very hard to find, but I think, haven't read it in a while, in LOTR that aspect isn't stressed.

Also, given that Arwen and Aragorn's children have obvious connections to Rivendell you could speculate that one of the daughters led some of the Dunedain (are the daughters names given somewhere- perhaps in the HoMe books?) and settled in Rivendell and the other in Annuminas or the Grey Havens. Given that Cirdan was there for thousands of years the infrastructure should have been rather extensive. There could even have been a Mithlond-Annuminas relationship somewhat like ancient Athens and Piraeus.

[luinilwen]

maybe the dunedain continued to maintain rivendell and charged admittance to the tourists, sort of like gracelands :D

"this is the hall were all the great feasts were held... this is the hallowed throne of elrond... and this is arwen's room...."

sorry just being silly...

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Luinilwen
maybe the dunedain continued to maintain rivendell and charged admittance to the tourists, sort of like gracelands
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Aragorn to Frodo on the Field of Cormallen:

Aragorn: "Hey Frodo, where ya' goin'?"

Frodo: I'm goin' to Rivendellworld!":D

(Infamous commercial by a football player after an American Superbowl):p

P. S.: ESPN used to air Australian Rules football games. I'd like the network to start the broadcasts again. They were quite entertaining, sort of a combination of soccer and American football. The players must be in fantastic condition with the virtual nonstop activity. I find soccer boring since about 99% of the action seems meaningless and there's the unnatural nonuse of hands by field players.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin

P. S.: ESPN used to air Australian Rules football games. I'd like the network to start the broadcasts again. They were quite entertaining, sort of a combination of soccer and American football. The players must be in fantastic condition with the virtual nonstop activity. I find soccer boring since about 99% of the action seems meaningless and there's the unnatural nonuse of hands by field players.

Sorry to but in here but I can't resist. Yes, Australian Rules is the best! It's non-stop action for the whole game. I hope they broadcast it in your area soon, because it is like a religion down here, and we want the rest of the world to know. Unfortunately my team hasn't won the Grand Final for forty years, but we're still waiting. Go the Cats!

[Valandil]

We're way OT, but is that like what we call 'rugby' around here?

[cassiopeia]

I don't think so. We call it AFL or Australian Rules. We have rugby here, but it's a different game.

[luinilwen]

well, i guess all of our footy is "Australian Rules" (with the exception of soccer).

i guess when people say "football" they mean AFL (which is most popular in melbourne and adelaide), "rugby" refers to Rugby Union (which is the best to watch - god those men are beefcakes!), and "league" refers to NRL, which is also rugby, only with slightly different rules, i think...

is there any sport mentioned at all in tolkien? i mean, i guess there were more important issues at hand, but HP always managed to get in a few games of quidditch whilst saving the world from voldemort... (hehe don't hurt me!)

[cassiopeia]

Golf is mentioned, but I can't think of any other sport at the moment.

[luinilwen]

fencing maybe?

btw, cassiopeia, i LOVE your avatar! :D

[azalea]

*ahem* ;) Please keep to the topic, everyone. :)

[matthew]

Finally. all that rugby crap was getting REALLY boring. I dont think rivendell would have been resettled.

[Thorin II]

Without the power of the Elves to maintain it, I was always under the impression Rivendell would fall to the elements. By the time the Elves left, I wouldn't think anyone else would live there (unless they built on top of the ruins).

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Granted, Rivendell was out of the way, but it could have been a great Fourth Age resort, like the Poconos in Pennsylvania or Lake Tahoe.:cool:

But what about Mithlond and its harbor? And eventually Thranduil's place for an expanding mannish population? Comfortable digs with water connections to Esgaroth.